What the HELL is the deal with Navy Football players?

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by Zaphod, May 27, 2010.

  1. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    Good grief! Are they serving something at Team Tables we don't know about? :unhappy:

    And as for the "reason" they gave, that modern technology makes this all obsolete, ARE THEY INSANE?

    These guys should be made to pay back every penny of their USNA education, have their diplomas and degrees revoked, and banned from the NFL for life.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  2. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    I know.... really! I want to know who the other football player is. Heck, I think they should publish all 13 names and their commissioning sources.

    Not sure if this is just speculation or fact. If any others were academy grads they should receive a bill as well; ditto for any who were on a NROTC scholarship.

    The big picture is these football players were not alone. There were others and apparently this has been a problem.
     
  3. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    They are recent grads of a Naval Academy where honor and character were not the #1 priority of the Superintendent.

    The shameful legacy of Jeff Fowler continues........ :thumbdown:
     
  4. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Eckel didn't graduate under Fowler's watch did he?
     
  5. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    Any idiot who went through the course before the final test might recognize that some questions had been changed. Supposedly these are not stupid people. You don't just use last years template to answer your current questions.:thumbdown: What happens when someone kills your satellite and you are out in the middle of no where with incoming a map and a compass? Direct your ARTY without your GPS. Good luck and watch out for the short rounds and friendly fire. "The unintentional or inadvertent delivery of ordnance on friendly troops, instillations, or civilians by a friendly weapon system". All because you couldn't read a map or use a compass.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  6. Maximus

    Maximus Member

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    Stop it, you are trying to make sense out a situation that will never make sense. :yllol:
     
  7. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    When did making sense ever apply to these threads?:yllol:
     
  8. Chockstock

    Chockstock "Forever One Team"

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    ...I'm sure there are plenty of rule breakers at the other SAs who just haven't been caught yet :rolleyes:
     
  9. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Are you suggesting that the rule breakers at other SAs are smarter than the rule breakers at the USNA? :rolleyes:
     
  10. SubSquid

    SubSquid Member

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    Okay Luigi, we get it. You don't like Fowler or Canoe U. Give it a rest. My son is in Quantico for the next six weeks at PLC Seniors. I sent him a copy of McCullough's article. I got a letter back today and he, and his platoon, are furious. I won't tell you what the OCS'ers think should happen to anyone breaking the code of ethical conduct; Ringknocker OR frat boy. The CO's welcoming speech, prior to Pick Up, was apparently about integrity. I guess that more than just the Candidates are a little P.O.ed about this incident. God protect the Candidate that strays from the cold, hard truth.

    At TBS, as I have been told, USNA grads are usually assigned to the same Company. Since they have already experienced a lot of the material, they can spend time in other areas such as MCMAP certifications. I wonder why the platoon mates of these 13 (that were caught) didn't square them away before they went to the dark side?
     
  11. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Shooting the messenger is always the best course of action. :rolleyes:

    But whistling past the graveyard, fiddling while Rome burns, etc - whatever you wish to call it - ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.

    And the lessons learned under Fowler apparently continued on at Quantico for these USNA grads who were caught cheating and thrown out - maybe they thought that they would be given the same special treatment in the field that they got in Annapolis?
     
  12. BR2011

    BR2011 USAFA Cadet

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    First off, maybe the football players should get a little break. 2 out of 13 isnt exactly a huge majority, plus no story is ever printed specifically on some regular Mid misbehaving so they get a little more attention.

    Secondly, Luigi, you post a lot on these forums like you know the inner workings of the Academies for someone who hasnt been to one. Just because you have a kid that goes to one and you read the website and news articles doesnt mean you know anything.

    "Are you suggesting that the rule breakers at other SAs are smarter than the rule breakers at the USNA?"

    This question leads to the truth. Every Academy gets a few bad eggs, its just reality. Most of them don't make it through, but a few sometimes do. You can only hope that they get found out before anything bad happens. I can assure you that that a vast majority of Cadets/Mids that i have interacted with at all of the Academies are great people and will make great officers. The Academies are doing a great job.

    I apologize for the rant but was helped by this forum (and College Confidential) when I applied 3 years ago and since then i feel like its turned into a place where there is a lot more second hand (parent) information posted rather than "real" (Cadet/Mid) information. Maybe that's its purpose, to be a place for parents to get enough information to comfort them when their kids are leaving, but it bothers me when a lot of second hand information/opinion is passed on by people who don't really know what they're talking about especially when its negative in nature.
     
  13. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    No apologies necessary. A valid and pertinent post. Thanks.
     
  14. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    So we should ignore the misdeeds and lack of honor because it's so few.......nice.

    "Officials declined to release the names of the Marines who were discharged, but former Naval Academy fullback 2nd Lt. Adam Ballard told Navy Times that he is one of the 13. He said the problem is more widespread than the Corps wants people to believe, but that officials found only one answer key, so they didn’t have enough evidence to separate other lieutenants."

