Top Ten Porkiest Projects in the Omnibus Spending bill

[LineInTheSand]

The items on the list are all sound bites. The problem with listening to sound bites is that they are just that. They don't tell the whole story and often are spun in the direction of whomever is decrying the spending.

The deal with the "school sidewalk" is that it connects the town with the school. It is for the safety of the kids who walk to school so they don't have to walk along the highway. Most of the "school sidewalk" is actually along the state right-of-way and is a state construction job. Note the money is for "design and construction" - the design portion is quite expensive - engineers must be paid and environmental studies done. State contruction jobs are notorious for their cost as many states have rigid requirements for bidding a state job.

The mormon cricket is a pest and a noxious one. It is actually a katydid and they have periods of swarming where they destroy crops and become safety hazards along the highway. They are so named because tradtion has it they were destroying the first wheat crop of the first Mormon settlement in Utah when a flock of seagulls swooped down, detroyed the swarm and saved the crops.

Pork is pork as long as you are not directly affected then it becomes "your government working for you".

They don't create sustained jobs, and therefore will not "fix" the problem.

 

[Bullet]

More importantly, "pork" inserted into bills this way is using the tax money of "the many" to benefit "the few". Do the good people of Florida really get a benefit from a parking garage in Utah? Does the person paying federal taxes in California really give a hoot about grape production in new York? And I'm sure the good citizens of Alabama will never get to use that nice sidewalk in Texas.

Just my opinion, but FEDERAL money should be used in a way that benefits the ENTIRE country, not just some local community. Want a new sidewalk, Texans? Then raise your STATE and LOCAL taxes and pay for it. Want FEDERAL money? Then build a new power grid in your community that is part of a national system.

Just my $0.02. Maybe that will get me the privilege to write my name in the wet cement on that Texan sidewalk...

 

[packermatt7]

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/in_the_know_should_the_government

 

[oldgrad]

Just my opinion, but FEDERAL money should be used in a way that benefits the ENTIRE country, not just some local community. .

Not following you. Any project that I can envision will involve salaries which will help primarily the area where the specific task is being performed. Additionally, if it only involved nationwide federal projects, many, if not most communities would be eliminated.

They don't create sustained jobs, and therefore will not "fix" the problem.

The collapse of the construction market, according to most, is what got us into this mess. Its revival would get us out. Two million construction workers out of work, twice the national unemployment average. It would dump money into the economy. What's the old adage? A dollar spent locally will result in a sevenfold stimulus? I think that was true back when I took Economics but now, one would have to add the caveat to not shop at Walmart.

Incidentally, over 35 billion in DOD construction has been approved from previous year's budgets but not yet spent. Add another 12 billion for FY 2009 and we arer looking at a substantial stimulus. The military has been very successful with design-build which accelerates drastically the life of a project. The military is looking at bringing on an additional 28,000 or so soldiers and Marines. Let's get the infrastructure for them completed, spend the construction money, and let the increased military salaries and associated expenses boost the economy.

 

[Pima]

Being Bullet's spouse, I do get what he is saying...the money spent on a sidewalk for a school should come through the county's taxes that they collect through Real Estate. Sure, the sidewalk will employ people and that will help the overall economy, however the actual amt will be a pitiance in actual results. Many governors have issues with this because when the money is gone and the project is not complet, who will pay for it? Most likely, the state will have to adjust their budgets and take it out of their own pocket. The long term results are not being properly addressed. If you live in the No VA area, for at least the past 10 yrs you get to drive by everyday through construction on major roads (95/495/395/66) and see tons of construction workers hanging out. There is no need to finish the project on time or budget, because they are hired for the entire project. Does the term over budget mean anything to anyone else here besides me? At SJAFB, they have been building new military housing by gutting them (not razing). Over 10 yrs later, they still have only completed about 50%. I work in RE, if Pulte or Hovnanian were building this development it would have been done 7 yrs ago. There is no motivation to complete on time since they have a contract with the govt. That is what occurs on shovel ready projects...people know that their paycheck is tied only to that one project, complete it and there might not be another job behind it, slow it down and you still have a paycheck.

