VMI's loss is Citadel's gain

Discussion in 'Publicly and Privately Funded Military Colleges' started by bruno, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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  2. FFNA

    FFNA New Member

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    It is a major loss for VMI athletics. I have hopes for AD Diles and his plans to improve VMI sports, but losing Coach Baucom is not a positive development.
     
  3. glen

    glen Member

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    Bruno - Thanks, and good luck to VMI in its search for a new coach. We need some new blood in the BB coaching slot at El Cid. Coach Houston has done a good job coming in for football - hope Coach Duggar Baucom can do the same. Hard job recruiting though - I don't see us ever being in the top of the Southern Conference.
     
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  4. Wishful

    Wishful Parent

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    Does either have women's BB team?
     
  5. glen

    glen Member

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    The Citadel does not have a women's BB team. However, nearly 50% of women play on a Division I NCAA Varsity sport in: Volley Ball, Soccer, Cross Country, Track & Field, Golf, and Rifle Team.
     
  6. Wishful

    Wishful Parent

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    Thanks
     
  7. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    Women's NCAA sports at VMI are: Cross Country, Rifle, Soccer, Swimming & Diving, Track & Field, Water Polo. In addition there are a number of Club sports - too numerous to mentin though it includes Rugby, Basketball and Volleyball. You can find the list at this link: http://www.vmi.edu/Content.aspx?id=10737424032

    Short video on Athletic opportunities at VMI for Men and Women: http://admissions.vmi.edu/ncaa-club-intramural/
     
  8. Cluelessparent

    Cluelessparent Member

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    How much money do you think theses small schools pour into that big black hole called sports or should I say big red hole vs gain, that could be better used elsewhere? Sure it adds some to recruiting (that I think would not reflect much over all in student body) and for the Athletics it adds some to the college experience. But what is the gain vs participation and how many students at theses small schools would even attend if not required/ forced? I think I know! How many folks attend that are not the forced student body? What is the avg attendance at a basketball game since the student body is not forced to attend? I guess it looks real good on paper to have these programs...do you have any hard facts glenn to really support having the program(s) vs cost or morale gain at a school of that size? Versus placing that money where it could be better used? Just curious???
    Oh I guess also it is tied to that so sought after public funding money. Especially I would think so with womens sports. And you say 50% of the women participate. Do the math that still ain't many... 164 women enrolled per website so 82 women participating in sports....
    I sincerely. honestly have no idea that is why I am asking??
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
  9. Cluelessparent

    Cluelessparent Member

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    Actually I found some figures for the top 20 Division I(FCS) schools in 2012. I was surprised to see The Citadel at #18 with an avg of 13,574. Of course that is with 2000 plus forced attends. I suppose the forced attends were counted in the number since they occupied a seat. Appalachian State was #1 with an avg attendance of just over 26000 .
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
  10. zrxkuma

    zrxkuma Member

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    DS was a starter on an NCAA team for his freshman year, he has switched to a club due to academic constraints. The amount of money involved in keeping NCAA and club activities is significant, however, if you add up involvement of all cadets at these SMA's I would bet the number is close to 90% when you include all clubs and NCAA teams. The cost isn't equitable across the board for money expenditure but I am a big supporter of school sponsored activities outside the academic environment and I believe the end justifies the means
     
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  11. Cluelessparent

    Cluelessparent Member

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    I do not disagree to some extent, public funding, show, and over all look at the school program. But the 90% figure, not sure I follow... I know it is impossible at my Ds's SMC. He said a professor told them in a class that there were only two basketball programs in the NCAA that operated in the black( I have no idea). I am sure they were discussing economics and where the money could really be used better at his SMC. And there are a lot of places but I will not go into that here. And school sponsored activities could be Intramural and maybe redirect some of that red hole fell good sport money and reach more... and of course I am in support of school supported activities but sometimes......
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
  12. majstlo

    majstlo Member

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    small schools like VMI and The Citadel do not offer as many sports as larger universities because they simply dont have the revenue of the big guys. The most important point is that both schools keep things in perspective and have true student-athletes who graduate at a rate much higher than major universities, as it should be.
     
