The Military Prep School Scam

Christcorp said:
And before anyone gets into the: "The academies are here to train officers, not develop athletes"; that's a crock of shiite and we all know it. The same reason the academies like High School Varsity Athletes; (NO, IT'S NOT TO DEVELOP THEM INTO D1 ATHLETES), it's because the military is the "Ultimate TEAM" environment. Where team work, working towards common goals, etc... are intrinsic in an athlete, so does competitive athletics develop cadets.
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What about intramural sports? You could argue that they provide equally team-oriented atmosphere. Or more importantly, spending time with and developing relationships and teamwork with your companymates. You can ask any cadet at West Point about their opinion concerning varsity cadets (corp-squad athletes) and non-varsity cadets. Virtually all will probably tell you there is a great divide and many perceive corp-squad cadets to receive preferential/special treatment or that there is a double standard (are such claims baseless? try asking other cadets and getting some insider info - they probably have better stories than I do).

Another thing that bothers me about corp-squad is that the plebes on the teams are allowed to "fall out" and go on a first-name basis with the upperclassmen. But these things tend to leave the football and lacrosse fields and follow corp-squad athletes out into the real world. So, you could, hypothetically, not saying that this ever happened, have one plebe at a table falling out and joking around with a firstie at the lunch table while the other plebes sit there awkwardly.

Sure, not all varsity athletes may be disconnected and/or disinterested in their companies and company activities. No one denies that they lead a challenging schedule balancing practice and school. But in general they seem to be either unable or unwilling to spend time with their companymates. There is such a huge focus here on varsity sports and the school always seems to emphasize their achievements. Its ironic that, even though these wins should provide cadets something to cheer for and unite behind, it seems to divide cadets into a majority and minority. Any other cadet here seen throngs of us walking to the tennis courts to go cheer on the tennis team? I haven't. Sometimes seems to me that we don't have our priorities straight. They have access to things that other cadets do not have and more importantly, their schedules sometimes prevent them from attending events that are meant to bind us together as future leaders and fellow cadets. Could you believe that a varsity game takes precedence over a class function like YWW?? Well, you better believe it because I know it happened to one of my varsity athlete friends and he and his entire team missed that class event.

Or, be so busy with team practices and games that as a yuk, you cannot even physically be there for your plebe. Requiring the next yuk to step up and take charge of and be responsible for two plebes. Probably gives that yuk more opportunities to develop as a leader but what about that corp-squad athlete? Doesn't matter, he helped put the team put the W on the board.

Or, be exempt from certain events during summer training like Buckner because they need to go prepare for the next season. Wow! I know a lot of cadets get cynical about the training we get during Buckner but you still learn some important Army skills. But I guess winning our next basketball game is more important than making sure every future Army leader learns something from what is virtually the only training opportunity some cadets may get the entire year.

I know there is only one solution...Let's get rid of D-1 sports completely! And use all that money and time on, I don't know, say, making breakfast more edible. Doing something that benefits the student body as a whole and truly puts the interests of the taxpayer first - making cadets the best officers that our soldiers and their families deserve.
 
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Chockstock said:
Virtually all will probably tell you there is a great divide and many perceive corp-squad cadets to receive preferential/special treatment or that there is a double standard (are such claims baseless? try asking other cadets and getting some insider info - they probably have better stories than I do).
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While I didn't always like the schedules some teams, like the football team, had at the Coast Guard Academy, I can tell you the "divide" wasn't as pronounced as I have heard it is at the D-1 academies. I'm guessing the same is true at USMMA.

I don't think the "ultimate team" feel isn't there, I know varsity teams are close, but the fanfare surrounding the teams at CGA (that COULD go to their heads) this isn't there.

That of course, is D-3. No less of an officer is produced at a D-3 academy than at a D-1 academy.
 
I'm not going to comment on all your points about IC athletes and non at the academy. You make valid points. But that's the same with any group/click. Others may not get all the same bonus' like IC's get, but it can be understood. The camaraderie in that level of athletics is extremely important. Hence, the reason for eating together, first name basis, etc. But you do make points.

