The Great Crusade, 66 years on.

[AF6872]

M1 Garand was one of the greatest weapons made and probably won WW-II. I loved it even though it was heavy. Wish I had one now as they were accurate to a fault way down range or a 1903 Springfield which we used for drill (even more accurate) and got to fire on the range a couple of times. As one of my instructors said "You could shoot through a tree with an M1 and then beat him to death if you ran out of ammo". And where do we get these men and now women? Every generation they seem to appear and step foward although fewer and fewer as time goes on. When they no longer step up to serve God Save America.

 

[AF6872]

SPROG & CHOCKSTOCK:

Not to be argumentative but show me where in this world it has been better over the past three hundred years. Faults; Yes but who has done it better over these past three hundred years and consistently worked to repaired their faults?

I am paraphrasing one man who once said and I can't quote because I don't remember who it was: If today you take down every immigration border barrier in the world look to which countries everyone in the world wants to immigrate too. Guess who is on top of the list. Hint, It isn't Nigeria, Mexico, Britain, France, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Lithuania or Montenegro. Ok OK maybe Monaco.

 

[BigJim]

"It's comments like the one this young man made that make me wonder what is being taught kids today.

Patriotism is not taught.
Apologizing for being an American is in vogue."

.

I'm a USMA appointee counting the days till R-Day.

Too often in our history class we focus on the villains rather than the heros. This was a time of TRULY GREAT AMERICANS, but instead we only hear of Hitler and Joseph Goebbels. I know it is important to understand evil, but we should also learn of honor and duty. Maybe then my decision to attend West Point would not be met with so many shocked faces.

I do not mean to sound self-righteous. I understand that at 18 years old I can never truly comprehend the gravity of the situation surrounding D-Day. However, I try to learn as much as I can about these great Americans, and Eisenhower's speech does give me chills (thanks for posting it). I can only hope to be half the man that any of these heros represents.

 

[sprog]

SPROG & CHOCKSTOCK:

Not to be argumentative but show me where in this world it has been better over the past three hundred years.
.

I think you need to re-read my posts. I only said that it is acceptable to point out faults in American history, as society can hopefully learn from mistakes as well as successes. I did not say that you should only concentrate on the faults. We certainly have a lot to be proud of in our history as well. Our victory in WWII is just one of those things.

This doesn't mean, however, that we can't recognize and learn from our mistakes. I don't want to start pointing out faults in our history (as they are well known), so I won't go down the road of picking examples of where things were better in other places over the last three centuries. Also, I won't go listing the many areas where the US has been on top over the years. Suffice it to say, we have made mistakes as well as triumphs, and it is not unpatriotic to recognize where we went wrong, and note where we can do better.

 

[Zaphod]

No matter what happens, Amerca never gets to win anymore.

We recall with all due reverence the incredible sacrifices made by thousands of young men, and it devolves into, "Well, you have to remember that blacks were SEGREGATED back then, so we weren't all THAT great!"

I'm going to bow out of here before I start saying what I REALLY feel about people who insist on concentrating on the 3% of America's history which is bad and IGNORE the 97% of our history that have made use the envy and the last great hope of the rest of the world.

Zaphod fu**ing OUT!

 

[scoutpilot]

No matter what happens, Amerca never gets to win anymore.

We recall with all due reverence the incredible sacrifices made by thousands of young men, and it devolves into, "Well, you have to remember that blacks were SEGREGATED back then, so we weren't all THAT great!"

I'm going to bow out of here before I start saying what I REALLY feel about people who insist on concentrating on the 3% of America's history which is bad and IGNORE the 97% of our history that have made use the envy and the last great hope of the rest of the world.

Zaphod fu**ing OUT!

Agreed.

What can you say, brother? It's how kids are taught these days: never make a definitive declaration, but rather caveat everything with a "not everyone got the best deal possible so we should all be ashamed" statement.

I call it "NPR Syndrome," because it's a favorite technique of their brand of radio punditry.

You know the drill...never miss an excuse to apologize for imperfection. And certainly don't let your myopic, 18-year-old perspective prevent you from making grand statements about the failures of our miserable country.

 

[sprog]

Agreed.

What can you say, brother? It's how kids are taught these days: never make a definitive declaration, but rather caveat everything with a "not everyone got the best deal possible so we should all be ashamed" statement.

.

