What the HELL...

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by USA_All_The_Way, Aug 19, 2010.

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  1. USA_All_The_Way

    USA_All_The_Way Member

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    My situation involving ROTC related matters is somewhat complex. Recently I received numerous calls from various members of cadre wanting to discuss my "options" with the Army that have been unsolicited and almost nearly spontaneous as the 2010 Fall semester has gone on its start off.

    Now that I'm basically a former member of the Golden Buffalo Battalion, I don't see any reason anymore to hold back on my own opinionated perspective: the downtown Denver detachment is more like a fraternity than a self-respecting program. I am not coming down on cadre, as I have respect for my superiors and I know that they have done their service and for this reason are milestones ahead of where I am currently.

    But the cadet chain of command is horrendous. I had been told by many reservist friends of mine that the military can be very inconsistent in its policies and plans. Fair enough. But many of the senior cadets don't seem to give a **** about those on the bottom of the totem pole. I have several examples. One that I will share with all of you here is where I was repeatedly asked by an MS2 (and former active duty) cadet to bring a spare rucksack (that I was accidentally issued in the wrong size for) to the Auraria campus as soon as possible. I remember as crystal clear as day that we had discussed that I would bring the rucksack to the campus and that the fellow cadet in turn would arrange for a way to have the rucksack taking back to the supply office. Well, I did my part, and soon after PT that Wednesday morning, I had texted this cadet about my situation. I received no response.

    This spring semester a girl from my school had a likeness for me and in her social ineptitude she decided she would go and make up lies about me to senior cadets she had known from her previous college who belonged to my company. I have no idea what this girl had been saying to some of these people, but one particular individual, who had commissioned this last May, had said he was going to come after me physically. Additionally, he had been going around saying that there were talks I was going to get kicked out of the program, for reasons I don't even know about. During the MILBALL this last April, while on my way to the restroom at the hotel facility, I realized I was being followed halfway by this cadet until I had turned my back to face him. I guess he was too much of a coward to even go at it with me. And as cliche' as all of this might sound, this is what happened in reality. According to the girl that dragged my affairs into this confrontational bull****, this cadet had also been guilty of cyber harassment and hacking into her Facebook account on a continual basis. Why in god's name did this individual manage to become commissioned as a 2nd liteutenant, I'll never know.

    Alright, now to get back to the point of my personal frustration here: Today I was called twice by a new cadre member, and I happened to receive an e-mail message this morning which was sent less than an hour since the first call was made. I figured that this meant something importantly urgent, and it probably was, but it was the exact opposite of what it was I was expecting. Apparently, I have been essentially KICKED OUT, based on "instructor feedback, PT scores" and the most bull**** of them all, GRADES.

    Grades? My college GPA contributed to this? My cumulative for the freshman year in college is a 3.25, and this last semester's GPA was a 3.36. The bare minimum standard for awarding scholarships fares at 2.50. WTF do my grades have to do with being forced to repeat my MS1 year if I continue AROTC???

    Given all of the recent stressful events thusfar, I have no doubts that someone involved in the higher-up of cadets got involved in this, and I'm pretty sure I know who the culprit is. There are a few legitimate reasons I admit, such as I am regretful to say that my last PT test did not fare as well as the one from the Fall. Of course, this is not to mention the fact that cadet leadership had stated in their own words, that two PT tests would be given, and if the first results were not up to Army standard, a second one could be taken for a final. Due to a drastic change in the weather on the first test, I did about a minute slower on this test than the one from the Fall. I asked about redoing it when the second one came around, and, like with about 95% of the things that cadet leadership says, I was told at the very last minute that the plans had changed and I didn't need to take a second PT test because I "passed", which I guess is now just a complete crock of ****.

    And another thing I don't quite understand is the sentiment about "instructor feedback" as I frequently kept in touch with my MS1 instructor, volunteered my assistance by helping put out flyers for the Vet's Day Race all over the Littleton and Highlands Ranch area, (etc., etc., etc.) and I was even told my MS1 instructor that I was good enough material to go on SMP during a conversation that had nothing to do with the military.