But you had a question about "Intramural sports". If you're talking about at the academy, then no, there is no comparison. Intramural sports at the academy usually only lasts a couple of weeks at a time. It's more for physical activities, release stress, etc... (Think of recess in elementary school). It does provide a chance to possibly hang out and get to know a few individuals you normally wouldn't get to; but that's not that many. And varsity (IC) sports at the college level affects a lot more than just the players on the team. If it didn't, then on saturday during the football game, all the cadets in the stands would simply just be sitting there. But they aren't. Maybe not every cadet is into the game, but the majority are. My season tickets are on the 50 yard line right next to the cadets and the majority do in fact get into it. And that is contageous. And it carries over to the TZO.

But this thread is about the Prep School Scam of using the prep school as a farm club, red-shirt year for athletes. For bringing in athletes who's skills are better than the average academy applicant, but their resume/grades/test scores/etc. aren't. And that more qualified individuals aren't being admitted because of these inferior applicants. Well, I think plenty has been said on this. The prep school is made up of many different individuals who, for iindividual reasons, show the potential to become excellent officers; but need some assistance. Yes, there are athletes. There's also minorities and other individuals who show great promise but didn't have the same opportunities to succeed on their own where they grew up. There's enlisted who have been out of the academic setting for a few years and need a path to get "Back into the school mode". But there's no argument that some athletes come from the prep school. The majority of the freshman class of recruits aren't from the prep school however. Most are individuals who got into the academy directly; and had the competitive grades and application to beat out their competition for nominations and an appointment. This forum has shown a LOT of 3.8-4.0 gpa, 30 ACT, etc. recruited athletes who received direct appointments.

Many people stereotype athletes. They think they are all inferior academically. That's simply not true. And it seems OK if an individual excels past their peers in their strengths; e.g. Eagle Scout vs other boy scout; Billy Mitchell vs other CAP members; IB/AP students vs normal classes; and so on. These individuals receive and are EXPECTED to receive additional consideration on their applications. Yet, a superior athlete, team captain, all-state, etc... isn't expected or suppose to receive any additional consideration for their above average achievements. Einstein was correct with his law of relativity. It all depends on how you look at it
 
Nothing like being on the CGA JV soccer team, and heading up to Newport, R.I., to play the NAPS soccer team, only to realize what it's like to put a DIII JV team against a bunch of DI soccer players "in hold". I will just say the scoring was fairly lopsided.
 
Christcorp said:
These individuals receive and are EXPECTED to receive additional consideration on their applications. Yet, a superior athlete, team captain, all-state, etc... isn't expected or suppose to receive any additional consideration for their above average achievements. Einstein was correct with his law of relativity. It all depends on how you look at it
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I'm likely confused here, because I may be mis-reading this. Superior academic students who can't pass the physically requirements aren't put in holding for a year at a school 100% supported by the taxpayer. How many people go to NAPS who weren't ready for the academics AND weren't athletes?

I could understand your point if there was an equivalent for brainiacs looking for a work-out program, and going to school for a year to do that. But that doesn't exist. And brainiacs don't sell tickets in stadiums.

We don't have threads "Commander-in-Chief's trophy for Academic Olympics... get your tickets now, and tailgate."
 
LineInTheSand said:
I'm likely confused here, because I may be mis-reading this. Superior academic students who can't pass the physically requirements aren't put in holding for a year at a school 100% supported by the taxpayer. How many people go to NAPS who weren't ready for the academics AND weren't athletes?

I could understand your point if there was an equivalent for brainiacs looking for a work-out program, and going to school for a year to do that. But that doesn't exist. And brainiacs don't sell tickets in stadiums.

