Varsity Sports

I agree with napjim as a XC and track runner I myself I definitely feel like it's a team sport however to the SAs, they are not. They are not considered as highly as other sports like basketball, soccer, football, etc,. However earning a varsity letter is still great.
 
jazjar said:
So an academic letter or an orchestra letter wouldn't count? I hope at least participating counts, and I would probably have to make up for the fact that I don't have a letter by showing leadership in other areas.
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Orchestra is an EC = extracurricular. It's not the same as a Varsity letter in a sport. West Point (and all SAs) put a lot of emphasis on athletics. So while your ECs will count, they aren't counted the same way as participating in a sport (team or otherwise) or being a captain/leader of a sports team.

An academic letter counts toward the academic portion of your application, like honor roll, NHS, etc.
 
jackiejyp7 said:
I definitely feel like it's a team sport however to the SAs, they are not. They are not considered as highly as other sports like basketball, soccer, football, etc,.
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What is the basis for you saying this? What is the source for this information? As far as I know a varsity letter in a sport counts the same to the service academies regardless of the particular sport.

I also agree that track and cross country are great team sports by the way. There is a lot of strategy and team planning that goes into a line-up for a meet.

Stealth_81
 
napjim said:
Anyone who does not think Cross Country is a team sport has never seen it run at the top level. Boys work together to form a "pack" and pull each other along and work together to succeed. I've seen a team of runners running as a pack of demoralize better runners running as individuals. Is there an individual component - -yes - no different than a batter facing a pitcher -- trying to do his best. But to see the camaraderie and teamwork to help lead a program of 150 runners and then see success as a team on the course will transform your view of Cross Country.
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I have no doubt that's the case and I have great respect for cross country runners. However, its not football where every player needs to execute their particular assignment on each play. That's what the military is looking for in team sports. Not to say they don't appreciate their cross country runners either but I would say something like football is the ideal.
 
I read earlier in the forum a while ago about sports being categorized in tiers. This information was emphasized when I went to an admissions visit at WP where they spoke about the sports and importance of playing a team sport, not that an individual sport isn't awesome but it's at a different level.
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=34576 this is where I saw the "tier" info.
 
Thanks for all the responses guys
I guess doing track is good but would joining like a club soccer team (not school varsity) be a good sport that i could do? I love soccer but just cant make it to the school team so could i join an easier club soccer team to see how it works out? I will still run track too.

Thank you
 
Losing track of what is important

Stealth_81 said:
As a track and cross country coach, that is truly sad for me to hear. It takes away any meaning to earning a letter. That would be like a physics teacher giving everyone on the class an "A" as long as they showed up every day and took two out of the 15 tests in a semester, regardless of how they did on those tests. Letters should indicate a top athlete who contributes to the team's wins.

Stealth_81
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I am a long time teacher and coach. In our high school I have witnessed a coach year after year that chooses to give a varsity letter only to whom he deems are the top 7 runners on the XC team. In our highly competitive school that leaves several very good runners out each year. I saw a dedicated runner that ran # 8 or 9 on the 15 man team trudge through several injuries while almost, but never cracking the top 7. I was at his senior banquet when the coach rushed him a JV letter. Ridiculous.

Some of the other sports at our school give letters to everyone that makes the team and completes the season for their effort, whether they crack the lineup or not. Where is the harm in that? Rewarding dedication and hard work is what education is all about. That is what high school sports are for. Developing young people into successful well rounded adults.

If a young person had the academy set as a goal and needed to letter in order to fulfill the requirements I would not suggest they try CC at our school. They may never receive the award even though in all actuality they may be quite good.

The same goes for golf at our school. If you cannot avg. in the 70's you cannot play varsity. Kids that shoot 80-85 are actually quite good for HS golf. Is it fair to withhold a letter when kids at other area high schools with less talent letter with scores of 100?

Yep. Life isn't fair. It isn't ever going to be fair. The academies somehow have to sort through all of this. They do a remarkable job, and my hat is off to them.
 
All of the service academies are looking for those who are physically fit and make that a way of life. While we can all quibble about which sport is a 'team' sport or which one is worth more points in the application process, what really matters is how they are viewed by the academies. Participating (and excelling) in physically demandings sports in h.s. is one of the things you need to be focused on. You WILL be expected to keep up with your peers once you are admitted and has been previously pointed out, roughly 90% of every incoming class has participated in some varsity sports in h.s.

You won't have time to 'learn' how to be an athlete once you start, so that is why being athletic is such an important part of the resume they are looking for. That is what applicants should focus on rather then how to 'game' the application process by choosing sport A over sport B.
 
