USNA vs USAFA for flying

You restricted AO aviators don't have a clue. You haven't flown until you have to go out for a night medevac to 40k tons of bobbing steel and the flight deck is climbing faster than you can with a full armpit of collective followed by dropping faster than you can autorotate. Also, on nights such as this, there is obviously zero horizon. They can keep the dime and you can only hope and pray that it doesn't cost you any more.

Yea, been there done that,, got carrier qualified back in 84.. Fun roller coaster ride

Try dropping in a Jungle penetrator from a side winch in 50 Kts Gusting winds, thunder and lightning, heavy driving rain, only visibility is just outside your door down to the tree tops that your skids are resting in,, on the side of a mountain,, while Charlie is taking pot shots at you....

AHHH and I can’t believe they actually paid me to do this!
:biggrin:
 
QUOTE=scoutpilot;142324]
PS: It's all in good fun, no one get your knickers in a twist.[/QUOTE]

ScoutPilot you said it, it is all in good fun, the reality is that we belong to an exclusive common fraternity, regardless of whether you can hover or not, that few people will ever be able to claim... May you never run out of ground speed ..OH wait ,,that doesn't bother me, well may all your runways be long! OH wait that doesn’t bother me either humm, may all your takeoff runways be into the wind! Oh gee, well, you know what I mean :beer1:[
 
Try dropping in a Jungle penetrator from a side winch in 50 Kts Gusting winds, thunder and lightning, heavy driving rain, only visibility is just outside your door down to the tree tops that your skids are resting in,, on the side of a mountain,, while Charlie is taking pot shots at you....

Been there, done that. Top this. Crewman took the chain stop off the door gun and stayed fixated on the target through an 89.5 degree approach turn.
 
^^^^ Ha! Exactly! :biggrin:
Did anyone besides me watch that Monty Python clip, then waste 10 minutes watching more Monty Python clips? They're addictive! :rolleyes:
 
This whole thread reminds me of an old Monty Python routine where these Yorkshire men reflect on their past, each trying to convince the others how bad they had.
Oh, you're just jealous because you cannot play since you weren't an unrestricted Naval Aviator.
LOW FLIGHT
Oh, I've slipped the surly bonds of earth
And hovered out of ground effect on semi-rigid blades;
Earthward I've auto'ed and met the rising brush of non-paved terrain
And done a thousand things you would never care to
Skidded and dropped and flared
Low in the heat soaked roar.
Confined there, I've chased the earthbound traffic
And lost the race to insignificant headwinds;
Forward and up a little in ground effect
I've topped the General's hedge with drooping turns
Where never Skyhawk or even Phantom flew.
Shaking and pulling collective,
I've lumbered The low untresspassed halls of victor airways,
Put out my hand and touched a tree.

—Anonymous
 
Oh, you're just jealous because you cannot play since you weren't an unrestricted Naval Aviator.

A-7's off USS Nimitz, CAG-8.

We only flew when it was night and the deck was pitching - and we launched with only half a tank of gas - with no tanker and no bingo field. And that's the way we liked it! Auto-rotate - pfft! Luxury!
 
Yep, just as I suspected. A restricted aviator where every emergency procedure ended in "Eject".

Funny!

Actually - that's pretty much true.

When I was midshipman, during 2/C summer (ProTraMid), we all got a chance to manipulate the controls of a helicopter at Whiting. WAAAY too many moving parts! I wanted to fly jets - not because it was cooler - but, because it seemed easier.
 
I never knew we had a choice.

Somebody once asked me in an interview - What criteria must be met for an act to be truly COURAGEOUS?

I decided that it had to fulfill the following five criteria:
1) The act must involve some obvious and significant risk.
2) The act cannot facilitate any kind of immoral activity.
3) The act must not be motivated by some kind of personal gain.
4) It cannot be one's duty to perform the act.
5) There must be a choice to not perform the act.

Auto-rotating a helicopter to safety is not "courageous" because it fails criteria #4 & #5. One could also argue that it fails #3 because you stand to personally gain by staying alive -or- you may be motivated to earn an "Air Medal" -or- by getting an article dedicated to you by Grandpa Pettibone.
 
Somebody once asked me in an interview - What criteria must be met for an act to be truly COURAGEOUS?