    Well, I'm somewhat irritated as hell. Look's like there's nothing I can do about it now. I guess I did what I could, but still, it seems a little fishy. But I'm all a better person for this, and for that I'm grateful I was able to participate in the Army ROTC program.
     
  2. Kevin23

    Kevin23 Member

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    I'm not in AROTC yet, so don't take my words for it.

    Although this all sounds kind of fishy to me also, however have you confirmed that you have actually been kicked out of the program?

    What I would do is try to speak to your MS1 instructor or someone further up in command, i.e. the officer leading the battalion at your campus.
     
  3. FR4Y

    FR4Y Member

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    I second this suggestion. While your previous experiences with your battalion may have been poor, I would suggest dealing with your MS1 instructor (in person), or someone further up your chain-of-command (again, in person). Venting online, especially when speaking specifics, will never help you get things figured out, and in many cases can come back to haunt you. There are only a few Kevin's at the Golden Buffalo Battalion (and probably one one with your specific situation), and it would be easy to track you down and get you in some trouble.
     
  4. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    USA All the Way:

    Oh dear. That unfortunate rant was seriously bad form. From your previous posts, it appeared to me that you didn't really like AROTC and didn't think it was for you. Apparently that attitude has rubbed off on your cadre, they do not think it's for you either.
    Frankly, I am not sure what you are ranting about. You can have a 4.0 and still be disenrolled from ROTC. If you fail your MS class or fail your APFT, that is a problem. AROTC is not all book learning - it is leadership training.

    I suggest going forward you refrain from spreading rumors about your peers - even on an internet forum. Look, the Army and ROTC is not for everyone, it probably isn't for you and I think you know it. Time to move on and use your talents wisely. :wink:

    PS FR4Y is absolutely correct. Identifying you would not be difficult and you have made some pretty nasty accusations in public. Honestly, you should go to the forum moderator and have this thing deleted before it comes back to haunt you.
     
  5. gojack

    gojack ....

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    USA_All_The_Way,

    After going back and reading all your previous postings, Just_A_Mom is right.
    Time for you to move on.
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    USA,

    I think we all understand your frustration, but I want to point out certain things.

    1. 2.50 gpa min., is a min. Right now in the AFROTC system there were many cadets due to the RIF that were released with that exact same gpa as yours. In our sons det, one cadet was released 3 months prior to commissioning with a gpa above the min.

    On another thread an AROTC cadet had stated that this yr @1000 less AROTC scholarships were awarded...if history is a predictor, to me this is a sign that the Army will soon be following the AF in reducing personnel numbers. Quickest way to do it is reduce scholarship recipients.

    You have yet to say if you were contracted. If you weren't, then all bets are off. They opted to not award your scholarship. Were you type 2 scholarship?

    2. You received no response from the cadet that you texted. An officer can't play the "I did my part" game. It was your responsibility to return the rucksack. You should have never stopped addressing the issue until you got a response. It was your name on the line, not the other cadet's name, because you were the one issued the gear.

    Lesson learned for the future is to take more control over the situation.

    3. Your grades have alot to do with you repeating MS1. Your scholarship is tied to graduating within 4 yrs AND completing the ROTC program. If AROTC is like AFROTC, repeating MS1 means you will have not completed the program, while at the same time you will graduate on time.

    In other words they can't commission you when you graduate.

    4. You posted flyers in Nov. and that was your key involvement?

    Our DS did something like that, but also was at every volunteer function. This included cleaning up the stadiums after football/basketball games, Relay for Life, det clean up days, and at his det they socialize one night a week which he attended many of those functions, just to play foosball, eat pizza and get them to know him as a person. He was rewarded by the det for all of this by being the one to carry the det flag for the Susan G. Komen run, which was a volunteer function.