We don't have threads "Commander-in-Chief's trophy for Academic Olympics... get your tickets now, and tailgate."
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To the same extent, I would agree. But I have seen quite a few who had the academics off the charts, and their physical fitness was weak; and the academy requested and allowed them to retake their CFA. This is something totally at the discretion of the academy. But you are correct. There isn't a 6 month prep-school designed to get you physically fit. Maybe, that's because they believe the individual has complete control over. Compared to academics where you are mainly dependent on your teachers, parents, etc... If you could learn and educate yourself totally on your own, you wouldn't need any teachers. So you're sort of at a disadvantage if you have a crappy school and teachers. Fitness on the other hand is something that is generally free, simple to understand, and the individual has most of the control.

like I said though, I have seen where the academies would allow individuals with failing CFA scores to retake. I've also seen individuals who had NO organized sports, varsity, etc... receive appointments. So I believe that the brainiacs get some preference too.
 
LineInTheSand said:
I'm likely confused here, because I may be mis-reading this. Superior academic students who can't pass the physically requirements aren't put in holding for a year at a school 100% supported by the taxpayer. How many people go to NAPS who weren't ready for the academics AND weren't athletes?
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A possible explanation - The purpose of programs such as Prep School, Diversity Outreach, and etc is to meet the class composition goal. According to West Point Board of Visitors June 2012 meeting notes, the class composition goal is 30% > scholars, 25% > leaders, and 18 to 23% Athletes. The notes doesn't clearly define who qualifies as an "Athlete." Just of discussion purposes, let us say NCAA Div I level. If we assume there are enough scholar applicants to meet the 30% goal, there is no need for a program to assist getting scholars into West Point.
 
I doubt many are questioning the value of another year of academic prep for otherwise well qualified candidates. The "Scam" is when a fully qualified candidate is sent to NAPS because they already have a running back, midfielder, or point guard on the roster.
 
osdad said:
I doubt many are questioning the value of another year of academic prep for otherwise well qualified candidates. The "Scam" is when a fully qualified candidate is sent to NAPS because they already have a running back, midfielder, or point guard on the roster.
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+1 :thumb:
 
osdad said:
I doubt many are questioning the value of another year of academic prep for otherwise well qualified candidates. The "Scam" is when a fully qualified candidate is sent to NAPS because they already have a running back, midfielder, or point guard on the roster.
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I'm not going to guess what all the academies do. Or even every class the air force has sent through the prep schools. But in my experience, I haven't seen any 3.8-4.0 gpa; 30+ ACT; 2100+ SAT applicants attending the prep school. Like I said, the majority of recruited athletes in the freshman class at air force, are direct entries.

No problem debating the fact that some extremely qualified applicants aren't receiving an appointment and a less qualified individual is receiving one. No problem debating that some of those less qualified are coming from the prep school and are athletes. But I really don't know of any prep-schoolers coming to the academy, who were kick a$s applicants for the academy and wound up at the prep school. All the preppers I've known or been exposed to, had some deficiency that while they may have met the MINIMUM standards for the academy, weren't enough to have a straight direct appointment; but potential was seen in the individual. And yes, other factors did play in it like athletics, race, minority status, etc.
 
Christcorp said:
All the preppers I've known or been exposed to, had some deficiency that while they may have met the MINIMUM standards for the academy, weren't enough to have a straight direct appointment; but potential was seen in the individual.
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If that's the case, from a current candidate's standpoint that receives a QNS.
Does that mean there was lesser potential seen?
Or is it because slots have been assigned to preppers so there's less spots available for current candidates that get in directly from HS?
With a QNS and no Falcon scholarship, is it " try your luck again next year?"
 
icarus said:
If that's the case, from a current candidate's standpoint that receives a QNS.
Does that mean there was lesser potential seen?
Or is it because slots have been assigned to preppers so there's less spots available for current candidates that get in directly from HS?
With a QNS and no Falcon scholarship, is it " try your luck again next year?"
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Another misnomer is: Too many people think that if you attend the prep-school, that you AUTOMATICALLY receive an appointment to the academy the next year. I don't have the actual numbers on me, but that is definitely not true. Plenty of individuals attend the prep-school and don't get an appointment. Including athletes.

