West Point Cadets involved with Drugs on Spring Break

As I wrote in another thread on this topic I think we should let justice run its course before passing judgement. I do not think news sources are being dishonest, but often in such situations they don’t have the full picture. Witnesses are notoriously inconsistent and can be inaccurate.
I can guarantee that USMA will do a full investigation, but it will take some time to ensure it is done right and IAW USMA procedures and the UCMJ.
 
Skippy, I'd rather him stay right up on that high horse.......instead of swimming in the mud with those spring breaking idiots in Fort Lauderdale.
Couldn't agree more. I've been amazed with the number of people defending these idiots or saying things like "they're just young kids" or "everyone makes mistakes". They aren't kids and this wasn't a mistake. They are adults who willfully did drugs and thought they could get away with it. Time to stop making excuses and accept personal responsibility.
 
Couldn't agree more. I've been amazed with the number of people defending these idiots or saying things like "they're just young kids" or "everyone makes mistakes". They aren't kids and this wasn't a mistake. They are adults who willfully did drugs and thought they could get away with it. Time to stop making excuses and accept personal responsibility.
If you are lumping me into this category, you are missing my point.

My point, is that just bc you go to a SA, you aren’t some super human INCAPABLE OF MAKING A BAD CHOICE/DECISION.

Heck, my priest every Sunday had good material about his own imperfections, that he is able to share in his homilies. And he is a man of God.

No one is infallible. I’m not making an excuse for them. And they WILL be held personally accountable.
 
This whole Ft Lauderdale incident is a horrible shame! Even if every one of these Cadets were firsties, they were 21 or younger. And on Spring Break, in South Florida where drugs are EVERYWHERE! Anyone on these forums who has NEVER made a mistake should step up and declare themselves a God! 6 young lives and careers likely ruined, but until the totality of the incident is made public none of us should be making a blanket judgment. It may have been a horrible accident, where someone's drink was spiked, or one or two of them were so drunk they never realized what was occurring (not that that is ANY excuse). These young adults were going to be future leaders of our military and they need to hold themselves to a higher standard than the average college student.

I lived in Fort Lauderdale while working as a US Customs Agent working narcotics, and I can say with experience that drugs are all over the place during spring break in South Florida. Everything from Pot to Heroin is at almost any party, and Law Enforcement is just overwhelmed during Spring Break. These young adults are definitely NOT the first military members to partake while on leave or liberty, nor are they the first to have problems. A good friend of mine in the USCG, an O-6 in Command of a large cutter ended up popping positive for coke, got a General Courts Martial and was found guilty. Ruined an otherwise stellar career. It happens, most just are never caught because they avoid a test or falsify the test (and there are ways to do that), people are people and just because someone in serving in the military does not make them immune from pressures or mistakes. If there are deaths, that would just make it that much worse. Hopefully everyone ends up OK, and lessons are learned, but IMHO, none of them should be given a "pass" on this. Cadets get "disenrolled" for medical reasons and don't get to graduate, and these Cadets also should not be given the opportunity to either graduate or serve.
 
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Couldn't agree more. I've been amazed with the number of people defending these idiots or saying things like "they're just young kids" or "everyone makes mistakes". They aren't kids and this wasn't a mistake. They are adults who willfully did drugs and thought they could get away with it. Time to stop making excuses and accept personal responsibility.
No, I’m saying we should let all the facts come out and not do the “Ready, fire, aim” routine. News outlets have gotten this sort of thing wrong in the past.
 
One suspect arrested

 
I’m sorry but to those casting convictions about what happened - each of us does not yet know what happened there.

Keep in mind not everyone who presents with a fentanyl OD chose to take that drug (though some did), not all drug dealers are honest persons, and to those who say this ingestion was "willful", I can't imagine how you know that at this point - were you there? Maybe you're correct, maybe you're convicting before hearing the facts.

The friendly neighborhood drug dealer could have given them coke, marijuana etc. laced with fentanyl (which is cheaper than coke) without their knowledge. Even if they ordered “coke” off said dealer's "menu" it could have been laced without their knowledge - would it surprise you to know a dealer might substitute expensive cocaine to 1 make money and 2 hook you to become a repeat customer on harder stuff than marijuana? Not everyone uses the free kits to test their drugs for fentanyl. Or to test their cigarettes or the shot they just got poured in another room - honestly, for these latter 2, would you?

They could have been handed a cigarette, a shot, edible, or a joint that was laced without their knowledge, intentionally or not, or sprinkled with a little cocaine which was more than a little cocaine.

Or they could have intentionally purchased coke laced with fentanyl, taken it intentionally and OD’d. Seems a few of you are certain this was the path - IMO that's a fool's certainty.