    The command knew him personally because his face was always there for the DET. By winter break, he was the only freshman in the command that had a nickname (played off of our last name).

    Face time matters.


    5. ROTC is a WHOLE CADET situation. Your PT scores matter. You may have passed the PT, but the score was low, add in your gpa, and the command may have said you are not cutting it from the national standpoint.
    You also seem to be involved in a lot of situations that had generated a negative impact on the morale of the det.

    That is hard to read, but it is something you need to see from your own posts. In your freshman yr you managed to get in the mud at least 3 times. For a ROTC student, that is a lot of incidents for just 1 yr in the program from someone who "just" passed the PT.

    IMHO, it seems that you are blaming/criticizing everyone else, without taking your own personal responsibility of your situation. Remember cadet commanders, are AD, with many yrs of experience, they are viewing YOU as a potential officer in a rack and stack method against everyone else in your class yr. and the nation.

    It is difficult for you to accept right now, because a dream of yours is ending, but they actually did you a favor. When you go to the ROTC board for your career field, your det commander will write a rec. for your packet. Currently, it would not be a glowing rec from your account, thus, you could find yourself spending 5 yrs of doing something you hate.

    Additionally, if the AROTC program is like the AFROTC program, not everyone gets to go to summer training as a rising jr. The lack of that training will hurt you when you go to the board I just mentioned.

    Lick your wounds, and take the time to address where it went wrong for you through your own personal actions.

    I would not close this thread, because too many cadets believe like USA did that if I carry a certain gpa, and pass the PT, I am safe. That may have been true yrs ago, but it isn't now. USA is a key reminder of that fact.

    Best of luck in the future. I hope that you can get past your bitterness and be assistance to future ROTC cadets on this site regarding the pitfalls that exist in ROTC from a more positive position.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2010
  7. Dunvegan05

    Dunvegan05 New Member

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    USA, Pima gave you very solid advice, take heed of it. It is time to cut your loses and try something else.
     
  8. USA_All_The_Way

    USA_All_The_Way Member

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    I had informed my cadre that I did not have any current ambitions of contracting. The MS2 year would have served as preparation for a possible induction into the Navy Reserve, as well as to grasp more of the basic ropes on leadership principles, many of which I think have benefited my life situation as a whole thusfar.

    Fair enough.

    That question was not phrased in a manner as to ask what relevance grades have with the ROTC program. It is just that this was mentioned as one of the possible reasons for being "scratched" from the roster. My company continually emphasized that grades were a major part of your assessment, as much as if not moreso than PT scores. So that's why I had asked why my grades had anything to do with this. I was one grade shy from the honor roll last semester..so...I obviously had some confusion as to why grades would be a disqualifying factor.

    The national average makes perfect sense, and it is something you would expect especially in a program such as this. I wanted to get some general clarity on what my most likely situation at hand is, because I suspect somewhat it had to do with this girl I had discussed in the original post (another story of course).

    No, I did more than that. It was just one example of where I tried to have active participation in the program. I did stadium clean up, FTX and labs, etc. This last semester I went out of my way (as an improvement from the Fall) to make sure I would have perfect PT attendance. I didn't achieve this goal, but I did come very close. Etc., etc.

    A lot of situation that had generated a negative impact on the morale of the det???? I'm confused. You say that you and everyone else here understands the frustration. But is this in reference to the emotions being held, or the actual situation? I'm not perfect, and I'm not saying that anyone here is saying this, but I was initially concerned about what I might be able to do just to get some clarity on all of this. I was somewhat worried someone might have misrepresented me and done so purposefully. And based on some of what has happened, and as crazy and outlandish as it sounds, I believe I have good reason to think this way.

    I think I'm getting the blunt end of the point, and I won't jump to hasty conclusions here. I didn't give it 110%, and that's where I faltered I suppose.

    Forgive me but I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this (and maybe this is what you mean). Are you counting my first post on this board as one of these incidents? I don't know if I expressed myself enough, but when I was asked to rectify uniform apparel, I did so without hesitation. A friend of mine made those remarks, and the individual who had pointed my cover issue out to me was infruriated that I didn't have a beret. What am I supposed to do in this type of situation?

