United States Naval Academy vs Brown BS/MD

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auk

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Hello, I am a current high school senior choosing between the United States Naval Academy and Brown PLME (8 year BS/MD program). The Academy and medicine are both dreams for me and I know they might not be compatable.

Brown PLME
ProsCons
  • guaranteed admission into Warren-Alpert medical school
    • no need to take MCAT
    • no need to apply to medical schools
  • open-curriculum
  • no financial aid
    • 80k+ per year for undergraduate
    • 90k+ per year for medical school
    • 700k+ total

United States Naval Academy
ProsCons
  • guaranteed job as Naval officer upon graduation
  • military community and connections
  • attend med school for no tuition (Uniformed Services University) or educational costs scholarship (any medical school)
  • free
  • get paid around 1k monthly
  • leadership, discipline, and physical development
  • less likely chance of going into medicine
    • must apply for Navy med corp billet (<20 students per year)
  • will have to take MCAT
  • will have to apply to medical schools

Everything about the Naval Academy, from lifestyle to military opportunities, appeals to me more except for the non-guarantee in medicine.

If I go to Brown, I will likely do ROTC or the Health Professions Scholarship Program, so I will ultimately end up in the military.

I know this is a decision that will ultimately be up to me. I know asking this forum is asking a very biased sample but I would like to get outside opinions on these two programs to help me make a better educated decision.

Does anyone have any thoughts on these two programs in general and when it comes to medicine? Does anyone have experience with either of the programs? Thank you!
 
... so this topic, Med School, is heavily discussed in the forum. Use the search function in this forum, right upper quadrant.
 
Additional factors for your analysis:


  • Depending on which service ROTC program you would do at Brown, you may or may not be able to go to medical school after commissioning. NROTC - highly unlikely, you would be expected to go to one of the Navy warfare communities.
  • If you attended USNA and were not selected for Med Corps, would you be happy/willing to choose another warfare specialty? The USNA path to Med School is narrow and hard. It doesn’t take much to fall off the path.
  • Have you fully researched Navy medicine and the years of required service obligation, and when that starts? USUHS is tuition-free, yes, but you will owe X years. Ditto civilian medical school where Navy pays. Residency, you will owe Y years. If you attended USNA, you will owe those 5 years. That line-up of years starts after you finish residency, and some residencies are several years long themselves. This is all fine if you knew from the get-go you wanted 20+ year career in the Navy.
  • Any chance at financial aid or scholarships for Brown? Do well in undergrad, and you can apply for HPSP to help cover med school there or apply to USUHS.
  • Think VERY carefully about taking on school loan debt. It can crush your financial health for years.
  • This recent thread provides parallel insights.
  • Thread 'PA School after graduating with NROTC'
    https://www.serviceacademyforums.com/index.php?threads/pa-school-after-graduating-with-nrotc.95217/
  • If you go into the military and serve your required obligated service plus any additional years required by your commissioning source to earn the generous veterans’ educational benefit in the Post-9/11 GI Bill, you can serve yoir time, get out, and use that benefit to pay for med school. You could apply to come back into the military or continue with a civilian career.
  • The MCAT seems to be a big factor for you. Commit to putting the work in to prep for it down the road, give yourself more options.
 
Last edited:
I had a guest speaker yesterday finishing her PhD in neuroscience. She will have Brown printed on her diploma. She was growing rat neurons to inject into plants to improve photosynthesis or something like that. I probably got that wrong. Anyway, it sounds like you want to be a physician more than to be a naval officer. Plus, your Brown pros are much stronger than your USNA cons.

I recommend you choose Brown.

Disclaimer: I know nothing about either school. I barely graduated high school.
 
Concurring with concise opinions offered above -if you have zero interest or willingness to serve as a warfare officer in the Navy, go to a civilian school. As I noted above, NROTC will likely not be an option for you as a path to military medical.

Since you are a HS senior, do you have an appointment to USNA and are admitted to Brown?

You might want to re-read the USNA.edu web pages on medical school, organize your questions, and call the Chem Dept and find the prof who is the adviser for the program.
If you decide to roll the dice and go for it at USNA, here’s what you face:
- A four-year grind where you have extra grinding to do to build med school app
- Probably majoring in Chemistry. You can major in other things, but your Chem, Physics and overall GPA have to be fairly spectacular. Not an easy feat. You are a high-performing frog coming from a regular pond. You are going to a pond with frogs just like you.
- You will have to figure out how to get Biology in. I don’t think USNA offers it, but I haven’t checked recently.
- You will probably spend precious summer leave blocks and other break times volunteering at medical facilities or doing “follow-the-doctor” periods to gain clinical insights to build your package.
- You still have to pass all other graded areas - physical fitness PRT, PE, military aptitude/performance, etc. You cannot afford even one serious misconduct incident.
- If you have no interest in warfare stuff, USNA will not be fun in that area for you.
- You will have to figure out how to cram in MCAT prep.
- Every year, many plebes express interest in the medical path. Every year, more and more drift away. About 13-16 plus or minus get selected every year.
- You will work your butt off to go this way, more so than most. If this sounds like your cup of tea, every bit of it, knowing the price you would pay for not getting into the program or losing interest, is going into a warfare community, then it might be your path. Keep in mind you can attend USNA for 2 years without obligation. If you go to USNA and fall prey to the plebe-killer courses, Chem and Calc, or realize this path to med school is not for you, you can seek another path. Or you might fall in love with the idea of being a warrior!
 
