What sank my application?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by RyanJT, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. RyanJT

    RyanJT New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0


    Hi everyone,

    After MONTHS of waiting and checking the NROTC portal, it finally updated to let me know that I was "not selected for a scholarship." While disappointing, I expected as much, having not hear anything up until now. And I was somewhat glad to finally have some closure after twiddling my thumbs since submitting my application in August.

    So on to the main topic, what sank my application?

    I had a 3.66 Cumulative (4.33 Weighted) GPA taking all honors, AP, and IB classes while attending one of the top 500 High Schools in the USA. I am currently taking AP Calculus, AP Computer Science, and IB Chemistry (among other classes) as a Senior. I earned a 2090 on the SAT ( 730 CR, 740 M, 620 W ) and a 33 combined on the ACT ( 30 E, 34 M, 34 R, 35 S ). I got an 800 of the SAT Math II subject test and a 740 on the Physics subject test.

    I was a 3 year Varsity wrestler, 2-time Varsity Team Captain. I was involved in the summer, coaching youth part-time.

    I am an Eagle Scout with close to 200 hours of community service and NUMEROUS leadership roles.. I had over 100 hours of community service outside of scouts.

    I had a summer job during the summer leading up to my Junior and Senior years, painting walls and working in the shipping area of a wire distribution warehouse, respectively. I also worked year-round mowing lawns (nice warm So Cal weather).

    I am also a white male whose father is an O-5 in the Navy.

    My college choices were:
    1. University of Missouri - Columbia (where I will be attending this fall, not on scholarship)
    2. Purdue University (accepted)
    3. University of California, Berkeley (rejected)
    4. Cornell University (rejected)
    5. University of Virginia (rejected)


    Looking at the other people that have received NROTC scholarships I've been left wondering what area of my application was lacking, and hence what area I need to work on most to try and secure a 3-year scholarship.

    Since submitting my application I began working a part-time job performing soils tests ( working about 6 hours a week).

    Thanks,
    Ryan


     
  2. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,541
    Likes Received:
    842
    I think you will find it was less about what you might have been lacking and more just a numbers game.

    The competition was high with a large number of applicants for a small number of scholarships.

    There are probably a large number of applicants with stats like yours that received the same notice. School selection can sometimes come into play as well. There may have been a large number of applicants for the schools you listed, it's not how to compare to all the applicants, it's more how you compare to ones that listed the same schools.

    You sound like you have a great resume, continue into college with the same drive and ambition and you'll give yourself a better chance of getting one of those sideload scholarships in the future.

    Best of luck
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,809
    Likes Received:
    956
    My guess...your college list.

    You state you live in So Cal, and the only CA college you have on your list is Berkeley. The others, such as UVA and Cornell are high tier colleges. UVA is considered a public Ivy, many IS applicants get Yes from UVA, but waitlist from NROTC for a scholarship. A Yes from UVA as an IS is your stats, OOS are higher because they superscore.

    You just had too many reaches IMPO, and it was combined with high demand colleges.

    Why give you the scholarship to U of Missouri as an OOS, when they could give it to an IS candidate and save tens of thousands every yr?

    Purdue which you also were accepted to is a huge ROTC college, thus, although you were strong enough to get admitted, your stats were not high enough for NROTC.

    Stay on course, I would not be shocked if you get a scholarship in college once there.
     
  4. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,001
    Likes Received:
    319
    Ryan, first off don't get discouraged. Your stats look great. I would say the only and I mean only thing I see is maybe your unweighted GPA may be a tad low. I agree with PIMA in that I would not be suprised if you get offered a scholarship in college. Best of luck.
     
  5. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,670
    Likes Received:
    814
    Ryan,

    I am sorry it didn't work out for you. Your academics, service and leadership look strong.

    It is "easy" to compare these items as they are generally universally understood. I suppose that the difficulty of any school can be measured against others in an analysis you wouldn't see or be aware of.

    Your application essays and interview are also difficult to compare versus other candidates. These "subjective" parts may have been the difference. Perhaps you were held to a different standard because of your father's rank.