    I won't argue with that, though. You're right. Being "average" does not translate to "superior" or "extravagant", and in many cases, that is what we need. This I can understand, and I respect it.

    Yes, I suppose I could say "fair enough." I don't really feel like writing a book on my personal experiences, but being that this is the internet and everything, I know it's more difficult to articulate exactly how you feel across to others, and why. Now, admitting that I have biases as an individual, and blindspots to which I'm oblivious too, I tried fostering positive relationships with many cadet commanders and cadre as well. I brought up the cadet commanders perhaps without really placing emphasis on one single individual whose morals are questionable to say the least. And by the "cadet chain of command" I am referring more specifically to the communication of things. There is one particular instance in which I was given a great deal of notice to show up at 0600 early morning for an FTX lab up in Golden, and myself (along with MS2s and MS3s) were left without sufficient contact as to where to go next from the campus where we met up with each other. Someone down the line is obviously accountable. I am not trying to generalize the magnitude of MS2s, 3s, or 4s, but some individuals from these groups are responsible for the lack of communication and almost recklessness of the organization itself. I might be doing this anyway, but it isn't my intention of pinpointing blame on everyone else while saying that I was a shining golden statue. I wasn't and I'm not. But things happened which are completely out of bounds of acceptable and moral conduct. I made mistakes, many of which I don't seem to recognize at this point. But I find it appauling, for instance, than an MS4 would make petty threats towards an MS1 without even going through with them, let alone make the threats.

    More or less, that is why I posted this thread. Primarily I wanted to get a general idea of why my predicament is what it is, but I also want to provide a little insight of what I can. I won't try to make this thread about ROTC in general, because I am only familiar with the downtown detachment, although I have been out of state and have visited other ROTC detachments, and I can state that the detachment I was apart of did not place a high standard of cohesiveness on the company. And from what I can tell in the most objective of perspectives as humanly possible, it's the simple truth.

    I am a little embittered towards everything involved, but it seems more and more as I mature and age that life is all about doing what's best when the **** hits the fan. You can't spend endless hours hypothesizing on the past or thinking about what you could have done better as opposed to going after other fruitful pursuits. I don't want to be disrespectful to anyone here or elsewhere (hence why I haven't mentioned any names), but there is no doubting that I'm a little pissed. It's probably gut instinct which tells me that in many ways, not all, that I got the shaft again. Thank you Pima, and Just_A_Mom for your advice, I know deep down its worth something useful.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2010
  9. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    If you didn't have any ambitions to contract then what is the problem? You don't want them and they don't want you. So what. Move on. :thumb:
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Let me get this right. You had no desire to contract into the military, BUT you are upset they cut you loose?

    Even more so it appears that you believe ROTC is an elective like HS. It isn't! It does not exist to make your "life situation" better. It exists to groom future military leaders!

    You also have no desire to go Army, but you want them to spread their assets thinner so you can grasp the basic ropes for the NAVY, and on top of that not even AD Navy, but reserves?

    Before I go further, AND I WILL, please see how that one paragraph just played out to other posters.

    Seriously? You openly admit that you did not have perfect PT attendance in both semesters and you want to beeacch about being cut loose?

    Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades! Our DS who scored so high on the PT for the last 4 semesters that he did not have to attend, but still attended every PT. Even when he was sick as a dog, his butt was there doing it because his mentality was SERVICE BEFORE SELF. He felt that as an officer you have to give 150%, you never take the easy road. That might be because he saw his father do it for 20 yrs as an AD AF officer. He saw his father break his toes, and re-set them at home so he could fly the next day. He saw his father stay at the hospital all night long because his sister was bitten 5 times by a copperhead snake and still reported for work at 8 a.m. He understood Dad reported because his brethren relied on him regardless of what was going on at home. Sorry, but that is what your AD ROTC commanders use as a benchmark when they review you. Missing PT without going to the school health clinic for a sick note doesn't cut it.

