Tougher basic and advanced camps moving forward

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by sheriff3, Aug 20, 2016.

  1. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2013
    Messages:
    998
    Likes Received:
    318
    Per DS the word is advanced camp and basic camp next year will be more demanding. 3 weeks in the field. APFT when you arrive 2 chances to pass and then you get sent home. Army time and distance rucks . DS said several in his Reg would have been sent home. Too much down time as it is right now. DS was shocked that several in his unit were unable to navigate, read a map or call in artillery. I would be interested in the observations of others who attended advanced camp this year. For you rising MS III you have been warned. Good luck all.
     
    txpotato likes this.
  2. k2rider

    k2rider Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    213
    That's good. The more demanding the training is, the more prepared the cadets will be when they go out into the real world. My son was with the group that went thru the 1st year of LDAC back at Ft Knox and from what I understand, it was a complete mess. I expected the Army to have their act together BEFORE moving the program, not trying to do it on the fly.
     
  3. cajuncarrier

    cajuncarrier Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    18
    Well, DS stated that this year was no better. Like Sheriff3 said, way too much down time and chaos to boot. It definitely needs to be more vigorous and challenging. DS also stated that they treated them like high schoolers at summer camp. His words. So sad that this was not a great experience for them. You would think that after the first year most of the kinks would be out.
     
  4. k2rider

    k2rider Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    213
    The issue is that "today's military" is too wrapped up in political correctness and everything that goes with that. Consequently, they don't want to hurt peoples feelings, are giving certain Ranger School attendees repeated chances to pass the course and at my sons LDAC they even cancelled the APFT because cadets who weren't prepared were getting their rear ends handed to them. Between that and essentially cancelling Land Nav was well, there was no pressure at all to perform. My son (and I'm sure many, many other cadets) worked hard to prepare for the challenges of LDAC because he wanted to excel and earn the Redondo rating only to have everything turn into pass/fail.
     
    cajuncarrier likes this.
  5. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,539
    Likes Received:
    1,002
    Ahhhh... the old "Next year it'll be different" story....
     
  6. emwvmi01

    emwvmi01 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    14
    It will be interesting to see what comes out of this. I know the CG of Cadet Command and have confidence he'll have folks put the right thoughts and mindset to determine what are the ends of Basic and Advanced Camp and what are the pre-requisites. I would disagree with cadets needing to know how to call and adjust artillery. As an FA officer who has not only called for fires but also taught the subject in two different military courses to officers I would argue all you do training in ROTC or at Camp is build bad habits. Unless those units have the simulators or live training rounds (unlikely) then you're really not training the task. I would advise all commenters here to be thinking of what is the ends of Advanced Camp. I would argue it is less about tactical/technical proficiency (BOLC's job) and more about meeting some baseline Army standards (Physical Fitness, Basic Marksmanship etc) and also about assessing leadership. The STX and FTXs at camp were always just a tool to do leadership assessments and were not about creating some super-elite Soldiers.
     
    Copey, Fishpart, AROTC-dad and 2 others like this.
  7. nofodad

    nofodad Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Messages:
    502
    Likes Received:
    190
    The variety of skills and preparedness that cadets go to basic and advanced camp with are a direct reflection of the variety of training in the battalions nationwide. Except for a couple exercises, my DS was generally bored with CLC (when I posted such last year another parent reminded me that it could have been his "attitude."). The prior enlisted that were in his company were astounded by how poorly prepared many cadets were. All in all, I think it emphasizes the need for both, even though the Army seems to be fine tuning these camps, the result will be a better prepared 2nd Lt.
     
    NavyHoops likes this.
  8. cajuncarrier

    cajuncarrier Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    18
    I wouldn't think it was his attitude. DS felt the same way. He was itching to be challenged and taught something new. He was very disappointed. He said it was too watered down.
     
  9. nofodad

    nofodad Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Messages:
    502
    Likes Received:
    190
    Training according to some cadets did vary from regiment to regiment, that was another variable.
     
  10. Wilco

    Wilco Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2014
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    124
    DS observations sound much the same. Surprised at how many in his regiment had below average of military fundamentals. Some had never done any land navigation, or had no understanding of squad movements. No regular PT so he and a few squad mates set up their own when not in the field. He is pretty easy going but did not care for the different treatment of male and female cadets. Still trying to understand the Army way with cadet training.
     
  11. k2rider

    k2rider Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    213
    Surely you jest. That doesn't go on. I've heard and/or read repeatedly from people wearing stars that everybody is treated the same and there is no special treatment given. Only the Marine Corps seems to be holding the line and kicking folks to the curb that can't pass the standards to be in combat related units. By doing otherwise, the military is just doing a disservice to their members on all sides.
     

Share This Page