USNA vs. USMA

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by Alice19, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. Alice19

    Alice19 Banned

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    Hi,

    I`m a sophomore so I still have a little while before I can apply, but I`m trying to decide which I really want to attend.....I`m torn between the Army and Marines. I just really don`t know which. I love things about both of them. Say I DID get appointed to both, how should I choose which one? :confused:

    Another question, Is it alright if I just did AP Chemistry and Honors Physics instead of both, because I don`t think I`ll be able to do both AP Chem and Physics. Would it be more beneficial to do AP Chem and AP Calc, or AP Chem and AP Physics?

    Thank you.
     
  2. stlcards2012

    stlcards2012 Member

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    About the AP classes, take what you think you can handle and excel in. My school is a small private school and I will only be able to take two AP classes (English and History) by the time I graduate this year. However, according to some of the liaison officers I have an extremely competitive application.

    Do I wish I could have taken more AP classes? Oh yes.
    Should you choose an AP class and overburden yourself? No, focus on getting good grades, getting in top shape, developing your leadership, and preparing for the SAT and ACT.

    Just my humble opinion:)
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  3. Melitzank

    Melitzank Member

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    Couldn`t agree more.

    Take what you feel you can handle. What`ll get you good grades? You wouldn`t want to take AP Chem and AP Physics/and or Calc and get C`s or D`s in all of them.
     
  4. Team Mom

    Team Mom Member

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    If possible, take AP Calc and AP Chem and get A's! You might be able to validate Chem and Calc at USNA. Sorry, I only know about USNA.
     
  5. 2012Cadet

    2012Cadet Member

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    At USMA, you take validation tests for both of these sometime during the first 3 weeks of Beast, which scores are then considered along with AP scores in determining validation and/or advanced level class placement.
     
  6. Alice19

    Alice19 Banned

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    Thanks everyone, for the input!
     
  7. BigNick

    BigNick Member

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    Remember that if you go to the USNA you have no guarantee that you will be commissioned in the Marines. I am told that about 16% of each class go to the Marines - the remaining 84% go to the Navy.
     
  8. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Alice19, if you do some research here and in the ROTC forums there is alot of information about Army vs. Marines. I think you will find alot of information in those discussions and may help clear some things up. There are major differences between the services to include culture, selection process, MOSs, career paths, etc.

    Major differences are that there is no guarantee of selecting Marines from USNA. If you want to be a Marine and do the right things (decent grades, strong military performance grades, good PT scores, Leatherneck, Semper Fi Club) the chances of you getting Marines from USNA are very high. The other difference is that if you went Army, you would know what Branch you are before you leave West Point. You will not know this answer as a Marine until about 1/2-2/3 complete with TBS. Are you interested in flying in the Army or Marines? Big differences as in the Army you will fly helos, minus the rare exception from my understanding. Marines you can fly helos, C-130s or jets.

    I hope this helps and some of those previous threads clear up some things.
     
  9. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I agree 100% with Navyhoops. Explore the MOSs. Also, keep in mind that as a Marine you can still spend an awful lot of time cooped up on ship in MAGTF.
    Finally, if you join the Army you can eventually get out, but being a Marine is forever. There are no former Marines! :smile:
     
  10. AcademyHopeful_50

    AcademyHopeful_50 Member

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    The Marines receive their paychecks from the Navy :p

    The opportunities in the Navy/Marines allow for infantry, fixed-wing or rotary-wing aviation, and armor (to an extent), as well as special forces opportunities such as MARSOC and SEALS/SWCC, and of course EOD. Also, one cannot possibly forget the plethora of Navy opportunities at sea.

    As for the Army, it is of course much more land-oriented. However, there are nearly limitless opportunities to branch into. Infantry, armor, artillery, rotary-wing aviation, special warfare, supply corps, signal corps, engineers, and even finance, to name a few... Of course, you don't have the fixed-wing aviation opportunities nor do you have the sea opportunities. You do however have much more choices as far as land-based branches.

    My dad is an '85 grad of USNA and has told me that USNA is much more oriented towards training you to become a career naval officer, while USMA trains you not only to be an Army officer but to be a good citizen afterwards. Different philosophies I suppose, but I guess it's how you look at it.

    Also, I think USNA is more engineering/technical oriented, but that may just be internet conjecture, as both have good engineering majors.

    Last but not least, every USNA/USMA and Navy/Army officer I have talked to has told me that the Navy is more about the technology and technical side of things, i.e the billion-dollar aircraft carrier or the hundred-million-dollar nuclear reactor, whereas the Army is more about the people, i.e LEADING. Again, people will probably look at this and either agree or disagree, but this is just what I have gleamed from graduates of both institutions.

    Both services and academies are on the same team, and both do their jobs incredibly well.