It sounds possible some of them only ingested fentanyl (it takes a miniscule among to affect/ put one in danger) because they were performing CPR on a colleague who was fighting for their life in front of them. I for one want the person who jumped in and saved lives shoulder to shoulder with my DS soon when they are active duty, not to have them drummed out, if that’s all they did.

OK, maybe that perspective will help - for now please unchamber the firing squad rifles, stand down, and pray for those who have machines breathing for them at this time. Like a pavlovian dog you can salivate in eager anticipation of crucifying these people once the facts are confirmed- you'll probably get your chance, you're just a little early at the moment to do so.

If it matters I do not do drugs, and have had less than 10 drinks in my adult life (well outside of a few binge nights in college when I was about this age). I'm not pro drugs, I'm anti drugs. I'm also anti crucifying before all facts are established.
 
I agree that we don't know all of the facts, and that the actions of some of those who OD'd might in fact be heroic (that is, if they were trying to revive others). While I'm not trying to make an excuse for anyone's conduct (for which they should be held accountable), I will say that fentanyl is a God-awful drug. My friends and I did some stupid things in college (many years ago, and not an SA), but we never faced consequences like this. I just hope that all involved fully recover and get a second chance to do better, wherever that may be.
 
Is the superintendent the sole decider of these cadets' fate or does he have to abide by UCMJ regulations??
 
Is the superintendent the sole decider of these cadets' fate or does he have to abide by UCMJ regulations??

Everything below depends on the actual facts of the incident and is a general outline of what might happen if the facts warrant.

All military members must abide by the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

A full investigation will be done by USMA, as well as by the appropriate civilian police authority.

The jurisdiction over the case and any criminal charges lies with civilian authority, since it did not occur on a military base. The local DA may turn it all back over to USMA to sort out and adjudicate. Or, the case, depending if there is one, will play out in civilian court, and USMA will await its turn.

Due process will be followed; the cadets will have rights. If USMA assumes jurisdiction, the JAGs will determine what, if any, charges will be brought. They cannot duplicate charges already brought in a civilian court that led to a verdict.

The Superintendent is likely the Army court-martial convening authority of the area. The case will be examined to see if there is enough evidence to support going to trial in an Article 32 hearing, similar to a grand jury proceeding. If there is, a decision is made with regard to a court-martial. I won’t get into the differences among General, Special and Summary courts-martial, except to say the GCM is most like a civilian trial. Outcomes of courts-martial may have punishments assigned that include punitive discharges such as the bad conduct discharge and dishonorable discharge. Military members being tried at a court-martial are presumed innocent.

The Superintendent also has the option of an administrative conduct proceeding, much more streamlined. Separation can also be the outcome of these, but it would likely be a General-Other Than Honorable conditions discharge.

There are two charges in the UCMJ typically not found in civilian law, but are very handy and flexible for military cases. Informally, they are “failure to maintain good order and discipline” and “bringing discredit upon the service.” This last one is especially handy for misconduct that brings mud splatter to the Army and USMA.

More than you ever wanted to know, but there is due process. The good of the Army will be a prime factor in all decisions.

If I recall correctly, the service Secretary is the separation authority, but generally follows the recommendation of the Superintendent.

Of course, I have no official knowledge of how any of this will play out, but my comments here are based on my time on the staff of a GCM convening authority, USNA Commandant’s staff and a whole pile of cases, more cases from when I was a CO, XO and Chief of Staff, doing Article 13 Non-Judicial Punishment hearings (the administrative option), being a Summary Court-Martial authority, serving as a member of 5 GCM juries, etc.

All this is just Misconduct 101. The facts of the incident have not fully emerged, and no doubt much will not be released to the public.
 
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Everything below depends on the actual facts of the incident and is a general outline of what might happen if the facts warrant.

All military members must abide by the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

A full investigation will be done by USMA, as well as by the appropriate civilian police authority.

The jurisdiction over the case and any criminal charges lies with civilian authority, since it did not occur on a military base. The local DA may turn it all back over to USMA to sort out and adjudicate. Or, the case, depending if there is one, will play out in civilian court, and USMA will await its turn.

Due process will be followed; the cadets will have rights. If USMA assumes jurisdiction, the JAGs will determine what, if any, charges will be brought. They cannot duplicate charges already brought in a civilian court that led to a verdict.

The Superintendent is likely the Army court-martial convening authority of the area. The case will be examined to see if there is enough evidence to support going to trial in an Article 32 hearing, similar to a grand jury proceeding. If there is, a decision is made with regard to a court-martial. I won’t get into the differences among General, Special and Summary courts-martial, except to say the GCM is most like a civilian trial. Outcomes of courts-martial may have punishments assigned that include punitive discharges such as the bad conduct discharge and dishonorable discharge. Military members being tried at a court-martial are presumed innocent.

