Waning enthusiasm for USAFA - advice?

[walker1974]

Hello all. Looking for some advice.

My son is a Junior in hs. He has been interested in Aeronautical/Aerospace since he was 10. Always talked about getting into Space Force and potentially being an astronaut (although not interested in being a pilot). Super smart (4.5 gpa, AP's, 1580 SAT 35 ACT, Golf, Track (shot/disc), leadership, Violin/piano, volunteer hours....very strong candidate).

We visited the Academy a year ago and he was sure it was what he wanted to do. But, 9 months later he started losing interest. I think part of it is that he wants to get his masters and by the time that's completed and still having a 5 year commitment.....his words were "I'll miss the best years of my life" lolol. Sorry, but it made me laugh a little. We definitely don't want to push him on it b/c we know it's hard and it has to be in his heart to do it.

I think if he could more clearly see what an advantage it would provide in his career path it may help. Or also, what the assignments would be like for his area of expertise given his abilities. He is nearly fluent in German, so thought he would want to explore a possible assignment in Germany.

One other thing he was concerned about was being able to continue his violin/piano. Doesn't seem like there's anything at USAFA in that regard.

We are having him apply for the Summer Seminar. Hoping if he gets a few days there, it could rekindle the spark.

If anyone has any advice or suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[proud*mom]

consider ROTC

 

[walker1974]

consider ROTC

Doesn't that have the same commitment?

 

[A1Janitor]

My son was similar. Go navy.

The opportunities my son is looking at are unbelievable. Aero engineer graduate from USNA.

 

[Ivy22]

Doesn't that have the same commitment?

Yes, but it's at a civilian university which means if he decides he doesn't want to do military, he can stay at that college and finish his degree.

 

[pa-outdoorsman]

Yes, but it's at a civilian university which means if he decides he doesn't want to do military, he can stay at that college and finish his degree.

Also would probably have more opportunity to pursue his instruments and other extracurriculars.

PLUS, with ROTC you can fulfill your service obligation completely in the Guard or Reserves. I know that for a fact for Army. Not sure but I'd imagine Air Force and Navy ROTC offer similar options. So he could pursue a civilian career after school while also being in the service. ROTC Graduates are also eligible for educational deferment they would allow him to get his masters before beginning service.

So, as you can see, lots of other opportunities out there beyond a Service Academy. Now is a great time to start exploring them.

 

[Ivy22]

Also would probably have more opportunity to pursue his instruments and other extracurriculars.

PLUS, with ROTC you can fulfill your service obligation completely in the Guard or Reserves. I know that for a fact for Army. Not sure but I'd imagine Air Force and Navy ROTC offer similar options. So he could pursue a civilian career after school while also being in the service. ROTC Graduates are also eligible for educational deferment they would allow him to get his masters before beginning service.

So, as you can see, lots of other opportunities out there beyond a Service Academy. Now is a great time to start exploring them.

NROTC is active duty only for commissioning and service obligation. I am not sure what AFROTC is, but I think it might be active duty as well. AFROTC seems to have more opportunity for grad degrees right after undergrad though. Not many slots for NROTC tbh

AROTC, yes you can fulfill obligation without active duty

Summers are also more free to pursue internships with ROTC. Even with summer cruises/training, still plenty of time to get a nice internship over the summer

 

[pa-outdoorsman]

NROTC is active duty only for commissioning and service obligation. I am not sure what AFROTC is, but I think it might be active duty as well. AFROTC seems to have more opportunity for grad degrees right after undergrad though. Not many slots for NROTC tbh

AROTC, yes you can fulfill obligation without active duty

Summers are also more free to pursue internships with ROTC. Even with summer cruises/training, still plenty of time to get a nice internship over the summer

OK, so you'll definitely have to check into that. Keep in mind that Aviation is one of the Army branches, and you can definitely pursue an aviation-related career in the Army as well.

Ultimately, your son will decide what he wants to do. However, if he likes the idea of being in military but doesn't want that 24/7 military environment during college or the active-duty requirement after graduation, AROTC could be a great option.

