Use Me as an Example of what not to do as an ROTC Cadet

Nateman15 said:
Well, since I am contracted, I am binded to the regulations. I am sworn into the reserves with my scholarship.
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I understand this. I'm contracted as well and have been for 3 years. I'm sworn into the reserves with my scholarship as well. I have a nifty ID card too that sits in the back of my wallet collecting dust.

However, my point has been that I'm confused how you can be getting into this serious of trouble over not wearing the proper PPE. There are a bunch of guys in my AROTC battalion that own bikes. They ride them often. We get briefings often about safety on bikes and wearing the proper PPE. In the end, these cadets are not active duty or subject to the binding conditions the AD Army puts on soldiers regarding motorcycles. The PMS can throw a fit all he wants about you not wearing gloves, pants, jacket, helmet, reflector vest, etc. , but until you commission there is much he can do.

I will caveat this by saying it could be service specific. I only commented because I was curious.
 
-Bull-

I think it is service oriented. As an AFROTC cadet you cannot, will not commission if you don't attend SFT.

There is no Reserve or Guard option as an AFROTC cadet. 100% of grads go ADAF, just like NROTC if I am correct.

The weight here is different because of SFT. Not selected for SFT even as a scholarship cadet, they can be dis-enrolled as a soph.

The CoC is AD, and Nate is contracted into the enlisted world, the CoC can if he wants to play the AD card in this economy regarding cutbacks.

Again, I don't think Nate will walk that path, just illustrating how AFROTC is different in many ways.

I hope Nate feels better regarding we are here for him.
 
As a motorcycle rider and health care worker who has seen the after effects in the ER I hope you do learn from this.

That being said thanks for sharing your story and manning up to your cadre :thumb:
 
I'm glad the tone of this thread turned around. I was starting think maybe it wasn't a good idea to post my story. I'm glad you all are seeing the reason behind me sharing my experience. Us young guys need a reminder every once in while that this stuff isn't a joke. Being in ROTC is serious business and you can't take it lightly. Like I said, I got comfortable with where I was at and lost that edge that keeps you on your game.

Another example is that I am good friends with multiple POC. Any of us could very easily say something wrong in a conversation with them and things could go bad. I'm sure i'm not the only one that has experienced this, but it is when things are relaxed and comfortable that you get sloppy.

Kind of a different style thread, but I feel like it is important stuff. :thumb:
 
OP, glad you posted. I was really surprised by the post #3, but didn't jump on it b/c I figured everyone reading it would think is was BS and not worth taking up internet bandwith to comment on.

The core issue is JUDGMENT. Whether something is a binding regulation or not, cadre write up their assessment on the suitbability of a cadet to serve as an Officer. If something a cadet does shows poor judment, legal or not, that's a big deal. Because when the SH%t hits the fan, soldiers/airmen need officers who will make sound command judgments. In Army ROTC, the PMS also has a couple of sections where he/she scores the cadet, and that becomes part of the OMS. Examples of bad judgment reduce that score significantly.

You partially mitigated your bad judgment in not wearing a helmet showing good judgment in visiting your commander the next day and making sure you were both on the same page going forward. You also show leadership by posting your example here for other cadets to learn from.
 
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dunninla said:
OP, glad you posted. I was really surprised by the post #3, but didn't jump on it b/c I figured everyone reading it would think is was BS and not worth taking up internet bandwith to comment on.

The core issue is JUDGMENT. Whether something is a binding regulation or not, cadre write up their assessment on the suitbability of a cadet to serve as an Officer. If something a cadet does shows poor judment, legal or not, that's a big deal. Because when the SH%t hits the fan, soldiers/airmen need officers who will make sound command judgments. In Army ROTC, the PMS also has a couple of sections where he/she scores the cadet, and that becomes part of the OMS. Examples of bad judgment reduce that score significantly.

You partially mitigated your bad judgment in not wearing a helmet showing good judgment in visiting your commander the next day and making sure you were both on the same page going forward. You also show leadership by posting your example here for other cadets to learn from.
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Spot on with the judgement thing.

I learned so much from this forum back during my USAFA application days. I just didn't post much because I was learning and not in a position to post. I just want to do my part and help a few people out. :thumb:

Air Power

stephen_strut.gif
 
Nateman15 said:
I just want to do my part and help a few people out. :thumb:

Air Power

stephen_strut.gif
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+1 :thumb: Thanks again for sharing.

P.S I once worked with a guy who was Willy T. Wildcat for football and basketball seasons at K-State. He told a story about recruiting a ROTC cadet to repel from the scoreboard in the basketball arena before a big game. After a beautiful display for the crowd the cadet (wearing the head of the costume) ran off off to the locker room. My friend then put the costume back on and continued to rave up the crowd. I hear it was legendary.
 