The economy crisis did not start from the fall of the construction industry. That industry suffered the repercussions from the fall of the HOUSING MARKET. They are not the same. Not everybody buys new consrruction when they buy a home, in reality new home starts is a small % of the housing industry. Remember the majority of people buying new construction are selling the home they currently live in...somebody has to buy that home. The purchaser of any home at some time may employ a construction worker, but there is no guarantee that it will occur immediately (Bullet put in our hardwood floors, he put in our ceramic tiles and backsplash, re-did our deck...not a construction worker). However, almost 100% of home owners will employ a mtg broker or bank. Every homeowner will employ the insurance industry...i.e. AIG (it is mandated by the bank). Every homeowner will pay taxes to the county and state. These issues are all just to purchase any home, thus fixing the housing and banking industry is where the crisis really does exist. When you are just trying to keep a roof over your head, you are not spending money at Lowe's, thus if you solve that problem the rest will fall in line...hiring a construction worker to pave a road for a temporay time, does not directly correlate into them keeping their home at a high interest rate.

I do agree that military spending is an incredible stimulus. That is federal spending that will affect the entire economy, it can't be compared to research on the salt marsh mouse! The problem is that you can kiss that money goodby. The DOD has been requested to reduce their budget by 10% for 2010. The direct result will be the base hospital, gym, TLFS, NCO/O'Clubs, soccer fields, golf courses, etc. not being renovated or upgraded (construction projects)...in a time of war they would have a hard problem justifying spending money on those items while cannibalizing jets. Wing Kings are going to make their budgets for DOD, if they are ordered to decrease by 10% where do you think they will cut the cost...not the operations that is for sure! If you look back to the 90s, when the military had to tighten their belt in spending, what did they do? They created more NAF operations...in the early 90's we had our own club card, not a services Master Card, Clubs that were not profitable still remained open...now we have tri-clubs due to costs. I remember living on base, before the cuts if we had a housing issue they were out there 24/7, after it was an 8-4 M-F situation and they would deem what was essential...sorry Mam that your stove is broken, but that is a 3 DAY WAIT, since it is non-essential!

You will not see the increase in troops or pay, and most likely for 2011 if we are still in this pickle our MOCS will do exactly what they did back then...reduce pay raises from 1% above COLA to the same as fed. employees .5% below COLA. You will see committments and bonuses also change. Flyers might go back to the 9 or 10 yr committment, extending the time for that 6 figure bonus, removing the 15 yr bonus all together. IMHO the 15 yr bonus is stupid...most people have already decided they are going to stay until 20, giving them another 100K+ to stay is insane...and yes we took it even knowing we were staying. Cuts are coming there still no decision on the 22, I am full believe it will be saved, but if not expect those Lockheed employees in TX to be lining up for the sidewalk project!

 

[Maximus]

Pima, thank God there are some of us out here that hear you. We understand the term "over budget"!

I think the situation is this, some/many citizens have never been on the side of a real world budget, and when it's not their money, it's a bottomless till to social engineer what they don't accomplish privately/publicly in the form of their local government and charities. IE: "I'm not spending my money on that!" BTW....or else we citizens, wouldn't have to do the project at the Federal level, that they (local stimulated) would/should have taken care of in their level. lol There are some exceptions as always.

And as stated above, when the Government gets involved with a short term construction project, the local government is responsible for the up keep and associated costs after Uncle Sam books out of town, taking his $500 hammers and endless over runs.

Most (99%) of pork is pure and simple political payback. What would stop the abuse? Simple term limits and fiscal responsibility.

 

[Maximus]

Liberal Fascism

The collapse of the construction market, according to most, is what got us into this mess. Its revival would get us out.

???

Yet the people dishing out the billions in cash are the same (IMVHO) that caused this artificially high business cyclical problem of over inflated home prices today...the real cause of this recession. (Well, that and Unions lol)
I guess old Barney Frank and Chris Dodd will figure out a way to print up enough of our kids money, to try the impossible, spend our way out of a recession.
lol

 

[Pima]

I have been a proponent for term limits since I was eligible to vote. If they existed, Byrd would be long gone...afterall he has accomplished so much for WV

 

[oldgrad]

???

Semantics, I guess. It was the glut of new housing (construction) that was one of the causes of the housing market to collapse. Regardless, a lot of construction workers are out of work. Retraining them to be computer programmers probably would not help them to get out of their financial situation as quickly as giving them something to build. Then hopefully, as the economy recovers, private sector new construction will kick in.

At SJAFB, they have been building new military housing by gutting them (not razing). Over 10 yrs later, they still have only completed about 50%.

It was a multi-phase project, first a demo contract and then three or four consecutive separate three year construction contracts. Renovations come from a different pot of money than new construction. SJAFB decided to use renovation money. I think by Phase II, they were only attempting to salvage the floor slab and by the end of the project, they had given up on even that. Probably a delay to get 'new' construction money. You are correct, this would never have been an issue in the civilian sector.

