TWE

Not a BGO but I did read Title 10, section 6957 - Sledge is correct on authorized size and NavyHoops is correct that they are on a 'separate process' since the 60 international are in addition to the 4,400 authorized in the Brigade. The actual language is - "(a)(1) The Secretary of the Navy may permit not more than 60 persons at any one time from foreign countries to receive instruction at the Academy. Such persons shall be in addition to the authorized strength of the midshipmen under section 6954 of this title........"
 
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NavyHoops said:
BGOs correct me if I am wrong, International Students are completely separate from any of this. They return to their home countries to serve. Theses numbers fluctuate annually based upon the number of qualified students, agreements between nations, etc. Whether there are 10 or 20 of them won't impact things. The USNA class size is based upon projected needs of the Navy, projected graduation numbers and probably a million other things that I never thought of. They are not taking a spot from a student here in the states.
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This was my understanding as well.
 
tak508 said:
We are hoping that perhaps a BGO could shed some light on what DS could possibly do in the immediate future to improve his chances for 2020. What could possibly change in his record- to strengthen his hand in this mysterious and baffling selection process? Please advise?
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I'm not a BGO, but what I've learned in this process is "You don't know what you don't know". Maybe in your DS's situation it was a very competitive slate, whereas next year it might not be as much so and he'll be shoe-in. It's such a complicated jig saw puzzle and we are not given the box to see what the puzzle is supposed to look like. We're just holding on to one tiny piece hoping there is a place for it in the big picture.
 
I just want to say that reading this thread is extremely inspirational! For all of those who unfortunately received the TWE from Annapolis, I am deeply sorry but also extremely inspired by your determination to not give up! You all are SO amazing and I wish you all the best of luck next year and this year with your Plan B's.
 
USAFA83GradWife said:
I find that assuming that young ladies are less qualified very insulting. No one - and I mean NO ONE - but admissions knows about all the qualifications. There are more than just grades/scores involved. There are also interviews, recommendations and many other factors. I applaud all who received their appointments believing that the young ladies are just as deserving as the young men.

I am proud of all the young men and women who have decided to serve their country - whether through the Academy or ROTC or OCS.
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I completely agree with your post. I don't want to sound discordant, but to best serve the country we need the best qualified people regardless of their sex, race...etc. If you look at the statistics from the past two years, you can see the trends in the appointments. It’s hard to achieve stated goals of a particular class/group if you have a limited pool of qualified applicants without compromising your standards.
I am not blaming anyone or trying to make a social statement that have already been posted. I am just sharing information that was given to me that might assist other people facing a sense of disappointment. No Excuses, No Regrets!!!

http://www.usna.edu/NewsCenter/2014/07/naval-academy-class-of-2018-stats.php

NFTM 4-29-07
 
Beat Army!!! said:
I completely agree with your post. I don't want to sound discordant, but to best serve the country we need the best qualified people regardless of their sex, race...etc. If you look at the statistics from the past two years, you can see the trends in the appointments. It’s hard to achieve stated goals of a particular class/group if you have a limited pool of qualified applicants without compromising your standards.
I am not blaming anyone or trying to make a social statement that have already been posted. I am just sharing information that was given to me that might assist other people facing a sense of disappointment. No Excuses, No Regrets!!!

http://www.usna.edu/NewsCenter/2014/07/naval-academy-class-of-2018-stats.php

NFTM 4-29-07
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Perhaps a BGO is better qualified to address this, but I was assured that USNA and USAFA are gender-blind in their selection criteria. Who was it that told you about the goal? Did they tell you that USNA reduced their standards for select groups of people? Would they go on record to say that?

USNA actually has no problems with getting enough qualified women without compromising standards. I've read the stats and they were exceeded last year.

I assure you, USNA is not going to compromise their standards. Everyone that gets an appointment deserves the appointment. It appears to be tougher to get an appointment this year, not because there's a goal to get more women, but because there are less appointment slots.
 
I don't see how they can be gender-blind. They have publicly stated that the goal is to raise female participation. Since the rate of women who accept their appointment is different than the men the school must factor that yield into the calculations of how many offers to make to each sex to get the target numbers.