severn said:
... so this topic, Med School, is heavily discussed in the forum. Use the search function in this forum, right upper quadrant.
Click to expand...
I have been unable to find anyone that chose between a service academy and a BS/MD program. I'm sure they're out there, just haven't been able to track them down.
 
auk said:
I have been unable to find anyone that chose between a service academy and a BS/MD program. I'm sure they're out there, just haven't been able to track them down.
Click to expand...
.
I am sure you want to be a Medical Doctor because your OP is shouting Medical School.

Decision made … Congratulations … you are going to Brown
.
 
Capt MJ said:
Additional factors for your analysis:


  • Depending on which service ROTC program you would do at Brown, you may or may not be able to go to medical school after commissioning. NROTC - highly unlikely, you would be expected to go to one of the Navy warfare communities.
  • If you attended USNA and were not selected for Med Corps, would you be happy/willing to choose another warfare specialty? The USNA path to Med School is narrow and hard. It doesn’t take much to fall off the path.
  • Have you fully researched Navy medicine and the years of required service obligation, and when that starts? USUHS is tuition-free, yes, but you will owe X years. Ditto civilian medical school where Navy pays. Residency, you will owe Y years. If you attended USNA, you will owe those 5 years. That line-up of years starts after you finish residency, and some residencies are several years long themselves. This is all fine if you knew from the get-go you wanted 20+ year career in the Navy.
  • Any chance at financial aid or scholarships for Brown? Do well in undergrad, and you can apply for HPSP to help cover med school there or apply to USUHS.
  • Think VERY carefully about taking on school loan debt. It can crush your financial health for years.
  • This recent thread provides parallel insights.
  • Thread 'PA School after graduating with NROTC'
    https://www.serviceacademyforums.com/index.php?threads/pa-school-after-graduating-with-nrotc.95217/
  • If you go into the military and serve your required obligated service plus any additional years required by your commissioning source to earn the generous veterans’ educational benefit in the Post-9/11 GI Bill, you can serve yoir time, get out, and use that benefit to pay for med school. You could apply to come back into the military or continue with a civilian career.
  • The MCAT seems to be a big factor for you. Commit to putting the work in to prep for it down the road, give yourself more options.
Click to expand...
I understand NROTC is the most selective ROTC for medicine so I would likely be doing Army ROTC or AFROTC and Brown.

Service time isn't a con for me at the moment as I want to serve in the military.

The Brown price tag is a big one.

Appreciate the points and response!
 
Capt MJ said:
Concurring with concise opinions offered above -if you have zero interest or willingness to serve as a warfare officer in the Navy, go to a civilian school. As I noted above, NROTC will likely not be an option for you as a path to military medical.

Since you are a HS senior, do you have an appointment to USNA and are admitted to Brown?

You might want to re-read the USNA.edu web pages on medical school, organize your questions, and call the Chem Dept and find the prof who is the adviser for the program.
If you decide to roll the dice and go for it at USNA, here’s what you face:
- A four-year grind where you have extra grinding to do to build med school app
- Probably majoring in Chemistry. You can major in other things, but your Chem, Physics and overall GPA have to be fairly spectacular. Not an easy feat. You are a high-performing frog coming from a regular pond. You are going to a pond with frogs just like you.
- You will have to figure out how to get Biology in. I don’t think USNA offers it, but I haven’t checked recently.
- You will probably spend precious summer leave blocks and other break times volunteering at medical facilities or doing “follow-the-doctor” periods to gain clinical insights to build your package.
- You still have to pass all other graded areas - physical fitness PRT, PE, military aptitude/performance, etc. You cannot afford even one serious misconduct incident.
- If you have no interest in warfare stuff, USNA will not be fun in that area for you.
- You will have to figure out how to cram in MCAT prep.
- Every year, many plebes express interest in the medical path. Every year, more and more drift away. About 13-16 plus or minus get selected every year.
- You will work your butt off to go this way, more so than most. If this sounds like your cup of tea, every bit of it, knowing the price you would pay for not getting into the program or losing interest, is going into a warfare community, then it might be your path. Keep in mind you can attend USNA for 2 years without obligation. If you go to USNA and fall prey to the plebe-killer courses, Chem and Calc, or realize this path to med school is not for you, you can seek another path. Or you might fall in love with the idea of being a warrior!
Click to expand...
Yes, I have a full appointment to USNA and accepted to Brown BS/MD.

I got my USNA appointment months before my Brown acceptance. I had accepted I would be going to USNA because nobody expects to get into Brown BS/MD and then... surprise. I did all the research, talked to current and previous midshipmen, and talked to the premedical professor advisor. I spent so long looking into and thinking of USNA but now there's this other, viable option.