  13. Cluelessparent

    Cluelessparent Member

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    Point well made and taken....
     
  14. NAS

    NAS Banned

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    The two schools are very different indeed when it comes to Div I sports. For example, all VMI athletes are cadets living a spartan life in the VMI barracks--plain and simple, and it does not matter if they are 5th year athletes... ALL VMI athletes are cadets and live in barracks. The same is not true at the Citadel, and perhaps a distinct advantage the Citadel has in this regard is the fact that it's night undergrad/grad students and undergrad day students can also play on the sports teams. It has been a big factor for them in previous years, especially in football. For example, a few years back a coach's son who played at Florida came in and enrolled in the night program so he could play out his last year of NCAA eligibility at the Citadel. This is not rare, the Citadel routinely continues athletes in its night or day undergrad/grad programs, specifically so they can continue to play sports for the Citadel while living off-campus.
    ... Win or lose, it's just a distinct difference between the schools.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  15. majstlo

    majstlo Member

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    Actually it is rare to have 5th year graduate transfers, I think the football team has had 5 in the past decade and the basketball team had 4 but all had degrees earned on time from pretty fair schools like Wisconsin, Princeton, Duquesne and yes U. of Florida. There are a fair number of 5th year seniors on the football team who were cadets for 4 years but graduated on time and had another year of eligibility remaining so the only way they could continue playing would be to enroll as a grad student. There are no night undergrad students playing athletics at present. Do you really think that if VMI had a graduate school they wouldnt also have 5th year seniors enrolled so they could play sports? Five year players are the rule not the exception in Division I these days.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  16. Cluelessparent

    Cluelessparent Member

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    And as Jackie Gleason would say "and away we gooooo!" AGAIN......
     
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  17. NAS

    NAS Banned

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    Thanks for proving my point, which was the two schools are vastly different indeed. To answer your question: "do you think if VMI had a graduate school they wouldn't do the same?" It's real simple--VMI does not have a grad school because our administration and our alumni are steadfastly opposed to such a thing--the same holds true with any on-line programs... It's not VMI's path and not the VMI way--VMI is an old-fashioned military college--period.
    Back to point, the schools are more different than alike, especially with athletics.
    Duggar Beaucom has family in Charleston and it's like coming home for him. Besides, who wouldn't want to live in such a gorgeous city?! I think Coach Baucom will have a successful tenure at the Citadel and he'll most likely see more wins because he'll have far more flexibility with athletes, both cadets and civilian students. I wish him all the luck in the world!
     
  18. majstlo

    majstlo Member

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    so a few fifth year seniors in grad school and now The Citadel is "vastly different". Uh, well OK dude, whatever. I guess we are all entitled to our own interpetation of the ink blot. I do think Baucom will be significantly more successful than Driesell who I believe was hired more for his name than his qualifications and the truth is at any other college in the country he would have been sent packing after his third straight 20 loss season. And being that he comes from an "old fashioned military school" I guess he wont be inclined to use any of those vile "civilian" players.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
  19. NAS

    NAS Banned

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    If you're calling 1500 civilian students, 20 of whom currently play football at the citadel, "a handful of 5th year students," then you have been looking at too many ink blots... Dude.
    And nobody (except you) called civilians 'vile.' It's just a big difference between the two schools, win or lose.
     
  20. majstlo

    majstlo Member

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    well since you bring it up and want to inject clear disinformation and twist facts; 12 seniors on this past years squad and not all of them were 5th years so obviously "20 of whom play football" isn't accurate. If even half were out of the 114 players in the program I think that still qualifies as 'a handful'. I had somehow assumed this board was all about civil discussion and sharing of information but I may have been mistaken.
     

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