USNA COMPLETES PHYSICS EXAM INVESTIGATION

The crickets on the forum after the extensive conversation about the USMA cheating scandal is interesting. "Honor Concept?"
 
Honor should be an open discussion. My class now has a stain that will follow us forever (probably). Ask away. I'm sure the other mids as well as myself will be open to share what we know.
 
Skipper07 said:
Honor should be an open discussion. My class now has a stain that will follow us forever (probably). Ask away. I'm sure the other mids as well as myself will be open to share what we know.
Click to expand...
I can appreciate these real incidents that happen in your own backyard take concepts that might seem to be black and white in an abstract and distant way right into your discomfort zone. Rest assured there have been many long conversations in senior leadership offices as they wrestle with the right path through the maze, seeking to be consistent, looking at past precedents and ones that might be set, what’s right for the institution, the individual mid, to what extent COVID and its many layers of impact was or was not a mitigating factor…and on and on. Leadership and decision-making in these instances are hard going and the path forward is not always beautifully and clearly lit. No matter the decisions made, I am sure the pressure was immense, and in this case, as in most things these days, the emails, letters and social media “helpful advice” from bystanders has been plentiful.

In the Fleet and Corps, as a JO, you’ll run into smaller scale ethical issues that will challenge you in the same way, messy, ambiguous, up close and personal. Good people can do bad things.

I appreciate your thoughtful post. If you and your classmates are thinking about it and perhaps discussing it, then that is a part of the growth process. There is also an element of grieving as people’s feet of clay are right out there for you to see. You are not taking this lightly; that is a measure of your worth. You and your classmates will get through this together. The lessons you have absorbed will come back to you when you find yourself in a situation, or find yourself adjudicating one, where the ethical envelope feels elastic - but it’s likely not.
 
Last edited:
A1Janitor said:
There is no stain on 2023. The stain is on the cheaters.
Click to expand...

Completely agree. I was not a fan of how USMA handled the cheating in Math 104. I do wonder how this topic has been completely glossed over when the conversation was heated on the USMA board.

Edited to add - not a huge conversation on the post about shot gunning. So many were all over how USMA handled it and now when the scandal is in their yard, let's just get a GIANT rug and sweep.

Were there turn backs? What was the composition of the cheaters - athletes or regular Mids?
 
Last edited:
Skipper07 said:
Honor should be an open discussion. My class now has a stain that will follow us forever (probably). Ask away. I'm sure the other mids as well as myself will be open to share what we know.
Click to expand...
Nah, not the first and won't be the last "scandal."

Does anybody remember which class was involved in the urinal scandal? Nope. I had to look it up

www.latimes.com

Midshipman Recalls Her Rough Seas at Annapolis : Harassment: Resignation from the U.S. Naval Academy after male colleagues handcuffed her to a urinal has brought unwanted attention to the 19-year-old Encinitas woman.

Gwen Marie Dreyer figured she had two choices on that cold December afternoon when two male midshipmen handcuffed her to a bathroom urinal in a U.S.
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com
 
I don’t want to get off the thread topic, though there are any number of honor and conduct scandals to dish the scuttlebutt on, going back years, aided and abetted by the fact a SA scandal will almost always be more enduringly in the spotlight than State U. This despite years and years of routinely not having scandals and producing fine grads.
 
Capt MJ said:
I don’t want to get off the thread topic, though there are any number of honor and conduct scandals to dish the scuttlebutt on, going back years, aided and abetted by the fact a SA scandal will almost always be more enduringly in the spotlight than State U. This despite years and years of routinely not having scandals and producing fine grads.
Click to expand...
True. I was responding to Skipper's post about the stain on his class from cheating on tests. Nobody remembers Urinalgate so another cheating scandal will surely not be remembered. Plus, there's the higher standards, America's finest, and the cost per student compared to the State U. graduates that intensifies the scrutiny.

Preaching to the choir I know.
 
I don’t think it’s been swept under the rug. Plenty of articles and comments. Not sure where I saw it, but it had a full break down of gender, race, athletes, etc. of the offenders. Not sure what remediation entailed for this. For the rare few who had remediation in my day, it was very much up to the mentor assigned what the remediation looked like. USNA has not typically used a turn back year for honor like USMA has. Generally, if someone was retained it was remediation and in the extreme rare case, a 1/C with an offense and being retained, possibly a delayed grad after remediation completion (I think I saw this once). It’s been in the news for awhile. I am glad they tossed Mids. Wish they would of tossed more, but also as one of those who lived in Mother B, I know it’s more complex than what many of us see in the articles.

I attended USNA when an honor offense was likely a removable offense from USNA. Not 100%, but close. We had a few honor offenses amongst my company that entailed company mate turning in another company mate. It got ugly. To this day, our company is very divided, even years after we graduated. We lived by these very strict rules… the honor concept and do not bilge your classmate, which are in contrast to each other. I am a firm believer in a strict honor concept, but I also know what it is like to live by it and the dynamics involved in Mother B.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top