As many wise people on this forum often say, it's GOOD to have options. Keep them all open and pursue every available opportunity. He still has lots of time decide what direction he ultimately wants to go.

EDIT: I checked for you. There ARE limited opportunities to commission directly into the Air Force Reserves or Air National Guard out of Air Force ROTC.

 

[Ivy22]

OK, so you'll definitely have to check into that. Keep in mind that Aviation is one of the Army branches, and you can definitely pursue an aviation-related career in the Army as well.

Ultimately, your son will decide what he wants to do. However, if he likes the idea of being in military but doesn't want that 24/7 military environment during college or the active-duty requirement after graduation, AROTC could be a great option.

As many wise people on this forum often say, it's GOOD to have options. Keep them all open and pursue every available opportunity. He still has lots of time decide what direction he ultimately wants to go.

EDIT: I checked for you. There ARE limited opportunities to commission directly into the Air Force Reserves or Air National Guard directly out of Air Force ROTC.

Oh yeah, now that you mention it, I do remember someone going reserves or ANG from AFROTC at my school. I think it was a competitive process and they had to "rush" the unit they wanted to join. The benefit is for pilot selects, you'll know what airframe you're going to fly going into flight school. They got a spot in a reserve or ANG F-35 squadron... super cool and really good deal

 

[VikingAirman]

I think summer sem would really help your son out. Although I didn't do summer sem, I did do the CVW at the academy which is very similar. CVW I just watched but summer sem you live in that environment, the plebe I was staying with said CVW and summer sem will kind of make you realize right away if this is for you. Like other commenters, I would also advocate for ROTC, much more lowkey and will be easier to back out on (mentally) than an academy if you started one or the other. Your son sounds very smart, he will probably have a lot of options when it comes to colleges which may make it easier to decide since he will probably get great merit from a state school or get it to some pretty good schools. But aside from that, your son will only be as good as the environment is, for him. (P.S. I am a freshman in college doing ROTC and applying to the academy and did this whole college process last year, I don't like making assumptions but from personal experience, the assumptions I made are fair to assume)

 

[GoodRun]

@walker1974 Have him go to USAFA Summer Scientific and tour the Aero and Astro departments. I believe the Astro department is ranked at the top if not #1 for undergraduate programs in the nation. The Astro dept launches and tracks satellites! The AF is slowly spinning off assets to the Space Force as it continues to grow and stand up. Most cadets are really excited about having the option of going AF or SF (just as USNA grads can go Navy or Marine Corps).

Talk to a Space Force officer while at USAFA, or get the name of someone to talk to while there. They will know where the bases and opportunities are in Germany or Europe. Europe has a pretty robust space program so I have to imagine there are allied interactions.

 

[GoodRun]

I think part of it is that he wants to get his masters and by the time that's completed and still having a 5 year commitment.....his words were "I'll miss the best years of my life"

He may owe 5 years upon graduation, but grad school (often at AF-expense) would not "stop his clock". Instead, he would get a separate commitment for the masters degree. The commitment varies over the years, but it is usually two years for every one year of school. So, since most Masters degrees are either 1.5 to 2 years, he would owe 3-4 for it. The important thing to note is the commitment is served CONCURRENTLY with his existing 5 year commitment. So if he were to go for his masters degree RIGHT after graduation, he could still get our 5 years after graduation.

As far as missing out during the best years of his life: USAFA offers an established path to the Space Force and a space career that will be respected whenever he leaves the military. One of the biggest complaints I have from young (civilians) is they cannot get hired for the jobs they want (often the ones that pay well) because they don't have the job experience. A military career, no matter how long, will give him the job experience he needs to transition to the civilian world. Many civilian companies favor ex-military because they employed the products and services offered by the company (often a defense contactor) and the ex-military member comes with things like active security clearances, in-depth knowledge of the customer, and acquisition and contacting experience.

 

[99Gold]

Have him go to USAFA Summer Scientific and tour the Aero and Astro departments. I believe the Astro department is ranked at the top if not #1 for undergraduate programs in the nation. The Astro dept launches and tracks satellites! The AF is slowly spinning off assets to the Space Force as it continues to grow and stand up. Most cadets are really excited about having the option of going AF or SF (just as USNA grads can go Navy or Marine Corps).