    10 will get you 20, they reviewed you and said he barely passed the PT because he did not put an effort into it. Have you contemplated the idea that PT is mandatory, at least in the AFROTC it is? If you acknowledge it is mandatory, and you missed PT, please define to me what you believe the word mandatory means?

    Right now, that statement made you lose all credibility of why you didn't pass the PT.

    This statement is a reason why I would love for you to stay around to impart your own advice. Many candidates do not understand that dets vary. You can assist them through your own situation on comprehending the importance of selecting a det when it comes to their future.

    Maybe if you had a more positive relationship within the det., things would have been different for you. Maybe, you would have been like our DS and motivated to attend every PT on your own volition even when it wasn't required.

    Additionally, since you wanted Navy and not Army, but took Army, you can also explain from your view why this is not a wise choice.

    Truthfully, best of luck. As hard as this was for you, I am sure you will come out of it with a more mature perspective from a college student view. I know I was harsh to you, but I hope you use my responses and criticisms as a way to grow from it for you personally.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2010
  11. nick4060

    nick4060 Member

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    USA,

    Do you have a question or something that the people on this board can help you with? If not, then I dont really understand why you felt it necessary to start this thread in the first place.

    I understand you feel like you may have gotten screwed over, but what do you expect everyone here to do about it. If the purpose was just to vent and get sympathy then I dont see you getting much of that. As it was said before, ROTC isnt just a program to give you a "feel" for the military or to "use" for your own personal growth. Its there to produce officers.

    Sorry if Im sounding like a di*k with this post but i really dont understand why youd start AROTC in the first place if you didnt want to be an Army officer.

    Either way, i hope you find something thats for you and good luck
     
  12. USA_All_The_Way

    USA_All_The_Way Member

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    Like I said previously, the purpose of this thread was to get clarity. This is the board to go to for getting clarity on ROTC issues and the like, correct?

    That was the intent initially. But before having made the committment, I thought it would be a good idea to get a "feel" for the program itself, not just the military. I know that ROTC is not the only one way to a commission. At the end of the day, I've come to the conclusion that the Army "mentality", or what I've seen for myself by reservist and former active duty servicemen, is not "me." So, the followup to this and hence why I posted this thread was to A) get some advice on how I might be able to deal with the situation and B) take the pros of the ROTC program and go with them.

    Well...thanks.
     
  13. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    As I understand the situation: You are out and you want to be out. What needs to be dealt with?
     
  14. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    What kind of clarity are you looking for? You have lost me.
    If you don't want to be in AROTC and got kicked out - what advice are you looking for?
    You got what you wanted.

    *edit - crosed posted w/ aglages
     
  15. USA_All_The_Way

    USA_All_The_Way Member

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    If I had no desire to contract, I wouldn't have joined. I'm not upset that they cut me loose based on this, only for the reasons that they provided. And as I stated before, my PT scores are understandable and legitimate as a reason for why I got the boot.

    I've been told that millions of times, by cadre and other posters here. I know this. You can do research on the program and on the military but you'll never really know unless you actually go in, right? So at first I can go into the program with the intent of earning a commission without really knowing what that entails. And just like you mention further on down, you can never get a feel for different detachments. For all you care, until you actually join a det, it's just ROTC. You go in. You do it. You get it done. But it wasn't that simple for me. Pardon me if I think I had to put up with ridiculous bull**** which kind of put me off from the program, despite my shortcomings and deficiences in performance, which I am not arguing. I don't think anybody here as had the extreme case of some girl who happens to like you going around and trying to make whatever matters are bad worse. So things happened which probably affected my reputation even more than it needed to be. I'm not sure and I'll probably never know. But keep in mind that I have acknowledged everything you and others have been saying. I'm not here just to complain.