    The truth is that these are all out of your control. You (and many other) strong candidates were filtered out in a process that has to restrict the scholarships to a given number. You will never know for sure what "it" was that caused you to fall out of the running.

    Work on that 3-year scholarship. Prove yourself in NROTC as a freshman in every area you can: physical fitness, drill, peer reviews, grade point average, etc. If you feel that the essays or interview could have worked against you then work on attitude, bearing and confidence (vs arrogance). Based on your resume, I am confident you will find a way to meet your goal.

    Best wishes.
     
  6. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,547
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    You have great stats and have an excellent shot at a sideload scholarship provided you do well in the PFA, get 3.5+ or even 3.6+ GPA in college, and demonstrate good leadership skills. Unless I missed it you didn't list your major so it may have simply been that, if it wasn't Tier I or II. Anything else would be surmise on our part. Good luck!
     
  7. RyanJT

    RyanJT New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pima:
    I'm a heritage candidate at Mizzou, so I qualify for in-state tuition. So unfortunately I can't blame the Navy not giving me a scholarship on that.

    Sheriff:
    I've also thought that my unweight GPA was a tad low, and has been mostly a result of taking the harder classes, and more often than I should have ended up sacrificing the A in easier classes for a B in harder classes (mostly in subjects like English that I'm not very strong in).

    Kinnem:
    My major was Mechanical Engineering, which I believe is tier 1.

    And thanks for the support from all of you, your kind words mean a lot to me and this disappointment will not be the thing that deters me from my goals in life.
     
  8. Shawn

    Shawn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    7
    Also consider the timing in which you submitted your application. If I'm not mistaken, the first NROTC scholarship boards are in August. After the first board, the number of scholarships left dwindles while the applicant pool climbs. Something to consider.
     
  9. adam49w

    adam49w New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    I also was denied coming out of high school. My resume was almost exactly the same as yours! 3 years of a varsity sport (lacrosse), above a 4.0 GPA, I'm an eagle scout, I literally got the exact same score on the SAT but one point higher on the ACT, and I am also a white male. I am currently enrolled at Texas A&M as a mechanical engineering major, although my first choice school was The University of Illinois, and am applying for a side load scholarship. You seem like a really smart guy so join ROTC and keep up the good work. I'm convinced that the reason I didn't get it, judging by the opinions of the Lieutenants on campus, is that I applied for an out of state school and that affirmative action got the best of me. Anyways, good luck at Mizzou!
     
  10. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,547
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    I would point out that the Lts do not sit on the board, nor does anyone on the forum. Their opinions are only conjecture. One would have to speak with someone who sat on the board to know the real reason, whatever it is.
     
  11. semperfi50

    semperfi50 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2012
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe I am an exception to the rule, i applied Marine Option and I put down the University of Michigan as my top choice (out of state tuition is almost 50K/ yr), and I was awarded the scholarship there. Like I said, maybe I'm the exception, but I don't think school selection affects the scholarship selection very much, if at all. Btw I gave almost similar stats as you, im white, out GPA, SAT, work experience are the same. I am a chief in the Sea Cadets, which I'm my opinion looks a little better than Eagle Scout because of the naval background. I also run marathons. I think what put me over the top were my essays and interview. Didn't mean to write a novel, just thought I'd share my experience. Keep pushing forward and good things will come.
     
  12. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,547
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    You didn't mention it but as a marathon runner I expect your PFT score was working for you as well. That carries a lot of weight for Marine Options. I think the lack of a fitness assessment for Navy Option is not a wise thing. JMPO.
     
  13. adam49w

    adam49w New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Excellent point kinnem. We shall see how the side load works out.
     
  14. Packer

    Packer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    5
    I think Navy can see what goes on with Army and AF. Kids report really impressive scores on the application but can not pass when they show up on day 1. I don't think any of them lie it is just that they don't do p/u, s/u etc correctly and the PE teacher or coach doesn't know the difference or really care. They just want to help the kid.
    I believe MO candidates have a recruiter proctor their PFT, correct?
     