Remember; the prep-school and the academy are 2 totally different places. Yes, they are both on the same military installation, but they aren't the same school. When you go to the prep-school, you have to APPLY AGAIN the next year. You have to receive a NEW NOMINATION AGAIN the next year. You COMPETE AGAIN with all the new applicants the next year. People really need to stop thinking: "If you go to the prep-school, you're automatically going to the academy". That's simply not true. Do you have an edge/advantage over the NEXT year's applicants? A little; yes. The air force saw potential in you and they've invested in you at the prep-school. But in no way are you assured an appointment. They may very well realize that the potential they saw, was misguided. You may not be able to handle the academics or military lifestyle and you decide to quit. There are so many variables.

According to the academy prep-school fact sheet; approximately 240 students attend the prep-school at the academy each year. Approximately 75% receive an appointment. (That number has actually gone DOWN the last couple years). 50% of the class is minorities. 15% are women. 20% are prior enlisted. So, unless you happen to be a Black, Female, Prior Enlisted, Track Star; at the most, only about 15% of the prep-school can be argued is for athletes.

If you recall any of my past posts on "Diversity", I mentioned how it more than just race. And that the prep-school was also about potential when a lack of opportunities arises for the individual. In the current prep-school class, the basic stats of the students are: 31% of candidates are first generation college students, 21% percent come from single parent households and 22% percent are prior-enlisted. Simply pointing out that diversity and potential is a lot more than just athletes. These 3 attributes I just mentioned for the 2013 class make up 75% of the class. That doesn't even take into consideration all other attributes. It's more than just athletes.
 
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Christcorp said:
According to the academy prep-school fact sheet; approximately 240 students attend the prep-school at the academy each year. Approximately 75% receive an appointment. (That number has actually gone DOWN the last couple years).
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75% of what number?
Of the 240 that START the prep school each year how many COMPLETE the program? Of the number that complete the program how many CHOOSE to attend the SA? Of THAT number....how many receive appointments?
 
Christcorp said:
Another misnomer is: Too many people think that if you attend the prep-school, that you AUTOMATICALLY receive an appointment to the academy the next year. I don't have the actual numbers on me, but that is definitely not true. Plenty of individuals attend the prep-school and don't get an appointment. Including athletes.

Remember; the prep-school and the academy are 2 totally different places. Yes, they are both on the same military installation, but they aren't the same school. When you go to the prep-school, you have to APPLY AGAIN the next year. You have to receive a NEW NOMINATION AGAIN the next year. You COMPETE AGAIN with all the new applicants the next year. People really need to stop thinking: "If you go to the prep-school, you're automatically going to the academy". That's simply not true. Do you have an edge/advantage over the NEXT year's applicants? A little; yes. The air force saw potential in you and they've invested in you at the prep-school. But in no way are you assured an appointment. They may very well realize that the potential they saw, was misguided. You may not be able to handle the academics or military lifestyle and you decide to quit. There are so many variables.

According to the academy prep-school fact sheet; approximately 240 students attend the prep-school at the academy each year. Approximately 75% receive an appointment. (That number has actually gone DOWN the last couple years). 50% of the class is minorities. 15% are women. 20% are prior enlisted. So, unless you happen to be a Black, Female, Prior Enlisted, Track Star; at the most, only about 15% of the prep-school can be argued is for athletes.

If you recall any of my past posts on "Diversity", I mentioned how it more than just race. And that the prep-school was also about potential when a lack of opportunities arises for the individual. In the current prep-school class, the basic stats of the students are: 31% of candidates are first generation college students, 21% percent come from single parent households and 22% percent are prior-enlisted. Simply pointing out that diversity and potential is a lot more than just athletes. These 3 attributes I just mentioned for the 2013 class make up 75% of the class. That doesn't even take into consideration all other attributes. It's more than just athletes.
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During BCT last year, DS's squadron had preppers garnering all the top basic honors. By the end of the first semester, a couple have outprocessed and a couple more on academic probation. Preppers may have an advantage going into BCT because they've had a year to be "prepared" for academy life but they still have to keep performing in three areas to stay. Academic,Military and pass PFT. Once again getting in is one thing, making it through four years to graduate and commission is another.
 