    Yes, let's all stick our heads in the sand and ignore the problem, it'll just go away. If Navy Times didn't report it, if Zaphod (not Luigi59, btw) didn't post it in this thread, if aglagles (not Luigi59) hadn't made his comment, all would be well and good.

    :rolleyes:

    I'll ignore any personal attack on my credibility and decline to respond, as I have been informed of the rules here and was informed that such posts are not allowed.
     
  15. hawkspoofer

    hawkspoofer New Member

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    live vicariously through... doesn't that count?
     
  16. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    What problem is it that you wish to resolve? This story indicates that the Marines may have a problem at TBS with 2d Lieutenants- what else does it suggest? The story doesn't indicate the commissioning source of any involved beyond the 2 Lieutenants who were football players at USNA. It does indicate that 5 of those involved were female which would tend to indicate they at least were not football players and hence can't have been infected by any D1 virus going around. 2 of those involved were prior service Marine enlisted personnel but beyond that is there some additional statistic that would indicate that Rome is in fact burning as opposed to a book of matches that the Marines have already extinguished by discharging the officers involved?

    It seems to me that many these posts have taken on a "6 degreees of Kevin Bacon" quality in which anything negative that occurs can be linked by those with personal concerns about USNA policies on:(take your pick)
    a. diversity admissions policies
    b. D1 Athletics
    c. general "decline in standards" as a result of changes in traditions undermined by the "terrible leadership" of VADM Fowler
    d. not taking academics seriously enough


    Apparently the Marines had a similar issue in 1995 at TBS. I don't think that Adm Fowler had pinned on a Star yet so he can't have been reponsible then, and USNA had not yet started with its attempts to diversify, and Navy football was at its lowest point in 25 years so what was the common link?

    While I share some concerns about the propensity for the USNA administration to grant second chances to Mids (athletes and nonathletes alike) for honor violations and it rather saddens me to see traditions (for example Herndon) pitched for what appears on the surface to be mostly "just because", still I have a hard time seeing this as an example of USNA as a system failing in its mission and more tellingly - I don't think that the "customers" of USNA see it that way either. For example if the USMC was concerned about the institutional quality of the graduates of USNA wouldn't it be lowering rather than raising the number and % of 2d Lieutenants that they are commissioning from USNA? The USMC sets its commissioning targets and does its own selections at USNA. Of all of the services, they are the least likely to just roll over because of a policy if they think that it is an issue that affects the good of the USMC so it seems to follow that they would be publicly pushing back hard if they had serious concerns about the quality and direction of USNA.
    Sometimes a Cigar is just a cigar to paraphrase Freud- perhaps in this case this is a story about 13 Marine junior officers who cheated at TBS and got caught?
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2010
  17. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    The title of the this thread, "What the HELL is the deal with Navy Football players?" was written by a USNA grad, not me. :thumb:

    MarineCorpsTimes.com chose to publish the fact that 2 of the 8 male cheaters (25%) were ex-USNA football players. They must have thought it relevant to their story. I didn't write it. :thumb:

    A convieniently ignored fact in the ad hominem attacks in this thread. :rolleyes:
     
  18. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    Proving that not every USNA grad is an apologist!

    While the fact that 2/13 were USNA football players is an interesting factoid, I'm not sure how or why it is relevant. And, it does a disservice to football players -- and others -- who serve long, honorable careers.

    I'm sensitive to this b/c two of my female USNA classmates have found fame for unfortunate reasons. That doesn't mean that the other female grads in our class should all be tainted, that something was wrong with the "process," that something USNA did or that happened to us at USNA was responsible, etc. The overwhelming majority of us have gone on to distinguished careers in and outside of the military.

    The fact that the scandal is believed to be more widespread means very little re football players. If 100 Marines were involved, and still only 2 were football players, what does that say? We just don't know and so speculating in the absence of facts makes little sense.

    What troubles me is that at least 13 2nd LTs decided to cheat. These men and women would soon have been leading enlisted people into battle in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. This sort of thing gets people killed. It's reprehensible. Where they went to school or what sport they played is, to me, irrelevant. They're dirtbags and the USMC is much better off without them.

    Bruno -- 100% agree with your post.:thumb:
     
  19. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    "The screening prior to commissioning failed to identify these individuals, but at least it finally worked.".........Colonel Donald J. Meyers USMC (Ret)

    Integrity, vital for leadership by Col Donald Myers USMC (Ret)
     
  20. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    I think he was talking about the process Marines use to screen people from all sources -- USNA, ROTC, OCS -- to enter the USMC officer corps. As far as we know, not all of the implicated Marines were USNA graduates, and certainly all weren't football players, so USNA and football aren't to blame for the other failures.

    So, along with USNA, I guess we should also get rid of ROTC and OCS and . . . how again is the USMC supposed to find officers?

    No screening process is perfect. These are rotten apples and it's sad there are so many of them. At least they were caught before someone got killed.
     

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