  15. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,547
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    Yes, Marines always have a recruiter or at least another Marine (perhaps even a Sgt.) do the test. They seem to take it seriously. Bad form reps do not count. Seems to me Navy could do the same since Marines will run their PT once they get to college anyway, although their particular test is different. But, of course, they didn't ask me. :biggrin:
     
  16. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,541
    Likes Received:
    842
    There is also a difference between NROTC and NROTC MO scholarships. You received the MO, had you applied simply for the NROTC you may have been declined.

    It's hard to compare the two.
     
  17. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,809
    Likes Received:
    956
    Off topic, but I always wonder when posters say they did 80 situps in a minute, or whatever the time parameter is, if they realize chances are they never did the proper form.

    I also think many recipients take for granted that they were the chosen few and lose sight of ROTC during their summer. No flaming...I said many, not ALL!

    They don't realize that there is a fire in the non-scholarship recipient come day one to prove that they deserve to be there and they spend the summer training, while the recipient is basking in the glow of the scholarship and because they never read the fine print (PFT) they are now playing catch up.

    Just speaking for AFROTC, but I am betting it is the same in NROTC. Scholarship or no scholarship, the slate is wiped clean the minute you step foot on campus when we discuss how they rack and stack out among their peers. Our DS's det. did not give a fig if you were or were not on scholarship, it was all about how you performed now.

    DS told me a story one time regarding a 100 (freshman) that was dressed down because of PT. They didn't count all of their sit-ups. The cadets response...they counted for my PFT and I am on scholarship! :eek::eek::eek: He was doing this as they were being timed, needless to say he failed. Mainly because he decided to argue instead of buckling down to their standard.

    It was an :eek: for many reasons.
    1. Talking back
    2. Nobody discussed scholarship at the det. BIG NO NO
    3. That was HS, this is now!
    4. Thank you for now letting us find a target using your train of thought! They knew that cadet's name the 1st day, and not in a positive way.

    My point is not getting an HSSP scholarship is disheartening, but you will be amazed how it shakes out the 1st few weeks in ROTC regarding standing.
     
  18. Packer

    Packer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    5
    It might be somewhat of a numbers thing too as I think there are a lot more NROTC, AFROTC, AROTC applicants than MO applicants.
     
  19. dunninla

    dunninla Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,866
    Likes Received:
    5
    YOu have great stats. The only two weaknesses I see could be

    1) uwGPA, and
    2) applicaiton date of August.

    It is also possible that the NETC did not know that you get in-state tuition at U of Mo. Even if it was somewhere in your Application, it may not have trasferred clearly to the Board.

    Your unweighted GPA of 3.66 implies you received quite a few B grades in tough courses. The scholarship winners probably received fewer B grades in those. Using the adage that you can expect to get grades that are a full point lower in freshman year of college than you did in HS, the possibility of a few freshman C grades might have spooked the committee.

    Timing: When one speaks with the Units that are popular, they all stress how important it is to have the Application (Including Officer Interview) completed by June at the latest, or even May if you can. I don't know why this is... perhaps it is a first in, first out review system. I do know that lots of allocated spots are filled out of the very first Board, and if it is FIFO, then you missed that Board.

    Lastly, we do not know how your Officer Interview went.

    As to a side-load scholarship while at UM, just let common sense be your guide. Don't get any Cs, get as many As as possible, be energetic in your involvement in the Unit (volunteer a lot), and watch your body fat % and PFT scores. Volunteering will cause the NROTC Freshman Advisor (probably an O-2) and CDR to *want* to help you out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  20. kmaidaho

    kmaidaho Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    I find this SO interesting because what the NROTC recruiter told us after DS was not awarded a scholarship was that he hadn't selected colleges that would provide for the diversity the Navy is trying to achieve. DS applied to colleges in the West, including the U of I which is only a couple of hours away and in-state. The recruiter told me that my white male DS would have had better chances of getting a scholarship if he had applied to colleges where he would be considered a minority.

    Kat
     

Share This Page