Christcorp said:
But in my experience, I haven't seen any 3.8-4.0 gpa; 30+ ACT; 2100+ SAT applicants attending the prep school.
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I have.

I know of more than one (unquestionably) 100% academically/scholastically qualified freshman D1 athlete (basketball player and lacrosse players) who headed for NAPS instead of Annapolis.

"Learning the offense" and "becoming better 3-point shooter" are not valid reasons to attend prep.
 
Christcorp said:
According to the academy prep-school fact sheet; approximately 240 students attend the prep-school at the academy each year. Approximately 75% receive an appointment. (That number has actually gone DOWN the last couple years). 50% of the class is minorities. 15% are women. 20% are prior enlisted. So, unless you happen to be a Black, Female, Prior Enlisted, Track Star; at the most, only about 15% of the prep-school can be argued is for athletes.
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Only 15% can be argued is for athletes .......so none of the minority, females, or prior enlisted are athletes. Seriously, LOL
 
PBA said:
Only 15% can be argued is for athletes .......so none of the minority, females, or prior enlisted are athletes. Seriously, LOL
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If you read the rest of the post, you'd see I included part of the most recent class of 2013 stats. 31% of candidates are first generation college students, 21% percent come from single parent households and 22% percent are prior-enlisted. That's 74% and doesn't even mention the gender or minority status of the individual. The previous paragraph that you quoted mention the minority and gender status.

The point is/was/will always be, that the prep school isn't concentrating primarily as an IC red-shirt training camp. Are there some preppers who go in primarily because of their athletic abilities? yes. You haven't seen one person here disagree with that. But if you think that is the primary purpose of the prep school and athletes are the primary students it brings in, then you'd be wrong. Of course some of those minorities, girls, 1st generation college, single parents, are also athletes. But if you think the academy is specifically looking for athletes that also fit the other diversity demographics so they can find a loophole to use the academy as a D1 sports training camp; then you need to use your conspiracy theories more productively.

The fact is, the military for many years, based on federal government directives, have tried to make the military more representative demographically as the country as a whole is. And they've strived to make their officer corp representative of the enlisted corp that they will be leading. There's no doubt that based on years of affirmative action, and now the repackaging of diversity, if you are white, and more specifically a white male, then you are at a disadvantage for receiving an appointment. But fortunately, appointments are distributed among 435 representatives, 100 senators, and a number of other slates. This allows for better checks/balances.

The biggest problem is; the applicants applying are doing so much more disproportionately. There are MORE females than men in the country. Yet, a much higher percentage of men apply than women. Many more white men apply than any other demographic. But to have an officer corp better represent the enlisted corp, (which is more diverse), it is important to market more towards minorities. If you don't like this, don't argue with us. We didn't write the rules. Contact your congressman.

I bring this up to emphasize that while there are indeed some individuals going to the prep school who are selected primarily for their athletic abilities; albeit they do meet all the academy entrance requirements. The primary consideration at the prep school (Besides prior enlisted), seems to be minority and gender based. So, if you want to complain about the fairness of the prep-school and/or the appointment process of the academy as a whole, then complain about their diversity program. The athletes you talk about are such a small number compared to all others.

But of course, disagreeing with something because of race is politically incorrect. That's not nice. It's easier to complain about a small percentage of athletes. Welcome to college. YES, the majority of civilian colleges/universities do the exact same thing with diversity.
 
aglages said:
75% of what number?
Of the 240 that START the prep school each year how many COMPLETE the program? Of the number that complete the program how many CHOOSE to attend the SA? Of THAT number....how many receive appointments?
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These are stats that would actually mean something. CC, do you have any of these numbers?
 
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