I, for one, was not suggesting that America be ashamed of its successes. There are large failures, however, which cannot be ignored. The fact that it took a civil war to bring about the end of slavery, and the institutionalized apartheid that existed in the American South until the 1960s are examples of these shortcomings. These faults are more than not everyone getting the "best deal possbile," but I agree with you that it should not cloud the celebration of our successess. The victory in WWII is something we should be proud of, both for our own nation, and for the impact that the victory had in saving Western Europe and the Pacific Rim.

Way off topic, but since it was mentioned:

I am one to be wary of "definitive declarations." When we are talking about taking sides on an issue, there very rarely is a position that doesn't have a weakness. And usually when dealing with opinions, there isn't an argument that can't be countered. Law school taught me to appreciate nuance, and to always look for a distinguishing feature. Nuance is, obviously, something that is thrown away with difinitive and broad generalizations, and that is problematic. I don't like broad generalizations because they fail to appreciate how sophisticated an issue actually is. They are too simple (for the most part) to be useful, and don't recognize that there are often exceptions to the rule. Thus, I honestly think it's a value in education to be able to appreciate nuance (e.g. understand caveats), and to not hold a position as iron clad, even if that position is full of holes. Keep in mind that I'm limiting my opinion on this to academic discourse and other areas where there is ample time to forge an educated opinion on an issue.

 

[Zaphod]

There are large failures, however, which cannot be ignored.

So instead, we'll go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about them because it makes us look SO much smarter than these old goats who fought and died so we could pass judgement upon them.

 

[sprog]

because it makes us look SO much smarter than these old goats who fought and died so we could pass judgement upon them.

Smart enough to know that there is only one "e" in "judgment."

 

[Zaphod]

Wow. I feel SO horrible!

Thanks for proving me correct, though. If that's the best retort you can come back with...

 

[mom3boys]

If I find a magic lamp and get one wish, it would be for real names of some of these cadet candidates to pass along to cadre, to make sure they get all the AI in history during beast that they deserve...oops, I mean need.

 

[sprog]

Wow. I feel SO horrible!

Thanks for proving me correct, though. If that's the best retort you can come back with...

Interesting jump in logic, Zaphod. I point out a spelling error, and you conclude that it "proves you correct" that we, as Americans, should not recognize the problem areas in our history. I don't think so. The only thing proven here, is that you are unable to spell the word "judgment" correctly.

 

[scoutpilot]

Like I said before...I get enough teenage wisdom on this forum to last a lifetime.

 

[sprog]

Like I said before...I get enough teenage wisdom on this forum to last a lifetime.

If you're talking about me, you might be interested to know I'm a VMI alumnus and former USAF officer. I haven't been a teenager since 1997. Am I qualified to have an opinion by your standards?

 

[raimius]

America--the best flawed country out there!
Can that end the rants?

 

[scoutpilot]

Smart enough to know that there is only one "e" in "judgment."

Nuance is, obviously, something that is thrown away with difinitive and broad generalizations, and that is problematic.

Says the guy who doesn't know there are two e's in "definitive," huh?

Nice glass house you have there.


And no, the teenage comment wasn't directed at you. I didn't figure there to be many teenagers out there who can refer to their law school experiences.

 

[AF6872]

sprog:

We can always point to our prior faults and logically discuss them. We don't have to wallow in them every day or self flagellate forever over past discretions. If we go down that road Italy, Greece and Great Britain among others owe the world some great reperations. Let's concentrate on today and what the world is now. I used to know some USAF Officers. 1997?? Young Puppy!! Just a joke!!!!!!

 

[sprog]

Says the guy who doesn't know there are two e's in "definitive," huh?

Nice glass house you have there.


And no, the teenage comment wasn't directed at you. I didn't figure there to be many teenagers out there who can refer to their law school experiences.

Touche. You have sufficiently embarrassed me.

But alas, your post is not free of a grammatical problem. One does not make a plural by using an apostrophe. Thus, your statement of two "e's" is incorrect.

You can join Zaphod and I in remedial English.

 

[Zaphod]

If you're talking about me, you might be interested to know I'm a VMI alumnus and former USAF officer. I haven't been a teenager since 1997. Am I qualified to have an opinion by your standards?

AH! NOW I see the problem.

 

[Zaphod]

You can join Zaphod and I in remedial English.

It is, after all and strictly speaking, my second language.

ETA: And it would be "Zaphod and me", IIRC....