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jbsail said:
You hear about this:
http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/news/2012/sep/27/former-buford-standout-seriously-injured-in/
(Perhaps your COC is watching out for his group)
Read it again if you read it a few weeks ago.
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For USAFA the rules are slightly different, given that we are not allowed to ride any sort of mortorcycle, ATV, etc. while we are cadets. Devin Durden actually passed away due to his injuries earlier in October. He was disenrolled from and left the academy prior to his death (and thus needed to serve enlisted time to repay his commitment), but he was still under academy regulations - including the ban on motorcyle use - until 60 days after the disenrollment was handed down.
 
Wow, I saw the thread title and here I am the whole time thinking you did something like get an underage girl pregnant, start a drug ring, misuse government funds, lead a cheating scandal, or bring shame and discredit to the military service. But no, you did something far worse... you rode a motorcycle without a helmet. God forbid...
 
Pima said:
I have to say I get what Packer was saying.
To me this is a teachable moment, not a slam a poster moment.


I have PM'd him to explain what was behind the question.
After being explicitly ordered not to, did it anyway.
Being a motorcycle rider who have had close calls and also witnessed too many times how many unfortunate riders are brought to our trauma center with or without wearing a helmet, I wanted to get his perspective.
I thanked him for sharing his experience and wished him the best.
What drew me to this forum is the honest and wise advice dispensed without sugarcoating.
If it came across as a slam, It wasn't meant to.
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jbsail said:
Not being hard on you, learn from this mishap, learn to be humble, and follow 'basic' instructions.

You hear about this:
http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/news/2012/sep/27/former-buford-standout-seriously-injured-in/
(Perhaps your COC is watching out for his group)
Read it again if you read it a few weeks ago.



Perhaps the look your COC was a highly puzzled/'kid isn't getting it' look that you would try to dress up and defend your character and judgement for breaking rules after a briefing the day before.

Your wing position ('one of the highest' in your group) should be taken away.

You can't defend your the absolute one of the best, you f'ed -up. Apologize and state you will work on following instructions.




You just had a briefing, and couldn't obey a simple instruction. What other instructions have you broken that the COC has not seen?

Unless your group has a bunch of f'-ups, you certainly proved you haven't worked hard enough to hold a top leadership position. I am sure there is at least 1 other member that can move ahead of you into your 'one of the highest' flight leadership positions.

Practice some humility buddy.
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You might want to re-read your post, and...

Practice some restraint buddy.
 
Jcleppe said:
You might want to re-read your post, and...

Practice some restraint buddy.
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Jcleppe... when I read that I assumed jbsail must be an 18 year old kid who still sees the world as basically black and white. Real world experience will take care of that.
 
Jcleppe said:
You might want to re-read your post, and...

Practice some restraint buddy.
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Jcleppe, nope.

dunninla said:
Jcleppe... when I read that I assumed jbsail must be an 18 year old kid who still sees the world as basically black and white. Real world experience will take care of that.
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Negative.


The kid knows he messed up (embarrassed too), all the posts (except the posts slamming posters) on the first page are good to get the kid thinking on the right track. Board is to help, not slam each other, most of us are officers too. Pima was honest, losing his leadership position is logical with this lapse directly after a training session (unless his whole group is a total f'up that the CoC wants to give a leadership position). It is not the end of the world with him and his CoC. His CoC I'm sure doesn't think less of his character/judgement for this one item, puzzled probably.

Good comments from FalconGirl for the OP. Another good read for the kid is the article about the Penn St ROTC kid that got kicked out. Other kids on campus may want to do stuff, but you have to think about your responsibilities before going forward.
 
JBSail,

The title of the thread and the very first sentence of Nateman15's first post were self-explanatory. Clearly his post was intended to be helpful to other cadets. How exactly were you helpful? Unless you are campaigning against motorcycles, the article you cited about Devin Durden was irrelevant. Durden succumbed to the injuries he suffered, which was caused by the 18 year old driver. Nothing to do with helmets.

Your first post was offensive, and your recent post was defensive. Maybe you're a two-way football player, but contrary to your assertion, I doubt you are an officer. Neither are most of the posters on SAF.

You ought to act on your own recommendation and practise some humility yourself.
 
Just as a side note, the cadets at DS's detachment are also required to wear helmets when riding their bicycles.
 
I dont disagree with what jbsail had to say, it just wasn't the point of this thread to further point out how I screwed up. I'm well aware of that. Lol.

I wouldn't doubt it if it is required for us to wear helmets on bicycles, it just hasn't been told to us.
 
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