VADM Fowler's response to Fleming (NYT)

I still think that the active-duty service obligation be made closer to 10 years. And yes, affirmative action is wrong :cool:

"Once upon a time" I trained a bunch of French AF pilots...that was actually a LOT of fun! Their flight rules were a TAD different from ours...we did some things...well, similar things are on youtube...had we done it in the USAF...I'd be greeting folks at Walmart.

But...back to the topic...

Their SA graduates were SHOCKED we had such a short commitment...as I recall, for graduates of the French AFA...it was....

25 years.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
You should check on this. As I understand it - it counts AFTER retirement. You can not retire at 16 years, but when you retire at 20 -- your student time kicks in and you now have 24 years.

Wrong!! No way!! Has never happened. Way way back, one could join the reserves the day before reporting to a SA and then it would count, but no longer. Twenty years after graduation, one retires at the twenty year rate (50%). Ex-enlisted, of course, get credit for previous enlisted time.
 
USNA time never, ever counts for anything toward retirement. NAPS time does. And, certain grad school time (e.g., Med School at USUHS) may count under certain circumstances.

At USNA, Mids are commissioned as midshipmen in the USN -- not at USNA. Thus, they are on active duty by any definition. However, that AD time doesn't count toward retirement -- ever.

I can't speak for the other services but believe they have the same approach -- other than maybe the Merchant Marine.
 
NAPS counts for all. Prior enlisted get their time as enlisted plus their NAPS time.
 
"Once upon a time" I trained a bunch of French AF pilots...that was actually a LOT of fun! Their flight rules were a TAD different from ours...we did some things...well, similar things are on youtube...had we done it in the USAF...I'd be greeting folks at Walmart.

But...back to the topic...

Their SA graduates were SHOCKED we had such a short commitment...as I recall, for graduates of the French AFA...it was....

25 years.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

Why not make it 25 years at the SAs here too? :cool:

I'm sure it would truly make people think twice about what they were getting into :)
 
Does NAPS time count for all NAPSters or only the ex-enlisted?

USMAPS time counts for Invitational Reservists (out of High School) now on active duty at Ft. Monmouth, and Prior Service enlisted Prepsters now at Ft. Monmouth, they'll have 10 months of AD credit. Not sure about NAPS.

Back on topic,

When Fowler credited so many high level USNA graduated Naval Officers that were USNA athletes in his rebuttal, I wonder how many were involved, that didn't have a "Pro" contract waiting with "recruiting duty" a possibility? That or at least use that argument to get them to attend the academy when recruiting? That is a valid question because I think most here understand the value of athletics in college. Also, lets not cloud the issue here, the issue is "Race" and "favoritism", pure and simple.

Fowler might have been the guy in place when the stars aligned and the "systemic" issues were coming to light but, he sure as hell shouldn't have given a pass to a player that was recommended for separation by the Dean, with so much [albeit reported] evidence. The player in question is on record as to saying he did smoke the cigar so that we know is true.
Fowler made the light of Diversity at the academy his defining moment by his practices/choice with orders from the CNO, it will be his legacy now. Yes, the CNO helped and an argument could be made that both men [possibly] benefited more than most of their Generation in the Navy from the "old ways", that they now claim they want to stamp out. I think most would agree that the "old ways" were being phased out by at least the mid '70's. As a former enlisted Marine from the the early '80's, I can tell you there was in fact no room for any shape or form of racism, Marines were Marines.

For an outsider like myself, one that has been involved with DS and DD in the college application process for the last 4 years; and having been involved with a NJROTC unit as a parent chaperon and volunteer for literally dozens of out of town college fairs or overnight visits to Naval bases (Mayport, Kingsbay, USNA and NASJAX), the glaring hypocrisy and double standards are reaching a head. I've witnessed Academy representatives (Marine Captain, Navy LT AD and many retired) say things to a group of high school students that made everyone in the room very uncomfortable. I've heard the words "did he [or she] actually say that?" and it all came from the top, Fowler and Roughead. I've actually been told here that: (paraphrase) the ones that complain the most, are the ones that being targeted the most. Yeah, NS, it's called an unfair system and not constitutional seeing that it's funded by US Taxpayers dollars! The convenient insinuations of "racism" usually get the discussion shut down but, that doesn't change the fact that the policy is wrong and the new Supe will have to repair the damage done.

Even though I didn't attend the Naval Academy, or have a child there that I can live vicariously through, I was intimately involved in their application process over the last 3 years and, it's stinks with hypocrisy!

JMHO :wink:
 
Their SA graduates were SHOCKED we had such a short commitment...as I recall, for graduates of the French AFA...it was....

25 years.
Considering the French only have 4 planes and work 2 hours a day....their commitment is not too much different than ours. :cool:
 
Considering the French only have 4 planes and work 2 hours a day....their commitment is not too much different than ours. :cool:
:rofl:

We make a lot of jokes about the French, and MANY they've earned.

But that squadron (FYI, has something like 12 planes) was VERY good...the only differences between them and us were:

a. They could legally fly a LOT more "relaxed" than we
b. WINE with their Box Nasties!!! :eek:
c. A habit of handing you your second, er, sixth glass of wine after dinner and kissing your cheek...of course, after about 6, er, however many glasses of really GOOD French wine...eh, who cared?

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
a. They could legally fly a LOT more "relaxed" than we
Many moons ago, I spent a couple of nights aboard a British carrier. The bar was just below the roundown (The aft end of the flight deck) so one could have a drink while watching his squadron mates trapping. It did make for some interesting ‘debriefs’ when the pilot finally showed up for his ‘nerve’ medicine.

Someone who recently cruised aboard the Charles de Gaulle said that the French are indeed a lot more relaxed.
 
Emsa said:
I do think VADM Fowler has definately been sadled with a lot of blame for systemic problems that were not of his creation.
You are not alone.

Played golf this weekend with a group of graduates senior enough to remember the last several Supts but still active and observing the quality of the end product. If anyone remembers the inauspicious events of last twenty years are so, they state that since Admiral Larson left, there has been an overall erosion of trust toward midshipmen. The ‘we vs. they’ mentality has prevailed. Since all service academy grads are social ******* anyway, the immaturity and lack of judgement of recent has become even more pronounced.

Everything is cyclical. The pendulum swings. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If it hasn’t happened in your organization, don’t be smug but learn from the problems of others because someday it will happen to you.

Perhaps the new honor concept changes and a few other directives are indicators that the above trend has been recognized and that the pendulum might be swinging back toward neutral.
 
I do think VADM Fowler has definately been sadled with a lot of blame for systemic problems that were not of his creation.

I'm not an expert on all that has gone wrong either on or before his tenure, but let's just for the sake of discussion assume that you're right, and that Fowler had NOTHING to do with what's he's been "saddled" with.

Guess what? IT DOESN'T MATTER. Passing the buck is what politicians and other children do. LEADERS FIX WHAT'S BROKEN, and do so FAST.

I'm afraid that he either didn't do that or, as you mentioned, didn't do that hot of a job communicationg what he WAS doing. Either way, anything remaining when he leaves IS his fault, especially since, as the CO of the station, he doesn't need to ask permission from anyone to make changes.
 
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