UPT & Pilots From Other Countries
- Thread starter Renegado
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2012
- Messages
- 2,253
All I know is ENJJPT which I assume the US is reimbursed for. Therefore since it was established in the spirit of NATO, I would say no slots are taken from AF pilots as it wouldn't exist but for NATO.
Pima
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 13,900
It is the same as ENJJPT. Their countries pay for them to attend and it is pre-determined what aircraft they will get. It is just like the ANG. Students at UPT that will be going Guard are paid for by the Guard and they know exactly which aircraft they will get upon winging. They are not taking anything away from any ADAF student, except for the wait time to start class.
~ IOWS, UPT can only handle so many students per class, thus when you add in them that means there is less slots for ADAF.
If you think about it this way, many AF pilots do an exchange tour with other countries like Australia. Australia does not pay the tab for them, the AF does. Or if you think about it from a PME aspect. My DH went to CGSC at Leavenworth, not ACSC at Maxwell. His paycheck did not come out of the Army payroll, it stayed with the AF. The school has a long standing that X amount would be from different branches, just like ACSC. They were going to give those spots to the AF no matter what, thus the AF did not take 1 spot away from an Army O4.
~ IOWS, UPT can only handle so many students per class, thus when you add in them that means there is less slots for ADAF.
If you think about it this way, many AF pilots do an exchange tour with other countries like Australia. Australia does not pay the tab for them, the AF does. Or if you think about it from a PME aspect. My DH went to CGSC at Leavenworth, not ACSC at Maxwell. His paycheck did not come out of the Army payroll, it stayed with the AF. The school has a long standing that X amount would be from different branches, just like ACSC. They were going to give those spots to the AF no matter what, thus the AF did not take 1 spot away from an Army O4.
Thank you, Pima. So if there are two foreign pilots in UPT, who are automatically tracking 38s, then that’s two slots the 2LTs don’t get. Is that correct. What if a foreign pilot doesn’t do well? I’m under the impression that they still track 38s regardless? I’m just trying to understand the system.
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2006
- Messages
- 3,958
You can’t think of it as two slots that US pilots don’t get. Those slots are built into each class and are reserved for foreign pilots from non-NATO nations who cannot use ENJJPT.
Yes, those pilots get T-38 slots regardless of their performance and they generally wash back a class or two along the way. Son’s class has two Saudi pilots who started three classes ahead of his and ended up graduating with him. Those countries pay a lot of money for those slots.
Also, one of the proposed plans to increase US pilot production did target those slots to be used by our UPT candidates. However, I’ve heard that they are hesitant to do that because of the goodwill and dollars they provide.
Stealth_81
Yes, those pilots get T-38 slots regardless of their performance and they generally wash back a class or two along the way. Son’s class has two Saudi pilots who started three classes ahead of his and ended up graduating with him. Those countries pay a lot of money for those slots.
Also, one of the proposed plans to increase US pilot production did target those slots to be used by our UPT candidates. However, I’ve heard that they are hesitant to do that because of the goodwill and dollars they provide.
Stealth_81
I think the answer is yes and no, at least from what i read. It isnt so much that they take a fighter spot away, but it more statistical in nature. It seems like in most classes, maybe 3-5 spots are for fighters. That includes foreign pilots and National Guard pilots. So if you had one class with 3 foreign/national guard and they got the three spots and they give another 2 spots to activity duty AF, does that mean if those three werent there, only two spots would be given to that class. Probably
zachtx
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2013
- Messages
- 96
It's kind of a gray area....the T-38 has a set absorption capability it can maintain to still graduate students on time. Without diving too much into the specific numbers, at Vance right now there are X numbers of students taken from each class, and there are Y classes per fiscal year. So, X*Y=total number of students who will go through the T-38 syllabus at Vance in FY18. Of that #, so many of the slots have been sold to Saudi, Iraq, Kenya, etc. A few slots are also bought by the Guard & Reserve, with the rest being Active Duty slots up for competition. Those international/guard/reserve slots are somewhat equally dispersed between those Y classes by AFPC. Due to students rolling back into later classes due to deficiencies/medical/emergency leave/etc, there are sometimes a disproportionate number of slots spoken for in that class when track select comes along. So, while they aren't "taken" from Active Duty, there is an element of luck and timing present as to how many spots we can compete for. To answer your other question, yes those students are guaranteed their T-38 no matter what their MASS in T-6s is, as long as they are able to pass the T-6 syllabus.