Ucla afrotc

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by ahuntedyeti, Dec 26, 2012.

  1. ahuntedyeti

    ahuntedyeti Member

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    As the new year is set to begin I find myself preparing plans B and C if I do not get an NROTC or AFROTC scholarship. I was wondering if anyone had any experience at the UCLA AFROTC detachment and more specifically any experiences with students who attended UCSB. UCSB is probably my best match school with UCLA being somewhat of a reach. SDSU's AFROTC detachment may be another option but if I cannot get into UCSD I would rather not suffer through the notoriously compacted SDSU academic program.

    Does anyone have any other commuting experience when dealing with crosstown affiliates?
     
  2. Thompson

    Thompson Member

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    I do not know anything about their respective ROTC programs ... but since you specifically mentioned "crosstown", I figured it'd be relevant to tell you something if you have not considered it yet.

    Back in June, when I went to speak with the LTC of Penn State's AROTC program he made one thing very clear about crosstown programs; human nature. Basically what he told me is, to be careful when considering crosstown programs. Why; well lets look at it from the program's perspective. Sure, sure they will be happy to have you as a part of their program - officially that is. But you also have to consider something else too. They will also see you, the cadet, in a bit of a negative way; in the sense that you are taking up potential money and training, as you are not from that school - where that slot could have been used for a student from that college. They are going to see it, sort of in a way, "taking" from their program if you can kinda see what I'm getting at.

    Sure, I could go to Penn State - Harrisburg -- but crosstown to Shippensburg; and sure the cadre might think of me as an exceptional cadet ... but they are also going resent me a bit in the sense that I am - "taking" from their program. Sort of the idea (loosely) of being the outcast in the group.

    ... another thing you must realize is the time commitment. I do not know of the location between these colleges, but you must also take into consideration of time commitment. The first two years of ROTC do not require a lot of "work" so to speak (I do not know the typical amount/week, but it is not a lot in comparison to the 3rd/4th year). Now the 3rd/4th year, you are now the cadet (along with other cadets) who are basically running the program. When I went to my Army interview up at Penn State, the LTC told me that for MS 3 & 4; cadets typically commit about 20 hours/week to ROTC --- then you throw in college; where in these last two years it's more about the specialization into the field, no more gen. ed. stuff. Your college professor isn't going to care if you're up until 5am working on a titration (loosely paraphrased from the LTC). And ON TOP OF THAT - throw in the crosstown part - all that traveling to and from.

    I'm not trying to discourage you; by all means RV with Destiny. But ... I thought you should be aware of this if you are not already.

    Best of luck,
    Thompson
     
  3. ahuntedyeti

    ahuntedyeti Member

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    Thanks for the insight. What you are saying makes a lot of sense. That commute between SB and LA is one hell of a drive, about an hour and a half on a good day. (LA traffic usually doesn't have good days) ill take that into consideration as I make my decisions. Hopefully plan A pans out so I won't have to worry about this!
    Thanks again.
     
  4. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    It would be great if cadets who travel crosstown or have longer commutes could comment on their experience.

    In the meantime, I don't agree with much of Thompson's evaluation, particularly the suggestion that the cadre "resents" cadets from a crosstown school. My own sense (from a limited data base) is that the affinity and loyalty of cadre members is to their battalion and program, not necessarily to the host school. Most military members of the cadre are rotated within three years (unless like our Clarkson, you prefer having outdoor ice hockey available for six or so months of every year). Their compensation is from the DoD, not the host school. And they are not generally alumni of the host school. In fact, the PMS of Cadet Delahanty's battalion is a graduate of one of the crosstown schools.

    If cadets from a particular crosstown school have a demonstrated tendency to perform at a lower level, then that might be another thing.

    The issue Thompson brings up which may have validity is the extra time required for travel. If the schools are close to one another this is not a factor. However, if the distance is long or the commute arduous, this can have a negative impact on (1) time available to commit to ROTC and (2) development of camaraderie with cadets who spend most of their their non-ROTC and non-academic time on campus. An extreme example of this was in an article in the Atlantic earlier this year about a fellow who had to travel an hour forty minutes each way between home and school every day. The camaraderie part is of less concern when a high proportion of the cadets in a battalion are from affiliate schools or are commuters.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/national...n-uneven-rotc-may-change-our-military/260179/

    Regarding the pressure on time because of academic demands, that may be due to the choice of major more than anything else. If you had to stay up until 5 a.m to finish the titration experiment, that may be less a function of which school you are attending and more a function of your time management skills. Remember, no more than two and a half hours a day of video games.
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Thompson,

    I might be wrong and ready to eat my crow, but I have never heard of that at all. AFROTC is tied to the cadet and not the school, thus one college could theoretically have 100% on scholarship and 0% at another. Dets actually pay the university rent to the college. A larger det will receive more funds from AFROTCHQ regarding their budget. Those on scholarship will not impact the det at all because the way it is paid is it goes straight to the bursar or the cadet, it never goes through the det finances, in other words, they aren't taking it away from a cadet that actually attends that college and is not a xtown cadet.