Talk to a Space Force officer while at USAFA, or get the name of someone to talk to while there. They will know where the bases and opportunities are in Germany or Europe. Europe has a pretty robust space program so I have to imaging there are allied interactions.

The Aero department is also one of the best (if not the best) in the country. Ds's sponsor is an aero professor and he is amazed at the equipment USAFA cadets have access to.

I have a son that is in the OP's shoes. He wants to be an astronaut and major in astro but not necessarily fly. He is 100% in on USAFA. It helps that my USAFA classmate is an astronaut and he wants to follow that same path.

There are a lot of advantages going to USAFA including being surrounded by officers who have done it. However, in the end, whether you go ROTC or to a SA, your future is at the mercy of the needs of the service. You really need to have a desire to serve first and foremost over getting the job you want. Now, 5 years is a super short time and you can pursue a career after the 5 years are over or you might just achieve all of your dreams in the AF, but you aren't in control of it.

As a note, I am fluent in and minored in German at USAFA and got to do CSLIP (Cadet Summer Language Immersion Program) while I was there. It was awesome. My ds will do the same for his language. However, I never got to be stationed in Germany and I doubt that German-fluency is even on the AF's radar when they send people there except in very special situations. My sister who also speaks German put Germany on her preference sheet for 20 years and was never stationed there. Oh, well, she had a great career and some fabulous assignments that the AF chose for her.

 

[AFrpaso]

He may owe 5 years upon graduation, but grad school (often at AF-expense) would not "stop his clock". Instead, he would get a separate commitment for the masters degree. The commitment varies over the years, but it is usually two years for every one year of school. So, since most Masters degrees are either 1.5 to 2 years, he would owe 3-4 for it. The important thing to note is the commitment is served CONCURRENTLY with his existing 5 year commitment. So if he were to go for his masters degree RIGHT after graduation, he could still get our 5 years after graduation.

As of 2017 the pay-back is 3:1 (3 years for every 1 years in school), capped at 5 years total. A 1.5 yr master's comes with a 4.5 year commitment that starts once the master's is completed (technically when the member physically leaves the school) and is served concurrently with the USAFA commitment. While the overlap is substantial, the combined commitment usually shakes out to be about 6 years +/- a few months.

Still definitely a good deal.

 

[Academician]

By the way, there are other great ways to see the Academy, beyond AFASS. One good route is by attending one of the USAFA summer sports camps. Many of my students have participated in them across all of the SAs. Students stay in the dorms, eat in the mess hall, meet cadets and staff, and they also work with the coaching staff. A visit may help him decide if USAFA is the best route for him.

 

[T-37IP]

Yes, but it's at a civilian university which means if he decides he doesn't want to do military, he can stay at that college and finish his degree.

Not after he contracts. Same commitment. There is an orchestra at USAFA.

 

[Nomad@heart]

I encouraged mine to go through the application process (they had shown interest for years) so it could be an option later… as it is not a school you can crank out an application at the last minute. A candidate weekend was also what really sealed the deal… and took away a lot of the nerves about whether they “fit” there. So I would definitely try a candidate weekend to get a real feel for the place with students on campus and so they can see the grind. As a military family… and having family that was stationed at an academy dealing directly with cadets… it is VITAL that the STUDENT chose this path in the end. When things are hard either as a cadet/mid or on active duty… they have to be able to stand on their own knowing that they chose this life. The process of applying will also show true desire to serve as it is a grind and it becomes very obvious who is being dragged by their parents.

 

[OiledPancakes]

Hello all. Looking for some advice.

My son is a Junior in hs. He has been interested in Aeronautical/Aerospace since he was 10. Always talked about getting into Space Force and potentially being an astronaut (although not interested in being a pilot). Super smart (4.5 gpa, AP's, 1580 SAT 35 ACT, Golf, Track (shot/disc), leadership, Violin/piano, volunteer hours....very strong candidate).