Thank you (again)!
 
You're obviously a gifted individual with a wide open future. When you're in bed, in the quiet and darkness, see yourself in five to ten years. What do you look like? What are you wearing? Where do you want to be and what do you want to be doing? How you get there is your conundrum. It's a good problem to have.

I'm a high school teacher believe it or not and my email sig. last line reads: Imagine yourself . . .

Just imagine yourself as what you truly want to be and take the path that'll get you there.
 
You have been candid here.

It’s clear to me you are willing to serve in the military, which is also your path to paying for college (nothing wrong with that, perhaps you have earned an ROTC scholarship already, or are planning to apply for one once you get to the unit), you’re not picky about what service, and medicine is by far your primary goal. If that is the case, I recommend against USNA.
 
The U.S. military offers several programs that can help you cover the cost of medical school if you're willing to commit to serving in the military afterwards. Here are the two main options:

  • Health Professions Scholarship Program (HPSP):
    • This is the most popular option for aspiring military doctors.
    • The program pays full tuition for medical school, provides a monthly stipend for living expenses, and covers the cost of required books, fees, and equipment.
    • You'll also receive a signing bonus in some cases.
    • In return, you must commit to serving at least four years on active duty as a commissioned officer in the U.S. Army, Navy, or Air Force (depending on the service branch you choose).
  • Financial Assistance Program (FAP):
    • This program is offered by the Army and provides annual grants and a monthly stipend to cover some of your medical school expenses.
    • The stipend amount may vary.
    • After graduation and residency, you'll be required to serve on active duty in the Army for a minimum period.
Look into HPSP and if doable continue with Brown.
 
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Wife is a Brown alum and I've spent a fair amount of time on campus with her. A few thoughts for you....

My recollection is that the Brown NROTC unit is at Holy Cross in Worcester, MA. Not exactly close to Providence, so think about the logistics associated with that for four years.

Brown is one of the more liberal Ivy campuses. Personally, I was disgusted a couple of years ago when students destroyed the American flag display that was set up on campus to recognize Veterans Day. IMO, the Administration's response was incredibly weak and they have only paid lip service to their support of the military. Their historic admissions stats for veterans was abysmal. They probably had more left-handed double oboe players on campus than veterans. Be prepared to be on an island.
 
Maddogiscrazy said:
Niece went to Cornell. Studied some crazy genetics. Navy snagged her up and sent her to med school at John Hopkins. She’s now an MD and CDR. She goes all over the world traveling with our political leaders as their personal physician for traveling. Kinda cool
Click to expand...
en.wikipedia.org

Attending Physician of the United States Congress - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I haven't thought about the OAP in a while and was amazed finding out how long the current Attending Physician to the US Congress has been in his position. The OAP has numerous personnel and a significant facility which provides free healthcare to members of congress for a small flat fee. I had tangential dealings with that office in planning meetings for a presidential inauguration and a speech to a joint session of congress and in relation to the anthrax attacks on congress in 2001.

On a related note, a neighbor travels with the Secretary of the Navy. He says he's the secretary's personal corpsman. Side note to that: He has the cutest kids ever. Credit to his wife on that.
 
Capt MJ said:
It’s clear to me you are willing to serve in the military, which is also your path to paying for college (nothing wrong with that, perhaps you have earned an ROTC scholarship already, or are planning to apply for one once you get to the unit), you’re not picky about what service, and medicine is by far your primary goal. If that is the case, I recommend against USNA.
Click to expand...
Agree -- Unless you WANT (not just willing) to serve in whatever capacity USN/USMC deems appropriate, go to Brown. The Naval Academy primary purpose is developing Line Officers. Even if you are gifted, selection to the Navy Medical program is a long shot. As I tell my Candidates, don't attend if you are looking for the "free" tuition ... nothing is free.
 
8th Wing Refugee said:
Wife is a Brown alum and I've spent a fair amount of time on campus with her. A few thoughts for you....

My recollection is that the Brown NROTC unit is at Holy Cross in Worcester, MA. Not exactly close to Providence, so think about the logistics associated with that for four years.

Brown is one of the more liberal Ivy campuses. Personally, I was disgusted a couple of years ago when students destroyed the American flag display that was set up on campus to recognize Veterans Day. IMO, the Administration's response was incredibly weak and they have only paid lip service to their support of the military. Their historic admissions stats for veterans was abysmal. They probably had more left-handed double oboe players on campus than veterans. Be prepared to be on an island.
Click to expand...
All the Brown ROTC programs are at other colleges -- AFROTC is also in Worcester. Army ROTC is closer at Providence College. I talked to Brown ROTC students, across Army, Navy, and Air Force, and they talked about the annoyances of travel. I'm not concerned by the travel logistics (though it may be annoying) as I'll jump through the hurdles if that's what I need to do to reach my goal.

I also hear that Brown is extremely liberal. Like the other Ivy leagues, and other general civilian colleges, ROTC and interest in joining the military is small. This is also not a concern to me as I'm not focused on peer response or support, as I know there will always be people with different opinions out there.

Thank you for the response!
 
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