Having said that: I don't in any way believe that they lower their standards at all. My guess is that the overall female pool has grades, test scores etc that are almost identical to the men
 
TV4caster said:
I don't see how they can be gender-blind. They have publicly stated that the goal is to raise female participation. Since the rate of women who accept their appointment is different than the men the school must factor that yield into the calculations of how many offers to make to each sex to get the target numbers.

Having said that: I don't in any way believe that they lower their standards at all. My guess is that the overall female pool has grades, test scores etc that are almost identical to the men
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Can you site the source, please? I'd love to read it.
 
USAFA83GradWife said:
Can you site the source, please? I'd love to read it.
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I read the part about wanting more women on these forums over the past several months. Looking on Google I was not able to find a direct quote to that effect, but I did find a couple of articles that say the number of women has been increasing in recent years. Of course, we can look up those numbers on the official USNA class portraits and find out that. Last year there were 302 women out of a class size of 1191. The year before that it was 274 out of 1211. The class of 2015 was only 236 out of 1229. So while class size has decreased by 38, the number of women has gone up by 66. Put another way: women made up 19% of the class of 2015 then rose steadily to 25% of the class of 2018. That doesn't happen without a concerted effort.

If you were asking for a source for the different yields, it is here.

http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/_files/documents/ClassPortrait.pdf

The yield for men was 85.98% but 82.97%

Two years earlier it was 87.5% for men but 85.22% for women.

As for the standards being very similar, I can only guess, because in general women typically score about 10 deg lower on the math section but about the same amount higher on the writing and verbal sections.
 
TV4caster said:
I read the part about wanting more women on these forums over the past several months. Looking on Google I was not able to find a direct quote to that effect, but I did find a couple of articles that say the number of women has been increasing in recent years. Of course, we can look up those numbers on the official USNA class portraits and find out that. Last year there were 302 women out of a class size of 1191. The year before that it was 274 out of 1211. The class of 2015 was only 236 out of 1229. So while class size has decreased by 38, the number of women has gone up by 66. Put another way: women made up 19% of the class of 2015 then rose steadily to 25% of the class of 2018. That doesn't happen without a concerted effort.

If you were asking for a source for the different yields, it is here.

http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/_files/documents/ClassPortrait.pdf

The yield for men was 85.98% but 82.97%

Two years earlier it was 87.5% for men but 85.22% for women.

As for the standards being very similar, I can only guess, because in general women typically score about 10 deg lower on the math section but about the same amount higher on the writing and verbal sections.
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When my DD spoke to her BGO and her admissions counselor last year, she asked about this (she takes pride in her accomplishments and didn't want special treatment.) The response from both was that the effort was recruitment only, such as getting more women into SS or CVW. The girls did not get any special treatment during the actual appointment process because the numbers took care of themselves.

I guess that's what I'm getting at is that I agree that there's a push to make Navy more palatable to young ladies. To show them, it's a career worth pursuing. I have not seen or read anything where USNA is changing their requirements to accommodate more women. I just don't see that it is necessary given the increase in the number of young ladies applying.

As I said before, USNA is not going to give an appointment to someone who doesn't deserve it. The young ladies that have received appointments EARNED them and DESERVE it, just like the young men. ... and just like many who received a TWE. At some point, the remaining are ranked and a line is drawn. It doesn't mean that someone who got a TWE isn't deserving, it only means there's not enough room. It also doesn't mean that someone less deserving got an appointment -- they all deserved it.
 
I completely agree with the above. As someone whose DD is every bit as deserving as everyone else who is left, I agree with the general premise of your statement. However, it is obvious that they are admitting more women. I was able to find a task force recommendation from several years ago that urged the Academy to admit more women, and quotes saying that the Academy planned to implement the task force recommendations.

Because there are so many qualified female applicants I don't think they need to give them any special treatment. I totally agree with you there. I do think that they are trying to tweak the number of offers to each sex to move the numbers a bit.