I decided that it had to fulfill the following five criteria:
1) The act must involve some obvious and significant risk.
2) The act cannot facilitate any kind of immoral activity.
3) The act must not be motivated by some kind of personal gain.
4) It cannot be one's duty to perform the act.
5) There must be a choice to not perform the act.

Auto-rotating a helicopter to safety is not "courageous" because it fails criteria #4 & #5. One could also argue that it fails #3 because you stand to personally gain by staying alive -or- you may be motivated to earn an "Air Medal" -or- by getting an article dedicated to you by Grandpa Pettibone.

Of course you are forgetting that making the life/career CHOICE to pursue flight in a highly fragile and inescapable airframe to begin with meets all 5 of those criteria.

Also, by your definition, a soldier or Marine who charges an enemy fighting position is not courageous, as it is the mission of the infantry to close with and destory the enemy, and he is therefore merely doing his duty.
 
Of course you are forgetting that making the life/career CHOICE to pursue flight in a highly fragile and inescapable airframe to begin with meets all 5 of those criteria.

Also, by your definition, a soldier or Marine who charges an enemy fighting position is not courageous, as it is the mission of the infantry to close with and destory the enemy, and he is therefore merely doing his duty.

That would be a courageous act if, by not charging the enemy, the soldier would not be open to criticism for not performing his "duty." What if there were a less expedient, more surgical way to dispense with the enemy? If the soldier had no choice but to "charge" - then I don't see how it is courageous. Even a trapped animal will lash out in its own self-defense when flight is not an option.

It has to be above and beyond the call of duty. The "Medal of Valor" is not typically given to those who do their job - even if they do it very well. At some point in the execution of their "duty", they must have been presented an option that, had they not taken it, they would have not been open to criticism for failure to perform their "duty."

For instance, nobody expects somebody to jump on a hand grenade. It's not really considered your "duty."

If a wounded comrade is lying in the middle of an open field during an intense fire fight - nobody would be critical if you failed to run out into that open field and drag him back to safety. It really wouldn't be your duty to perform such an act since the likely outcome would be your own death with little likelihood of success of saving the wounded soldier. In fact, it could easily result in two wounded soldiers in an open field thus, in effect, depleting the effective force of the overall group. Yet, running out into that open field would be courageous because it is unreasonable to expect that to be somebody's duty.

If a Private were ordered to run out into the field and attempt to save the wounded soldier, it then becomes his duty to do so and, therefore, by (my) definition, can no longer be "courageous." The choice was removed when the order was given. Would he have done it on his own volition?

Gosh - this is fun! :smile:
 
How does Naval/Marine Corp Aviation training work compared to AF?

If you don't really know, please don't answer with guesses. Too much misinformation/guessing these days on the internet. If you know of a link already that has this info please share. I searched the forums a bit before asking and I've looked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Naval_Aviator so some of this has been answered a little in a generic sense.

Son found out from MoC rep he's getting a nom to USAFA and USNA and now he's asking me questions I don't know the answers to.

What percent of Navy/Marine corps students get tracked into helis and what's that training path consist of?

What are the timelines for training and track decisions for each branch these days AND what percentages are washing out of each branch of service these days and what percentage of Navy/Marine corp aviators are being shunted to helicopters, and at what phase does that occur, etc.?

Also, when answering, state aircraft used at each stage and lenth of stage please.

I was AF UPT and that was an easy, straightforward process at the time. Ground, T-37s, a little more ground, T-38s, wings, then on to next base and next flying assignment. About a third washed out on average. Most released back into the civilian world unless you were something like an engineer the AF wanted. Some recommended for Nav training. About 5 to 8 out of 20ish that made it from the ~30 that started were FAR'd. Each new class started about a month apart. Most would get F-16s if FAR'd but that of course was all up to what was available. But that's the kind of stuff we are interested in these days.

AF helicopters was all voluntary and you went directly to Fort Rucker and after graduation from Army training you went to Kirtland AFB NM (or something like that) for AF helo brainwashing. An air force heli pilot told me it was not uncommon for a fair amount not to pass the AF part of the heli program. I don't think you got AF wings for helo until you passed the AF part of the program.

Back then Navy fixed wing program seemed much longer to get your wings, more stages, different bases before you got your wings, etc.
 
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