I am pretty sure the track and field team at our school operates only at a varsity level, so at least I will have participation in a varsity sport, even though I may not letter in it. Hopefully I will still have a shot.
 
Maplerock said:
I am a long time teacher and coach. In our high school I have witnessed a coach year after year that chooses to give a varsity letter only to whom he deems are the top 7 runners on the XC team. In our highly competitive school that leaves several very good runners out each year. I saw a dedicated runner that ran # 8 or 9 on the 15 man team trudge through several injuries while almost, but never cracking the top 7. I was at his senior banquet when the coach rushed him a JV letter. Ridiculous.

Some of the other sports at our school give letters to everyone that makes the team and completes the season for their effort, whether they crack the lineup or not. Where is the harm in that? Rewarding dedication and hard work is what education is all about. That is what high school sports are for. Developing young people into successful well rounded adults.
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The top 7 runners are the Varsity team, which is why they earn a Varsity letter. That is the rule for cross country. The runner who is #8 or 9 all year is a JV runner, and thus got a JV letter. The criteria for earning a letter is spelled out for the coaches at our HS and it has to be followed. For a Varsity cross country letter, the athlete must score 10 Varsity points during the season. Period. The coach has no authority to change the rules which are set at the Conference level. This year I had to deny my own son (a candidate for USAFA and USNA class of 2019) a Varsity letter because he got injured during the season and only scored 8 team points. He had gotten a Varsity letter last year as a sophomore.

All of the other sports at our school follow the same type of system. Track athletes must score 25 Varsity points. Volleyball players must play in 50% of the Varsity games played during the season. Football players must play in 50% of the quarters played in regular season play. Powerlifters must qualify for the state meet. Each of the other sports also has their own standards but I don't know them off the top of my head. The criteria is set and the coach follows it to be fair to all the athletes.

All athletes are recognized for their hard work and dedication, just not with a Varsity letter which is a top-level achievement.

Stealth_81
 
Stealth_81 said:
The top 7 runners are the Varsity team, which is why they earn a Varsity letter. That is the rule for cross country. The runner who is #8 or 9 all year is a JV runner, and thus got a JV letter. The criteria for earning a letter is spelled out for the coaches at our HS and it has to be followed. For a Varsity cross country letter, the athlete must score 10 Varsity points during the season. Period. The coach has no authority to change the rules which are set at the Conference level. This year I had to deny my own son (a candidate for USAFA and USNA class of 2019) a Varsity letter because he got injured during the season and only scored 8 team points. He had gotten a Varsity letter last year as a sophomore.

All of the other sports at our school follow the same type of system. Track athletes must score 25 Varsity points. Volleyball players must play in 50% of the Varsity games played during the season. Football players must play in 50% of the quarters played in regular season play. Powerlifters must qualify for the state meet. Each of the other sports also has their own standards but I don't know them off the top of my head. The criteria is set and the coach follows it to be fair to all the athletes.

All athletes are recognized for their hard work and dedication, just not with a Varsity letter which is a top-level achievement.

Stealth_81
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This is a good point. Most sports DO have requirements at the varsity level. The "big" team sports for USMA such as football, basketball, baseball, soccer, volleyball, all usually have some sort of 50% playing time rule. So it is a matter of DOING it. That is what USMA is saying. Be an athlete. Figure out a way to get the job done. It isn't always going to be fair, but sometimes you have to find a way.

And for the coaches that are saying it's "sad" to see people just going for a varsity letter, it isn't really that sad. It is actually admirable. I have seen to many kids go through sports that are naturally great at playing them, yet they don't put forth effort and they are still made into celebrities just because of their natural abilities. So what if a kid has a goal to get into one of the best colleges in the nation? Why is it bad for them to work hard for something and achieve their goals? and...... they can be a team player WHILE doing it. That is one of the very reasons west point looks for team players. Because sports TEACH them to be part of a team and contribute. So I don't really see why you are discouraging a kid from joining for this reason. Maybe they will get some serious life lessons out of it! :thumb:

^^ Just a little background info, I play on a football team that is very competitive and just won two state championships back to back. We had kids join just to get a ring because we were picked to go undefeated and win state again this year (which we did). I HATED these kids at first, and so did all the other varsity guys. They weren't athletic, they were annoying, and they got in our way. One kid even admitted to us that he joined "just to get into shape and get a ring at the same time". Now, at the time I was angry at these kids, but then practices started, and they got involved. These kids went from stumbling blocks to contributors throughout the season. Some helped on scout team. Some just ran drills to help others get better. My point is, they learned a lot this season even though they didn't come into the season with the best intentions. I was actually proud how much they progressed and contributed to the team, and I was happy to have them at the end of the season. So give these kids a chance. It may help them grow as people.