FYI- a lawsuit was filed recently that claims women actually are discriminated against in the admissions process.

http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/naval_academy/ph-ac-cn-usna-lawsuit-0204-20150203,0,1923443.story
 
USAF83gradwife here are a couple sources that detail the Navy's efforts at increasing the overall number of women in the fleet and the increase in female attendance at USNA at least up through co2018. I don't believe there is any special treatment given to, nor asked for by, any of these female midshipmen. I know there is outreach that goes on by the academey to find qualified, deserving candidates from all backgrounds and that includes females and if that outreach is successful-as it appears that it is- the number of female applicants goes up as does the number of appointments and class ratio and as a dad of 2xDS and 1xDD, I want her to have the same chance DS has right now to earn her appiontment if she want to apply in 4.5 years.



Here is an excerpt from an article Kris Osborn wrote for Military.com news Jan 1, 2015 related to an incident that occurred on the USS Wyoming.

"(Secty)Mabus added that the plan to integrate enlisted women may take some time because it will require some structural changes to submarines.
The enlisted women will be placed, by design, on ships where existing female naval officers can function as role-models and mentors, Navy officials said.
The Navy first made the formal decision to allow women officers on submarines in February 2010. Overall, women make up roughly 15-percent of the Navy, service officials said.
The rationale for allowing more women on submarines is grounded in a Navy interest to widen the existing talent pool to include the contributions of many talented female members of the service.
In total, the Navy is working to bring more women into the fleet, Mabus added.
"We don't have enough women in the Navy. We're working on trying to raise the number," Mabus said"


He does not say that standards will be lowered, just that they would like more women in the fleet and women officers as role-models for the enlisted women.


And an excerpt from Secretary Mabus' speech given for outgoing Supt. Milke Miller.

This engagement has helped Mike with the American people refocus the Academy’s efforts on
diversity. He has started a number of important on-campus programs and has emphasized
outreach. The Class of 2013 as the most diverse in Academy history. And while he has been

here as Superintendent the enrollment of women has gone from 21% to nearly 26% in the Class

of 2018
 
seems like a non-issue. the info is all out there and readily searchable if one takes the time to find it.
 
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ca2nemom said:
who also had less qualifications than DS)!
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Ca3nemom: How do you know this young lady was less qualified...Did you see her WCS...Did you seen all of her accomplishments...Did you see the slate she was competing with...were you in the admissions meeting with Dean Latta when the decision was made to offer her an appointment?

My guess is the answers are NO.

I understand you are disappointed BUT please do not play the gender card. It make you sound very bitter and shallow and I am sure you are not a shallow person or you would not have raised the child you did.

These young ladies (my daughter included) who have received APPOINTMENTS are QUALIFIED and maybe.. just maybe have more qualifications than others.


(BTW my daughter received an appointment to all 3 academies.)
 
TV4caster said:
I don't see how they can be gender-blind.
They are!!!

Having said that: I don't in any way believe that they lower their standards at all. My guess is that the overall female pool has grades, test scores etc that are almost identical to the men
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Maybe, just maybe the female pool has grades, test scores etc that are better than the men!!!
 
MJP said:
seems like a non-issue. the info is all out there and readily searchable if one takes the time to find it.
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I didn't make the claim that USNA lowered standards. That's why I asked for references. I figured that if someone makes that claim, they can back it up, yes?

I DO, however, concede that USNA is making an attempt to recruit more women. I don't see a problem with that so long as high standards are maintained.
 
parent said:
Maybe, just maybe the female pool has grades, test scores etc that are better than the men!!!
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The many young ladies who received appointments obviously earned that honor. I suspect some of those ladies may actually have had higher grades and scores, others may not. Since the appointments are based on a large set of criteria - grades/scores being about 60% - we never have the full picture. Only the admissions people do. They have a tough, tough job. And quite frankly, they are very good at it.

At the risk of repeating myself, those that are still in the game in March and beyond are all qualified, hard-working, deserving young people. There are only a small number of appointments and too many very qualified applicants. Even tougher for those who are in a highly competitive area. I truly hope that those who received TWEs this late in the game will reapply next year - but for now, embrace your plan B. You may find that it really is your Plan A. :)

By the way -- all those awards and accolades you've earned to get this appointment? Yah, means nothing to those mids that will train you. You're just an average Joe in a class with equally talented and brilliant plebes. You suddenly find out that you're not that special. A tough lesson to learn, but my DD did & is better for it.
 
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