West Point football players are identified as six Spring Breakers who overdosed on fentanyl-laced cocaine in front yard of their Florida vacation home

Education...

That's a great "buzzword" and while I agree, in principle, I question the actual efficacy. Anti-drug "education" has been going on since I was in school (60s-70s) and where are we? Higher use numbers in all categories abound. Tobacco...yes, its use is down but vaping nicotine (and other illicit items) is up dramatically!

Vapes are "all over" junior high and high school campuses. Just three weeks ago, one of my sophomores was caught with his supply (on-campus)...he had a dozen, brand new in the wrapper, vapes, and cartridges. Why? It was his business. That's how he made money. A family member got them for him (what's the harm, they're not cigarettes or drugs; that's what the family member told the SRO) and then he sold them. That family will have legal issues for some time to come.

I have no doubt these cadets knew precisely that what they were doing was illegal, both in the State of Florida and per the UCMJ, Article 112a.

They made a bad choice.
 
Have to agree with the above. Everyone at a SA understands the rules and the penalties. I think most adults are well aware of the addictive powers of opioids and the dangers of fentanyl. Some young people don't think it will happen to them, don't think it will happen the first time, and / or are willing to take the personal and legal risk. People a lot smarter than I have been trying to figure out for years how to overcome that.
 
unkown1961 said:
Coincidentally our sponsored cadet was telling us a couple of weeks ago that cadets are using cocaine because of this reason. They can hit their off base airbnb on Friday and be ready to go on Monday.
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The SAs adjust drug testing. Even when I was a Mid and Marine it was constantly being adjusted for trends and rumors. I can remember being tested multiple times in a week at one point. This is when random recalls happen and testing occurs. Sunday evening formation and testing. Cadets and Mids tend to have an invincible attitude. Not uncommon amongst young adults that age. Many think they are smart enough to get away with it… until they aren’t. Capt MJ has talked many times on here about great Mids who made very bad decisions sitting in her office. Decisions that would alter the course of their life. Unfortunately it happens and will make headlines on many occasions.
 
NavyHoops said:
The SAs adjust drug testing. Even when I was a Mid and Marine it was constantly being adjusted for trends and rumors. I can remember being tested multiple times in a week at one point. This is when random recalls happen and testing occurs. Sunday evening formation and testing. Cadets and Mids tend to have an invincible attitude. Not uncommon amongst young adults that age. Many think they are smart enough to get away with it… until they aren’t. Capt MJ has talked many times on here about great Mids who made very bad decisions sitting in her office. Decisions that would alter the course of their life. Unfortunately it happens and will make headlines on many occasions.
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Interesting - I was just reading the post above about cocaine becoming resurgent, and thinking, “stand by for unit sweeps (full unit urinalysis) on Sunday night the minute someone checks back in.” As I recall, rule of thumb is about 2 days for cocaine to be metabolized enough so it doesn’t show in urine.

Or just have the certified drug detection dogs strategically placed. Their alerts can provide probable cause for a directed urinalysis on an individual.

I saw too many people get messed up on cocaine and crystal meth early in my career as the culture went hard over to zero tolerance. It’s career-ending, with “bad paper” in terms of discharge characterization.
 
In regards to the question on what items carry a “zero tolerance” policy….

There was a time where a DUI was a death sentence for officers. Has that changed?
 
USMCGrunt said:
There was a time where a DUI was a death sentence for officers. Has that changed?
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As in discharge ?
It is that way for Navy Officers at this time and I don't see it changing any time in the near future.
 
OldRetSWO said:
As in discharge ?
It is that way for Navy Officers at this time and I don't see it changing any time in the near future.
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Yes. Discharge. Thanks for confirming how DUI’s are handled these days. Sounds like the same as it was in the 80’s.
 
It's all risk analysis by 19 year old brains, and the way to put a thumb on the scale is to visibly change the chances of getting caught and the penalties when you do. I think the increased testing that this episode is likely to produce will achieve the former and fentanyl appearing in more and more channels is doing the latter. But clever kids are going to think they're smarter than the system, that's been going on for ages and won't stop now.
 
StPaulDad said:
It's all risk analysis by 19 year old brains,
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--LOL, that is a scary thought.

Seriously, interesting discussion -- My initial thought when I saw the news was "how could anyone be so dumb?" followed by thoughts on how someone could accidentally be exposed. I will admit, I am so far removed from pop culture I didn't even know what fentanyl was. Hope these kids are okay, but there needs to be a serious house cleaning at USMA if anyone thinks that this is close to okay!

To be honest, it is not just USMA -- we aren't that far from a pretty major drug scandal at USNA, and anytime that these incidents occur, I can't help but wonder if they got it all..or just the tip of the iceberg. My sincere hope is this is just a really few people that make the whole institution look bad
 
Old Navy BGO said:
My sincere hope is this is just a really few people that make the whole institution look bad
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It is just a few. The ones who don't follow the rules they signed up for don't make the cut. Heartbreaking at times especially for medical failures.

You don't read about the good ones. There are many amazing good ones. They know goals, responsibility, their jobs and duty. When they are needed in War they are a much different force than the Russian Army.
 
USMCGrunt said:
In regards to the question on what items carry a “zero tolerance” policy….