    Some of the things that I've been made aware of are off based on my dialogue with the MS1 instructor and so on and so forth. Everything else in the technical and specific sense I am not disputing. The conversations I had with the MS1 instructor, for instance, usually led into appraisal for my efforts in the program. So the fact that grades and performance issues came up where a little disconcerting, PT aside. I figured this was a matter of some mis-communication and maybe some tampering. I'm more than likely wrong. So in that sense, I will admit where I screwed up and have no need to defend myself in those areas. Okay?

    Not the basic ropes of the Navy, the basic ropes of leadership, and a military oriented environment. The plans have changed. This was not how it was going to be from the get go.

    I never took issue with the PT aspect. I took issue mostly with GPA concerns, and my personal experiences which are admittely negative, at least most of what I've mentioned here.

    Truthfully speaking you are correct. I absolutely feel that motivation is key to success and ethusiasm. But this isn't a cop out, nor is it a justification for my PT absences. If you want me to tell you the honest truth behind it all, I was the only other cadet that showed up to the campus during a PT session while spring break had been going on. Admittely this was only once, mostly because for reasons concerning my grades, I was bombarded with projects that needed to get done. I didn't always miss out on PT that was required, nor did I always skip out or fail to attend PT that was. And I never went absent on more than three counts.

    I'm not even disputing the PT. I'm not proud of it. My main issues concern the communication problems I had with the det. and the issue being brought up about my grades, which are relatively successful. Now that I have a better picture as to why they "cut me loose" instead of what might be based on some suspicions of mine, I have no need to ***** at all about the specifics.

    Yes and no, at least in my case. I chose the Army ROTC program for a number of reasons. 1) during MEPS the AF wouldn't take me, 2) I am passionate about my country, I've been to another country overseas, and as nice as it is, I would be insane to forfeit my American identity for anything else, 3) based on the above, I went into the ROTC program for the Army because their admission standards are the lowest, and I wanted to track how well I would do in it and attempt to try to go without a scholarship for the full four years and just simply contract. It was not about spreading their assets thinner to prepare myself for another branch. Sure, it was a flip of the coin, but I'm not in the military and never have been. This was my first shot at seeing what the Army was like, and now I have an orientation. This wasn't purely experimental either. It was to give myself a shot at the opportunity, and obviously it wasn't fulfilled completely.

    Thanks again, and I will take everything said here into consideration, honestly.
     
  16. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    USA,

    Let's go with the clarity issue for a second.

    An AROTC det at one school is going to be unique compared to another school.
    An AFROTC or NROTC det will not be like the AROTC.

    Each service is unique. Otherwise, the Army and Navy wouldn't be able to tease the AF that they are the corporate branch with banker's hours.:wink:
    You can't go into any ROTC program thinking that each branch is identical and one size fits all, it just doesn't work that way. Each branch has their own idiosyncrasies. In the ARMY PT is very serious done early in the a.m., in the AF PT means a round of golf in the p.m.!

    Honestly, I think you chose ROTC without placing an emphasis on the branch.

    I think every poster would agree that you were correct with this premise, since you were not contracted. However, your post was more of a beeaach/blame fest.

    If you had stepped up and said:
    I just got booted from the AROTC det for reasons of my own fault, BUT I am not contracted. I know the Army is not a good fit for me, but I have decided I want to serve in the Navy, can anyone give advice on how to do this? This thread would have gone dramatically different.

    A. Accept the fact that it is over for you with the AROTC program.
    B. Contact the NROTC and AFROTC commanders at your college and have a very frank conversation of why it didn't work out with the AROTC.

    I will say, the AFROTC is going through a RIF, it is highly unlikely that they will take you on, but if the AF interests you, than still try.

    Finally,
    You need to eat some crow here. Step up and accept that this was your failure. Be honest with the NROTC commander and explain the circumstances, but acknowledge you had a hand in this situation. Let them see you have learned from it, and it will not be repeated in their det...that means you show up at PT even with vomit on your shoes because you are that sick...let them call the ball, not you!