The Superintendent also has the option of an administrative conduct proceeding, much more streamlined. Separation can also be the outcome of these, but it would likely be a General-Other Than Honorable conditions discharge.

There are two charges in the UCMJ typically not found in civilian law, but are very handy and flexible for military cases. Informally, they are “failure to maintain good order and discipline” and “bringing discredit upon the service.” This last one is especially handy for misconduct that brings mud splatter to the Army and USMA.

More than you ever wanted to know, but there is due process. The good of the Army will be a prime factor in all decisions.

If I recall correctly, the service Secretary is the separation authority, but generally follows the recommendation of the Superintendent.

Of course, I have no official knowledge of how any of this will play out, but my comments here are based on my time on the staff of a GCM convening authority, USNA Commandant’s staff and a whole pile of cases, more cases from when I was a CO, XO and Chief of Staff, doing Article 13 Non-Judicial Punishment hearings (the administrative option), being a Summary Court-Martial authority, serving as a member of 5 GCM juries, etc.

All this is just Misconduct 101. The facts of the incident have not fully emerged, and no doubt much will not be released to the public.
Thank you for your thoughtful analysis of this. I just hope all of them survive.
 
Don't do any drugs really. Anytime or anywhere.

We are a drug taking society. And many, no most times , it’s the legal drugs we take that are the biggest killers.

As far fentanyl ?

This won’t help students at a SA but if we were really worried about stopping deaths from drugs loaded with F we would offer testing to see if the illegal drugs civilians had bought were clean or not.
 
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A couple of observations:

However, a spokeswoman from the U.S. Military Academy said Saturday that five West Point cadets were involved and four of them were transported to the hospital.


1) These WP cadets are not 'kids'. They are not considered kids legally nor by the WP. They signed agreements not to use illegal drugs and acknowledged the ramifications of what would happen if they did in writing.

A Broward County Drug Task Force detective answered, “He admitted to being inside the vehicle. He admitted to participating in some form or fashion to that transaction at that house in Wilton Manors. And , we found the phone that was used to communicate with them on, in his possession at that time.

2) The Broward County Drug task force has reported they have text messages between the drug dealer and a cadet ordering drugs. This was not a mistake but a wilful act. They committed a felony in the state of Florida by purchasing/possessing a Tier 1 drug - Cocaine [Florida Statute § 893.13(6)(a) and it is being investigated by the Broward County Drug Task Force.

3) Army CID will be investigating this felonious behavior and I expect all WP cadets will be drug tested upon return to campus. Good luck getting a security clearance with this event. Cocaine use is a disqualification.

Four of the West Point cadets, all men, were found in cardiac arrest in the rental home's front yard

4) Their careers in the US military are most likely over if they get another pass from West Point due to medical disqualification. Cardiac Arrest will prevent commissioning usually on their graduation commission physical.

They are not kids and they knowingly used drugs and then exposed two friends to the drugs which will impact their futures too.

They don't deserve a 'break' or need 'understanding'. They knew the rules and broke them. I pray for their families and their recovery.
 
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Regarding an update about who is still in the hospital - in reality we do not know. Just FYI, typically don't go from being on a ventilator as two persons were, to being discharged from the hospital in less than 24 hours. The families are now involved and reportedly have requested privacy, so with HIPAA laws I suspect we will not get a full update on exactly what's going on other than perhaps a summary note of key events like if anyone does not pull through and charges are upgraded, or is transferred to a long term facility, or they all discharged/ recover. If you have it in you, please pray for their recovery.

Regarding convicting this group of people as if there's a clear picture of exactly what happened, again it's too soon. Criminal charges or news reports can level serious accusations but they are innocent until proven guilty. But, it's America, so you do you for those who cannot wait for the facts to be sorted out before damning this group from WP. If you believe ONE cadet ordered drugs then focus on crucifying that one, and like wrapped presents at Christmas you can salivate and look forward to condemning the rest soon. If I were to bet, I'd guess not all six or seven are guilty when the dust settles and I think it's careless to cast judgment with limited fact - yet. But like you, I don't know, so I'm waiting for the facts. If being next to someone who does something stupid is a crime based on my college days I'd be rotting in jail in perpetuity. Also, performing CPR on a fellow WPer who is near death isn't anything but a commendable action. If being that hero means due to themselves going into cardiac arrest they won't commission, if it were my DS I would be nothing but proud that he saved lives and would hope he would choose that 10/10 times- other consequences be d*mned.

With regards to kits to test the drugs - they are already available, are cheap or free, and save lives. I agree anyone taking cocaine should test to make sure it's not containing a lethal drug like Fentanyl or disabling drug like Rohypnol.
 
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