There was a time where a DUI was a death sentence for officers. Has that changed?
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It’s rare for NCOs and offers to overcome, but I have seen it happen in extenuating circumstances.
When I was a CO I had an NCO who was at the NCO club. He knew he had been drinking and got a ride home. Before heading home he moved his car from the back corner of the parking lot to a spot under a lamp, then got in his friends car.
MPs saw the NCO move his car and pulled them over after they pulled out of the parking lot. Told the NCO they saw him move his car and gave him a breathalyzer. Yes, NCO should have had his friend move the car… but he was trying to do the right thing. He got a suspended Article 15.
Recently I know of some 2LTs that were pulled over with sealed alcohol in their front seats. They had picked stuff up in a store and it was in a bag in the front seat. The state in question law reads alcohol must be “…anywhere in or on the vehicle that the driver does not have access to while the driving:…” Even sealed alcohol. The LTs insisted on breathalyzers and blew 0.00. Didn’t matter. DUIs. My understanding is the COC did not end their careers and put a blast out informing everyone of the law.
 
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NavyHoops said:
The SAs adjust drug testing. Even when I was a Mid and Marine it was constantly being adjusted for trends and rumors. I can remember being tested multiple times in a week at one point. This is when random recalls happen and testing occurs. Sunday evening formation and testing. Cadets and Mids tend to have an invincible attitude. Not uncommon amongst young adults that age. Many think they are smart enough to get away with it… until they aren’t. Capt MJ has talked many times on here about great Mids who made very bad decisions sitting in her office. Decisions that would alter the course of their life. Unfortunately it happens and will make headlines on many occasions.
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The biggest fear used to be popping hot on a drug test.
Now it's getting fetanyl laced whatever & dying from one hit.
Different times.
UHBlackhawk said:
It’s rare for NCOs and offers to overcome, but I have seen it happen in extenuating circumstances.
When I was a CO I had an NCO who was at the NCO club. He knew he had been drinking and got a ride home. Before heading home he moved his car from the back corner of the parking lot to a spot under a lamp, then got in his friends car.
MPs saw the NCO move his car and pulled them over after they pulled out of the parking lot. Told the NCO they saw him move his car and gave him a breathalyzer. Yes, NCO should have had his friend move the car… but he was trying to do the right thing. He got a suspended Article 15.
Recently I know of some 2LTs that were pulled over with sealed alcohol in their front seats. They had picked stuff up in a store and it was in a bag in the front seat. The state in question law reads alcohol must be “…anywhere in or on the vehicle that the driver does not have access to while the driving:…” Even sealed alcohol. The LTs insisted on breathalyzers and blew 0.00. Didn’t matter. DUIs. My understanding is the COC did not end their careers and put a blast out informing everyone of the law.
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I knew Marines in the early 1980s with 3, 4 even 5 DUIs & they were still in uniform & in good standing. Even senior NCOs & officers. It was treated like no big deal. Akin to speeding tickets. And this was the era in American history when getting a DUI was actually hard - cops would let you go often, especially if you were in uniform or had a military ID. "Just keep it slow & go straight home, ok son?" "Yessir, straight back to the base."

Different culture. Different times.
 
Have we gotten the real story on if these cadets were totally involved in this yet? im waiting to see the facts before placing judgement but I did talk to my son @ USAFA about it a bit since their spring break is only a day away.
 
Day-Tripper said:
The biggest fear used to be popping hot on a drug test.
Now it's getting fetanyl laced whatever & dying from one hit.
Different times.


I knew Marines in the early 1980s with 3, 4 even 5 DUIs & they were still in uniform & in good standing. Even senior NCOs & officers. It was treated like no big deal. Akin to speeding tickets. And this was the era in American history when getting a DUI was actually hard - cops would let you go often, especially if you were in uniform or had a military ID. "Just keep it slow & go straight home, ok son?" "Yessir, straight back to the base."

Different culture. Different times.
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In the 1980s it was possible to survive. I knew one pilot who got a DUI CONUS and was punished by being sent to Korea to “dry out”. Obviously, his chain of command had never been to Korea. That’s the last place I would send someone to dry out.
By the 1990s this had changed and a DUI was the kiss of death for an NCO or officer.
 
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UHBlackhawk said:
In the 1980s it was possible to survive. I knew one pilot who got a DUI CONUS and was punished by being sent to Korea to “dry out”. Obviously, his chain of command had never been to Korea. That’s the last place I would send someone to dry out.
By the 1990s this had changed and a DUI was the kiss of death for an NCO or officer.
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My service spanned 85 to 96 - I remember it as a kiss of death. I had a roommate who didn’t drink but liked to go out and was permanent designated driver. Lifesaver!
 
UHBlackhawk said:
“Kids of death”. Good grief I hate the spell corrector sometimes. Read a post 5 times before posting and… I get kids with knives. And now I can’t change it. I have visions of Chucky.
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Ha ha - I knew what you meant so I didn’t notice your mistake . I think Apple purposely messes with me sometimes🤪
 
Any recent news on this story? Not hearsay, but real life indicators of what really happened.
 
I’m honestly very surprised, with the amount of national coverage the initial event had, that it’s quiet. Don’t disagree it should be, but it was everywhere. And now crickets. Honestly, would just like to know they are all ok medically 🥺
 
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