    ROTC is about making future leaders in the military. Leaders learn from their own mistakes.

    Best of luck
     
  17. gojack

    gojack ....

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    I think it is not the Army "mentality" but the Military/Officer "mentality" that is not "you"

    As a Officer in the US Military (yes including ROTC) you are a Representative of the United States of America. This includes doing you duty, being in proper uniform and conducting yourself as a public, legal Representative of the President at ALL times. Your attitude through-out your posts, makes me believe that you are not serious...This is not a game, not a club and not a joke.

    The military's job is to kill and destroy at the order of the Commander in Chief. It is not there for your self-discovery, to pay for your tuition or to advance your career. If killing and destroying is something you find distasteful - join the Peace Corps or The Salvation Army.
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    We have x posted.

    I want to say I am continuing this on the open forum instead of pm, because I really believe your circumstances are the best learning experience for future ROTC cadets.

    You, like every other cadet were 17/18 when the process started. You thought you found the right fit, only to realize you didn't. I don't think in any way this has been an easy yr to carry the gpa, do ROTC, and realize that you hate it. I am sure it was painful from an emotional standpoint to be told buh-bye. Your experience, as much as it hurt you, will help many other posters...can you say that if you read your post 18 months ago if you would have gone down this route still?

    Again...anyone that is contemplating ROTC visit the det., speak to the leadership and the cadets. Get a feel if it is a right fit. Dets are not cookie cutters, they are unique, and even though the college may be a good fit, you may not fit the det.

    To me this was USA's problem.

    I think if he investigated the det before enrolling he may not be on this side of the fence. For all we know, if he loved the det., PT would not have been an issue because he would have been motivated to attend.

    I know for our DS's det. they get a review every semester, where they are told the exact rank they are for the class yr and the corp. It was not a conversation, it was a sit down with the command AND a review of their positives and negatives...in other words like AD OER (Officer Evaluation Review).

    To me it sounds like you only got feed back an informal way....again...something all future ROTC cadets should keep in mind when they VISIT the dets.

    Back to the PT issue.
    Are you reading what you just posted, that I placed in bold. Our DS is a rising jr. and he never missed one in the past 2 yrs, let alone 3 a semester.

    If you choose to continue down this road, you really need to accept the fact that you must buckle up regarding PT. It is not enough to say, I know, but let me defend myself. NO, this is the military, you acknowledge you screwed up, salute sharply, and never repeat it again. According to you, you have repeated it, but still want to defend youself.

    Well the question is you know where you tracked, are you going to step up to the plate or you just going to make excuses?

    Honestly, your answer will reflect if you are an officer or you just want to be one. It isn't over for you, but you need to get with the program really quick!
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2010
  19. USA_All_The_Way

    USA_All_The_Way Member

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    I honestly don't know what to say to that. I just mentioned in my previous post or so that I would have gone on through the ROTC program without a scholarship (but would have eventually contracted). And how did this become an issue of being labeled along the lines of a pacifist or someone who thinks the military is all about saluting and uniforms?

    What am I going to say that hasn't already been said that would convince people on the internet that what I'm saying is reflective of reality and based in sincerity? Haven't I already admitted that I screwed up on PT, that it was a legitimate reason for tossing me out (or in other words, not letting me go on as an MS2 but forcing me to repeat the MS1 year)???

    As an FYI to the board, I tried joining the AFROTC detachment at the local university and they never got back to me, despite consistent attempts to get in touch with them. So if I wanted to continue ROTC, which I did (even though I did find out shortly after that you have to contract by your second year in AFROTC) I would have to go back with the Army. And even if I didn't earn a commission with AROTC, I could still use it for other opportunities with the military as a backup plan. You have to have a backup plan, right?