    Now why most will say not to do xtown if it is at all possible to avoid.
    1. PT is usually at O dark thirty.
    ~~~ For example Det 330 is considered in the beltway of MD/VA George Mason, and JHU commute to UMDCP. In this area it becomes bumper traffic starting around 6 am until 9 am. It can take 30 minutes to go 10 miles.

    In essence to guarantee you will be there for a 6:30 show, you would want to leave by 5:45, and even if you roll out of bed to get ready, you are still looking at getting up around 5:15. The cadet on campus can roll out of bed at 6 to be there at 6:30.

    It also means that it can mess with your class schedule because if that class is only offered at 8 a..m or 1 p.m., the 8 a.m. option is out. That can have a domino effect on other classes for scheduling.

    2. Cost
    ~~~Although gas prices are down to 3.25, remember it can go back to the 4.50+ mark just as fast. Additionally most colleges will not have free parking, so you will be paying for parking. Some colleges will not allow xtown cadets the ability to get a permit since they are not a student, thus they have to pay meter parking. You will repeat this for LLAB too. 10-15 bucks a week in gas and 5 bucks in parking does not seem much, but multiply that by 30 weeks. It can be 500 dollars a yr more out of pocket.

    3. Human nature
    ~~~ Some dets will house their cadets some will not. Either way it is still human nature to bond with those that are on campus in class, going to FB games with you faster than those that aren't at the college. It is common for cadets to discuss which prof to take and which to avoid. A xtown cadet won't have that as readily available to them.

    Xtown cadets can feel that they are caught between two worlds socially because they have part of their life at one school and part at another. Freshman yr is hard enough to adjust to in the 1st few weeks, this is just another adjustment that they need to make.

    ~~~ Great dets know that and they have things like GMC night where the cadets get together 1x a week at night in the cadet lounge. They order in pizza play crud, foosball, Xbox, etc.
    ~~~ The dets will also most likely have Honor Guard, AAS, Angel and Silver wings. These are military fraternities. At our DS's det twice a yr they have formal functions and you can see with the POCs how they impact the cadets by looking at the tables. They are not assigned tables, they select whom they want to sit with. When I attended the graduation formal last spring, everyone at DS's table had an AAS forge, the table to the right they were silver wings, to the left it was Angel flight, etc. These cadets typically pledge the spring of C100 or fall C200, thus, they have been socializing outside of AFROTC for yrs. They do philanthropic work together, they go camping together, they live together, etc.

    For those that live on campus they just walk to the det at night which makes it easier than for those that live xtown. Again, another reason why they bond faster. It is easy to join, whereas xtown, many don't want to drive back to the campus at 6 p..m. to go and hang with cadets when they can hang with the kids at their school.

    ~~~ At our DS's det., cadets on campus with an hr to kill between classes usually will go to the det and hang out with other cadets. This gives them indirect face time. They are hanging with out playing xbox or surfing the net on their computers, not kissing up to anyone, but as the cadre is walking about they can start placing a name to a face. They get to see the cadets in other ways than just LLAB. They become people.

    ~~~ As you go up the leadership ladder your job will have more responsibilities and that means more meetings and submitting reports. It is easier to pop in between class to check on something than have to drive out to the college one more time. This is also true regarding paperwork for your self, such as semester reviews, pay, DoDMERB, SFT, AFSC packages and orders.

    To me these are the reasons why one should think long and hard about doing xtown.

    Again, I would not worry that the command will see you in any negative light regarding finances and taking spots for on campus AFROTC because it has no financial bearing on them at all. Think about it how could you take money away from them when:
    A. Typically the avg % of cadets on scholarship is @20%, 80% are not scholarship, hence they aren't taking a spot.
    B. They allow walk ons, and financially they can not plan the yr prior in Oct. how many walk on they will have the following fall. Fiscal budgets run Oct 1-Sept 30th.

    Just my 0.0175343 cents of an opinion and now toss it in the circular filing cabinet because honestly, you will be miserable if you attend a college just because it is the host college and not because you want to attend the college.