Sorry for the long post. :shake:
 
Well then...

All of the other sports at our school follow the same type of system. Track athletes must score 25 Varsity points. Volleyball players must play in 50% of the Varsity games played during the season. Football players must play in 50% of the quarters played in regular season play. Powerlifters must qualify for the state meet. Each of the other sports also has their own standards but I don't know them off the top of my head. The criteria is set and the coach follows it to be fair to all the athletes.

Stealth_81[/QUOTE]

Fair to all the athletes? School A has 1500 kids. Has been to state finals multiple times. Is very difficult to earn a varsity letter. School B has 250 kids. Anyone with a pulse can letter. Is that fair to the kids at the bigger school? I have often wondered how academies differentiate between the two schools. They cannot know the athletic success or lack of it for every school.

Also... the ability to be a captain is much easier in a small school. I graduated in a class of 560. I have a friend that graduated in a class of 39. He had a much easier time gaining a spot on varsity teams and lettering.

So for me... the participation factor is as important as lettering. I noticed too, that several academies are now asking for athletic accomplishments from grade 10-12, discounting grade 9. My son participated in 3 sports and earned 2 varsity letters as a freshman and those will not be counted. Selecting from such a select and accomplished pool is indeed a complicated and difficult process.
 
Maplerock said:
All of the other sports at our school follow the same type of system. Track athletes must score 25 Varsity points. Volleyball players must play in 50% of the Varsity games played during the season. Football players must play in 50% of the quarters played in regular season play. Powerlifters must qualify for the state meet. Each of the other sports also has their own standards but I don't know them off the top of my head. The criteria is set and the coach follows it to be fair to all the athletes.

Stealth_81

Fair to all the athletes? School A has 1500 kids. Has been to state finals multiple times. Is very difficult to earn a varsity letter. School B has 250 kids. Anyone with a pulse can letter. Is that fair to the kids at the bigger school? I have often wondered how academies differentiate between the two schools. They cannot know the athletic success or lack of it for every school.

Also... the ability to be a captain is much easier in a small school. I graduated in a class of 560. I have a friend that graduated in a class of 39. He had a much easier time gaining a spot on varsity teams and lettering.

So for me... the participation factor is as important as lettering. I noticed too, that several academies are now asking for athletic accomplishments from grade 10-12, discounting grade 9. My son participated in 3 sports and earned 2 varsity letters as a freshman and those will not be counted. Selecting from such a select and accomplished pool is indeed a complicated and difficult process.
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Actually, USMA takes this into account. I was emailing my FFR back and forth telling him about the captain position I got this year in football, and he kept asking me questions about how good our team was (Record, schedule, ranking in both state and national -- which at the time we were 59 in the nation overall) . He said a big part of why I got my LOE was because of everything I told him about that information. He said being a player/captain/letterman on a better team gets you more points than the "anybody with a pulse" teams.
 
Wow that seems tough then. You had to be all that for just an LOE? How are your academics and other ECs.
 
jazjar said:
Wow that seems tough then. You had to be all that for just an LOE? How are your academics and other ECs.
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My LOE wasn't based solely on that, but he said that really helped because it added so many points to my profile (Team captain and a letter on a 15-0 state championship nationally ranked team gets a ton of points). It gave me extra points on sports and leadership, which he said pushed me over the top for an LOE. And I wouldn't refer to it as "just an LOE". West Point practically says, "we want you, and you will probably be offered an appointment, so keep working hard, and here is an overnight visit". Probably 99% of all LOE recipients (with noms) receive an appointment, so I take it as a big deal. :thumb:

My academics are pretty good I guess. 4.0 GPA (Weighted GPA is like 4.3 or something like that), 30 ACT, the usual for USMA candidates. EC's are where I really excelled though -- Founder and president of a club, VP and member of NHS, member of just about every honor society or honor club there is out there, class president, FCA leader etc.... Lots of clubs, lots of leadership.
 
Once again, be reminded that every candidate is judged on their own merits and total WCS. Not everyone has a Varsity letter. Not all of those who do have it in a "Team" sport. As a general rule, yes, it is better to have one. My DS got in without one. He was a band kid, eagle scout, 700+ SATs, Boys State and fair scores on his CFA. He now scores 315 to 320 on his APFT each year. It is usually easier to make a smart kid strong than a strong kid smart. Over 500 cadets last year went to summer school. Study, study study and be well rounded.
 
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