    I know for myself and as a fact that I can endure and tolerate what it is I don't feel comfortable with. I am not stupid and ignorant enough to not venture out of my comfort zone and do something for the sake of getting above and beyond myself. I may not be the shining image of the ROTC world, I'm not perfect. I don't know how many other ways I can say this without getting penalized on my "credibility". I have done all sorts of things, even aside from ROTC, that I did not want to do and I did it anyway to mature myself. I have worked in work environments with absolutely horrendous coworkers who would throw **** in your face in front of customers and would simply chuckle to themselves because of the humor in degrading another person publicly. And when I say this, it isn't meant to solicit crocodile tears. It's just as Richard Macowicz says, the desire to quit during pressure is a rational motive, but you will never overcome obstacles if you don't build a tolerance level. I know for a fact I have put up with ****, and will continue to do so. So I no longer aspire to be an officer in the Army, this means I can't go back and kick *** and push myself even harder than previously?

    This thread was to get clarity, in the sense that I get some advice on how to deal with this or what is probably going on. I know this hasn't been mentioned all that much except for the sentimental "we know you're frustration" but I have dealt with some horse****, OUTSIDE OF THE ROTC PROGRAM this past semester. And yes, as a defect of the detachment, there are serious communication and cohesion problems. Now, if I could:

    Did I screw up on PT attendance? .YES

    Did I not give the ROTC program my 110% or 150%? YES.

    Do I realize I was not the best cadet, and that I did not go in as an ideal officer candidate? YES.

    Did I get involved with some people I shouldn't have (and learned this the hard way)? YES.

    Did I not hold myself accountable to the appropriate degree measure? YES.

    I don't know what else to say, but I guess it isn't good enough. We've gone from this to accusations of being a conscientious objector who wants to dress up and have a tea party. So I suppose this can't go anywhere all that much more productive. I'm here to say my peace and speak on my behalf, I'm not here to perpetuate sympathy for myself or have anyone else give me a pat on the shoulder. I was just a little annoyed by it, and felt like I was partially robbed for x, y, and z which are now known variables. And I have no reason to deny or cover up my shortcomings, as I have acknowledged these several times now. I have no idea how this becomes construed as making excuses for myself. Because I didn't fail to mention the detachment has a major fault of its own or something?

    There you go. I screwed up and have learned some new things from the people here, including you, Pima.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2010
  20. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    DEEP BREATHS.

    USA,
    Again, I believe you are being reflective. I think that you need to stay here so you can just finish the 5 stages.
    1. Denial...you probably entered that sometime in the spring semester. I am guessing you had an inkling.
    2. Anger...your first post was filled with anger
    3. Bargaining...a few posts back you were saying, what can I do now?
    4. Depression...the last post is hitting that marker, not saying you need to take meds, just saying it hurts. It hurts even more that you turned to us for support to be slapped left and right by the site.
    5. Acceptance...this is where you still need to come.

    Seriously, as an 18/19 yo this is a death blow to you. I get that.

    My question about tracking was not meant to insult you, it was meant to say, what are you going to do now? An officer, will say okay we need to do X,Y and Z. I am sorry you felt I was attacking you, but I wasn't.

    You can turn this around. Trust me, you can, but you now need to put every fiber in your body to do it. If you just want to say Oh WOAH is me, than WOAH is you. If you want to say HELP ME, than say it.

    We all will join in and start giving you ways to get around this. We will sit here and write it out as long as it takes. We will be here for you, morning, noon and night.

    Ask and we will be there.

    I think because this is an internet forum you did not take my post in the proper way. My point was not meant antagonistically, it was meant to say...okay, you now know where you stand, what are you going to do? Think of your Mom speaking calmly. What are you going to do...are you going to step up to the plate, or are you going to walk away? Either way, I will respect your decision, but you need to make a decision one way or another.

    When I said your answer will show it, I meant, if you really want to be an officer, nothing anyone says here will stop you. If it is a "I thought I'd like to serve" mentality, you will throw up your hands and say I am outta here.

    I still believe you can do it, but it is up to you and you alone.

    Best wishes, and please keep talking this out, don't walk away. It will do you no good.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2010
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