    OBTW, I know several who had children that did xtown, and I would say that statistically they stayed with the program at the same rate as those that were at the host college.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  6. Thompson

    Thompson Member

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    Well, you could be wrong, I could be wrong; we both could be wrong! Don't know what to say, as it was the LTC's words. Even though that was the Army program, doubt that would be different program to program.

    But on the flipside; Pima does raise some very good points to consider as well.
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Thompson,

    It does vary. AFROTC is the only ROTC program that scholarship is only tied to the cadet. A/NROTC is tied to the det and the cadet. Hence, why I said one unit could theoretically have 100% on scholarship and another have 0%. A/NROTC like to spread the wealth among the units. They make sure that they won't have one with 100% and another with 0%. AFROTC scholarships place their biggest emphasis on majors and academic stats when awarding a scholarship. For ex: Type 1 recipients typically have 31+ ACT and are tech. It is more likely you will see statistically more cadets on scholarship at a Tier 1 school, such as Notre Dame, UMich, UVA, UNCCH, than a Tier 3 school like UCF. It is just their system. AFROTC does not care where the cadet takes the scholarship as long as the school accepts the scholarship, it has no bearing when it comes to being awarded a scholarship. It is a national scholarship all the way, whereas A/NROTC are national, it is geo-centric regarding awards.

    Some colleges have that belief you are suggesting because some ROTC units sit on the admissions board, this is what I call a push/pull method. The scholarship in hand is a way if they are not academically A paper for fighting for their admittance so they can pull the candidate through if they applied using the guarantee of a scholarship. If you are not applying for that college, and another is, awarding you the scholarship means if an applicant on the cusp for admission may be harder to get into the college.

    As a parent, I would be hesitant for my child to attend a unit that openly states the xtown cadet is for lack of better terms the red headed step child. I am not saying it doesn't occur; I am not naive, I am saying it would be food for thought.

    I know at our DS's AFROTC unit that doesn't happen. 2 of his close friends were xtown cadets and both got SFT, + UPT. Interesting fact, both of them as C300's actually moved to the host campus to live with cadets off campus and commuted to their actual college. They did so because they were in AAS and had leadership positions that it was easier to drive 2-3 times a week during off peak travel time for class to their college, than driving 2-3 times a week for ROTC plus social gatherings during the weekend.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  8. SoleTrain

    SoleTrain Must be the Kicks

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    I'm a crosstown cadet in AFROTC (attending a 2-year community college as GMC and will transfer to the host school if I become POC), here's what I can tell you from my 3 semesters of experience:

    -I have never seen any sort of animosity come my way from cadre for being crosstown. In fact, I was the only cadet in my class to get a Type II scholarship this semester, over a couple dozen cadets attending the host school. What school the cadet attends is a non-factor here. I certainly hope it's the same everywhere else!

    -I have about a 25 miles, 30 minute commute to the host school every day. It's heavy gas and the parking is expensive, but I have a part time job (and now stipend money) to make it work. That can be a real hurdle for some people. Just find the closest host you can. Get closer however you can.

    -If you can, do what Pima said and hang out on campus with the on campus cadets. I try to hang out in the det, study, and socialize with the other cadets at least twice a week. It got me face time with POC, cadre, etc.

    I'm not saying being crosstown is easy, it's definitely tougher than attending the host school. But when you get into the program you build a certain amount of passion for the eventual goal of pinning butterbars; that passion will push you to do what you gotta do to make it work :thumb:
     
  9. Winner

    Winner Member

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    I would have to disagree with you here.

    I go to the University of Tampa and go to the University of South Florida for their AFROTC program. I have never felt that they "resent" me or fellow cross-town students for taking up space. I would say 30% in the detachment of 100 or so are cross-town students, and all of them would agree with me. I would say your experience is anecdotal and not customary to AFROTC detachments.

    However, I would say that you are at a slight disadvantage being a cross-town student. Volunteer opportunities within the detachment are usually taken by those who are already on campus. Regardless of how far you are, there will be no excuse to not partake in those opportunities and get yourself out there in the detachment.
     
  10. Thompson

    Thompson Member

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    Like I said the LTC, Deputy PMS told me this. And as Pima said, the AF program funds are tied differently from the Army.
     
  11. ahuntedyeti

    ahuntedyeti Member

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    Thanks for all the input! Truly a wealth of knowledge to be found here.
     
  12. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Sunshine

    You know, for someone who is a firm believer in human nature, you seem to have forgotten that it is sometimes human nature to blow sunshine up your skirt.
     

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