We visited the Academy a year ago and he was sure it was what he wanted to do. But, 9 months later he started losing interest. I think part of it is that he wants to get his masters and by the time that's completed and still having a 5 year commitment.....his words were "I'll miss the best years of my life" lolol. Sorry, but it made me laugh a little. We definitely don't want to push him on it b/c we know it's hard and it has to be in his heart to do it.

I think if he could more clearly see what an advantage it would provide in his career path it may help. Or also, what the assignments would be like for his area of expertise given his abilities. He is nearly fluent in German, so thought he would want to explore a possible assignment in Germany.

One other thing he was concerned about was being able to continue his violin/piano. Doesn't seem like there's anything at USAFA in that regard.

We are having him apply for the Summer Seminar. Hoping if he gets a few days there, it could rekindle the spark.

If anyone has any advice or suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it.

USAFA sent like 25% of the class of 2023 to grad school, and if he does well at the academy academically, he will surely get into any grad school he would like, 100% paid for. They send students to the best grad schools in the country and pay for it completely (MIT, Harvard, UMich, Stanford, etc.). While at grad school, a USAFA grad is pretty much just a college student and has practically no duties as a 2LT. He can enjoy getting his masters at MIT for a couple of years, have some fun, and then serve. There are many ways to serve, including teaching at the academy directly after grad school, or going into the Space Force.

The bottom line is that grad school and undergraduate can cost nearly half a million dollars depending on where you attend. If you think of time as money at all, he would be leaving the military at around 28-29 years old with an insane resume that says USAFA grad, (insert prestigious grad school) grad, Air Force Officer, etc. He would have the best leadership training in the country, amazing connections with huge companies, real experience in the work-force, and not to mention ZERO debt. I do not want to give too many details for identification reasons, but USAFA connections are INSANE. Maybe the people I know got lucky with whom they met, but it certainly gives you many opportunities.

I certainly understand the whole "I would have wasted those 5 years when I could have been building a business/career argument," but you are still building your career in those 5 years, and will still definitely have fun.

 

[Stealth_81]

USAFA sent like 25% of the class of 2023 to grad school, and if he does well at the academy academically, he will surely get into any grad school he would like, 100% paid for. They send students to the best grad schools in the country and pay for it completely (MIT, Harvard, UMich, Stanford, etc.). While at grad school, a USAFA grad is pretty much just a college student and has practically no duties as a 2LT. He can enjoy getting his masters at MIT for a couple of years, have some fun, and then serve.

I would like someone with current experience to verify this, because it is quite different from what I remember. As I recall, student wishing to go to grad school (other than AFIT) were required to apply and be awarded fellowships to pay for grad school, and then have that approved in order to go. Once in grad school they were paid as a 2d Lt and got BAH, but the tuition was not paid by the AF. They also had regular required duties at Reserve units assigned near their school, so they were not free from AF duties at all. As I said, my info is dated so I’d like someone to confirm your information.

 

[OiledPancakes]

I would like someone with current experience to verify this, because it is quite different from what I remember. As I recall, student wishing to go to grad school (other than AFIT) were required to apply and be awarded fellowships to pay for grad school, and then have that approved in order to go. Once in grad school they were paid as a 2d Lt and got BAH, but the tuition was not paid by the AF. They also had regular required duties at Reserve units assigned near their school, so they were not free from AF duties at all. As I said, my info is dated so I’d like someone to confirm your information.

All sources I have received information from were close to me. I am not sure how the payment works because it did not really come up but I do remember that the Air Force had a rule where in order to attend grad school, the student is not allowed to pay for it. They have to have it paid in full. I don't know who exactly pays for it because I always assumed it was the Air Force, but from what I have heard, many have no problem getting it all paid for and everything. I will ask the person about how it is paid for and that process tomorrow and try to get back to you on it.

As for the "duties" while attending grad school, it is definitely different from school to school. I know one of the people I know has to answer to the ROTC commander at the school but has not been called in for duty since they arrived at the school. I have also heard that AFIT is basically just the academy 2.0 as far as being able to do whatever you want. I assume it just depends on who the ROTC commander is in that area.

The information I am giving is not telephone; it is directly from people.