    I hope to see you at either USMA or USNA one day:)
     
  11. Alice19

    Alice19 Banned

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    Thank you BigNick, NavyHoops, Kinnem, and Mooradin. I appreciate all the input and that helps. I`ll definitely keep researching and exploring my options.
     
  12. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    That might be true in some years. For 2011, and I'll have to check this when i get to the office Monday, about 25% went Marine -- Ground and Air combined.
     
  13. filiberto2

    filiberto2 Member

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    Another factor to consider is the military training. At NASS I talked with a 1st class mid who planned on going into the Marines, and he mentioned being jealous of the opportunities afforded to USMA cadets, who train in small unit tactics and combined arms operations during their summers.

    I can't say I know too much about the summer training opportunities at USNA, but I'd imagine that they would be lean more towards preparing the mids as Naval officers as opposed to Infantry officers in the USMC, at least for your first two summers as a mid.
     
  14. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    I had a chance to look up the Service Assignment stats for the USNA for 2011 (Total 1035). Marines were 26%. Exact stats as follows:

    USNA 11
    Assigned /// # /// %
    Pilot /// 227 /// 30%
    Naval Flight Officer /// 75 /// 10%
    Surface (Conventional) /// 225 /// 29%
    Surface (Nuclear) /// 32 /// 4%
    Submarines (8 women) /// 132 /// 17%
    SEAL /// 30 /// 4%
    EOD /// 14 /// 2%
    Restricted Line /// 22 /// 3%
    Medical Student /// 10 /// 1%
    Total Navy /// 767 /// 74%

    Marine Corps Ground /// 190 /// 71%
    Marine Corps Air /// 78 /// 29%
    Total Marine Corps /// 268 /// 26%

    Here is how the US Military Academy assigned its cadets that same year:
    USMA Branch Assignments 2011 (total 1070) Note: 19 of the Assignees below were transferred later into Med School Non-Deferred.

    Branch ../.. # ../.. %
    Air Defense Artillery ../.. 51 ../.. 5%
    Adjutant Gen (HR) ../.. 29 ../.. 3%
    Armor ../.. 83 ../.. 8%
    Aviation ../.. 114 ../.. 11%
    Bio/Rad/Nuc Chemical ../.. 11 ../.. 1%
    Engineer ../.. 148 ../.. 14%
    Field Artillery ../.. 147 ../.. 14%
    Finance ../.. 7 ../.. 1%
    Infantry ../.. 230 ../.. 21%
    Intelligence ../.. 69 ../.. 6%
    Military Police ../.. 20 ../.. 2%
    Medical Specialist ../.. 20 ../.. 2%
    Ordnance ../.. 41 ../.. 4%
    Quartermaster (logistics) ../.. 30 ../.. 3%
    Signal ../.. 46 ../.. 4%
    Transportation ../.. 24 ../.. 2%
    1070

    So, while a mid at USNA may not get Marines, a cadet at USMA may not get one of the "Combat Arms" (now called Maneuver, Fires and Effects - MFE) branches either... though certainly a vast majority DO get assigned into Combat Arms branches.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
  15. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Have you seen any data that indicates where on the USNA OML a particular assignment was filled? Such as the last person to get pilot was number XX?
     
  16. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    No, haven't seen that. The numbers I posted came from a mid who posted them on the Board last year, and I input them into a spreadsheet...

    Here's the thing though... at USNA, as opposed to AROTC which I think you're more familiar with, the process isn't just OML... it involves a lot more of "the needs of the Navy". If Subs is under-requested on first round, then a sort of moralsuasive bargaining ensues throughout a couple of months, at the end of which the correct number "volunteers" is attained. A cash bonus is established as well. I think a couple of years ago the Subs had a $30k bonus attached to it. And sometimes mids near the very top of the OML are exactly those that the Nuc community wants the most. Really smart mids toward the top of the OML, who have dreamed of being a Pilot since they were 10 years old, always have in the back of their mind they might get that little tap on the shoulder asking them to reconsider subs... if you get my drift.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
  17. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Interesting. I was not aware of the use of bonuses to persuade one to "pick the right field".
     
  18. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Bonese eh? Now that's pathetic.

    I understand the us of a signing bonus to attract private sector experts to say... join as a lawyer, doctor, pharmacist etc....


    but to pay a bonus for someone to branch a certain way, bah humbug.
     
  19. Polaris

    Polaris Member

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    As taxpayers we should a little upset with this practice. An individual receives a $350k free education and then we have to give them a $30k taxpayer bonus to get them to branch a certain speciality? What about how USMA does it, pick your top 3 and you get what you get based upon grades, class standing and needs of the service.
     
  20. Alice19

    Alice19 Banned

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    dunninla, thank you for all of that helpful information. So since they`re trying to fill slots, what would they want females to go in? And since not everyone is getting their first choice, would it be more beneficial to list my first choice as second? Or is it just the Navy making the Midshipmen go into a field, not necessarily in any order?
     

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