 

[Pima]

That is my point why, shovel projects are not a good idea. For every taxpayer in the US it costs close to 19K dollars. For a couple that is almost 40K...giving them the money directly to spend would get us out of this crisis faster. Just imagine, what people would do...maybe buy a home (that equates to a 400K mtg for an 80-10-10). That would stop the foreclosure problem and open up the credit lines, which in turn creates spending. If people were buying homes again, Countrywide could hire back the 5K employees they laid off, which stimulates the economy. By giving 40K to a couple, they can buy a new car...stimulating the economy. By giving 40K to families, they could send their child to an IS college without having them take out loans for @ 3 out of the 4 yrs...which also would allow them time to save and pay for the 4th yr. Just imagine kids not walking out with 30-40K in debt and loans...that means, they can spend more of their paycheck in the economy. You want a stimulus...let the American taxpayer determine how to spend it, I bet that salt marsh mouse would get some donations, but not 150 milllion. If Obama goes foward and cuts the tax credit for mtgs...you better hold onto your seat, b/c you have seen nothing yet in the housing industry...no reason to buy a home, let somebody else own it!

 

[hornetguy]

You will not see the increase in troops or pay, and most likely for 2011 if we are still in this pickle our MOCS will do exactly what they did back then...reduce pay raises from 1% above COLA to the same as fed. employees .5% below COLA.

Released yesterday: 2.9% pay raise for 2010.

 

[Pima]

And the crappy pay raises begin...don't worry in about 10 yrs they will realize that military members are voluntarily leaving in droves to join corporate and you will get to enjoy double digit pay raises...I think we had about 3 yrs of 10%+ for 98,99,and 00. It goes in cycles.

Next up in my predictions...committments extended for specialties, thus pushing back the pretty bonuses. I am guessing in 11 or 12, flyers will be up to 9, bonuses handed out at 9. They will eliminate the 15 yr, by pushing the 7 to 9 for 7 yrs...seriously who is going to walk at 16...it is just one more tour and you have a lifetime of 50% pay. Too attractive to stay since you are at the max flt pay and an O-5....and then the congress will realize that the force has become hollow and start giving big pay raises, lowering committments and the cycle will begin all over again.

I have always said the military could be compared to a bulemic...they gorge and gorge until all of the sudden they go oops too much, got to purge now! They are now purging.

 

[Pima]

Curiousity...Do you think maybe Pelosi is just giddy over spending.

At a press briefing Tuesday, Pelosi stood beside Moody’s economist Mark Zandi as he said that “another stimulus package is a reasonable probability,” that Congress was “likely” going to need to approve “more money for financial stability to shore up the banking system,” and that “more money for foreclosure mitigation may also be necessary at the end of the day.”

Asked if she agreed, Pelosi preached patience with the first stimulus package but added that, “as has been said by the economists to us in that room and Mark here, we have to keep the door open to see how this goes.”

I stated earlier that the stimulus equated into every taxpayer getting over 18K ea...if we get a second, in the end that could equal to @80K per married couple...is that enough before people start realizing what they could have spent on the economy if they were handed the check directly, instead of paying

$150 million for parking improvements at a Little League facility in Cidra, Puerto Rico,

Unfortunately for Austin they lost their 866K for their frisbee/disk 36 hole course. I didn't even know you could play frisbee like golf!

Here's the link:
http://www.usnews.com/articles/busi...pork-in-the-obama-stimulus-bill.html?PageNr=2

 

[oldgrad]

nother look at Morman crickets. From the WP this morning:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...1603299.html?hpid=artslot&sid=ST2009031703537

Bennett, a top Republican on the Appropriations Committee and a close adviser to Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), .......................said his earmark for control of Mormon crickets is "as defensible a one that they'll ever find. It's good public policy, it's good economic policy, and it's the kind of thing a representative from the West should do."

 

[LineInTheSand]

Wow, someone defending their earmark....can't imagine why they would justify it.


Why not get through all the fluff and just say "this will get me reelected."

 

[oldgrad]

I think I would rather we help farmers in Utah to make a better living rather than give AIG executives who made very bad decisions a bonus.

 

[LineInTheSand]

Then it would be good to remember, it was not my decision to "help" AIG. I would just as soon let them fail. Of course, "some" in the government gave it away, no strings attached and now save face. Attach strings to the billions to give away, but maybe that was thinking too far ahead.