US Marines Co-Ed Boot Camp?????

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Because the current Commander in Chief feels that Female Marine's can surrender to the Iranians just as easy as male Marines.
 
the only standard that needs to change is recruiting.
do not recruit women who cannot be successful and there will be no problem.
 
Jcc123 said:
why not for different genders? Its "ok" if a 40yr old man doesn't have the strength to carry someone 100 yds, but not if it's a 22 yr old woman?
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Not weighing in one way or the other regarding CoEd Boot Camp.

As far as the quote above in regard to infantry Marines, or any branch for that matter. If a 40 year old service member is serving in a combat role, they had better be able to carry someone 100 yards, if this person can't do this then I don't see how that would ever be thought of as "ok". A 22 year old serving in a combat role regardless of gender, should absolutely be able to carry someone 100 yards. This shouldn't matter even if the PT standards are different for each gender.
 
I agree @Jcleppe - my point was more to those who yell about "identical standards" when there are already multiple sets of standards.

And there are more 30+ year old folks serving in combat zones than you'd think, many of whom are incapable of dragging a small dog 100 yds.
 
"If the Marine Corps is willing to raise the standards for women in the Corps to the same as men, this whole thing will be a nonissue."
- Terminal Lance
He makes a good case.
 
Jcc123 said:
I think we as a military community need to lose a little of the outrage that's so common over standards, genders, etc., and work to make sure that the policies and programs in place maximize our effectiveness and readiness. Period. Does coed vs non really impact either? I can't see how it would.
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For me physical training does come to mind - a company run and ability group run.

First for the company run, when I was in the Infantry we ran probably 8 or 9 minute per mile. Soldiers fell out the run old and young. I think everybody in an Infantry company should be able to run 8 minute mile. Only one standard. The company run forced "old" soldiers to keep in shape to a degree. So what is a company commander or 1SG supposed to do if a certain group fall out the company run more than any other group?. For the ability group run, there is a fast group, average group, and slow group. Again, if a certain group in the company makes the majority of the "slow" group, how is the commander or 1SG supposed to handle it?

What do we do when human capabilities disagree with policies and programs in place to maximize our effectiveness and readiness? Unfortunately, sometimes a problem has no solution. No policies and programs will overcome physical differences between the weak and the strong. I don't know how true it is but I was told when I attended Airborne school, the required long distance runs became a shuffle as too many female students failed the run. The run was painful for some of us, as it seemed very slow. The question becomes why do airborne soldiers needs to run fast - one way to look at it is a tradition, stamina, physical readiness, or the other way is they don't. Don't need to run 5 miles in 40 minutes to jump out an airplane. However, we need to keep in mind that it's always easier to lower a standard and justify it, but there are always consequences with lowering of any standard.
 
AJC said:
the only standard that needs to change is recruiting.
do not recruit women who cannot be successful and there will be no problem.
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This isn't about capability. It's about representation.
 
Sledge,
I agree with you.
For males and females, what ever the standard, only those that can be successful should be recruited.
In any endeavor it is the responsibility of those in charge to put their people in a position to succeed.
 
@MemberLG I agree with basically everything you said. The point of the thread, though, is coed boot camp, not infantry school, or anything else. The Marines is made up of males and females, and all genders and all MOSs have to attend boot camp. I find it a bit annoying when some folks (@DevilDog - love you, but come on) act like the sky is falling by saying, and I quote "What do those burecrats in DC want to do, soften our most respected band of warriors? When is this PC crap going to end?"

If conducting entry level task training in the vicinity of women is enough to "soften our most respected band of warriors", I'm not sure you can lay claim to the title.
 
Jcc123 said:
@MemberLG I agree with basically everything you said. The point of the thread, though, is coed boot camp, not infantry school, or anything else. The Marines is made up of males and females, and all genders and all MOSs have to attend boot camp. I find it a bit annoying when some folks (@DevilDog - love you, but come on) act like the sky is falling by saying, and I quote "What do those burecrats in DC want to do, soften our most respected band of warriors? When is this PC crap going to end?"

If conducting entry level task training in the vicinity of women is enough to "soften our most respected band of warriors", I'm not sure you can lay claim to the title.
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I should have used the basic training as the example. I wasn't sure how much the basic training has changed. When I was a drill cadet, we did company runs and ability group run. Let us not forget, the basic training is to prepare soldiers, marines, and sailors to join their unit.

I am sure it is not as bad as portrayed in "Full Metal Jacket" movie, but I think it's safe to assume there are still platoon and squad competitions and group "punishments." As much as we think kids are different from us older folks, I think they can be very cruel to others, especially when they perceive that they are not getting something they should or they are getting punished for what someone else did or didn't do.
 
If you don't think training/ standards/ rigor will be changed in Marine Corps Basic Training by fully integrating women, I'll wager you never earned the title of Marine or dealt with the 364 day menstrual cycles when it comes to PT or field exercises pnce you're out in the Fleet..

I don't give a damn if women currently don't get the "same training as men." Standards will be changed if women are to pass the current training, and for that, people's lives will be at bigger risk. That is where politics takes a giant dump on reality.
 
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