Which Army MOS's are the most/least competitive?

[USMCGrunt]

Politicians and lawyers? Have they not learned anything!?

I was trying to be generous.

 

[kinnem]

DS wants Infantry because of what you all said about being on the front lines of serving and protecting his country. And also, he thinks it's critical to have combat experience if you want to be taken seriously in any military job, or in fact any job in which your "military experience" might count for something, like politics or criminal justice. Would love to hear your take on this, kinnem, aglahad, mbitr, and anyone else who wants to chime in.

My son wants Infantry as well, primarily as a path to MARSOC. Obviously he wants to be behind the enemy lines. But in some sense I'm not sure it's about combat for him, or at least solely combat. He has always had a keen interest in acquiring unusual skills. He has studied and mastered some ancient and practical arts on his quest to acquire such skills. He also likes to challenge himself physically, at least now, which is a real surprise to me as it was difficult to get him to do any more than required for high school wrestling. I think ultimately it's about earning the recognition to belong to what he feels to be the best.

 

[scoutpilot]

After the Captains Career Course, so 03.

Yeah that's true but by then many are almost Majors as I have never met an O-3 with the log insignia (not saying they don't exist obviously). People go to CCC at varying times slot/command depending but you are right O-3 is the lowest rank for LOG.

Again, no. A select few might be almost majors. The vast majority are far from it. I want to CCC with my cohort YG and that was 5 years before our average pin-on for major.

 

[Aglahad]

Again, no. A select few might be almost majors. The vast majority are far from it. I want to CCC with my cohort YG and that was 5 years before our average pin-on for major.

AMEDD is wonky obviously because we all go at random times, it's supposed to be right at O-3 but it kind of becomes when you have a chance to go. But yeah you are right. However, I have seen quite a few new CPTs (non-AMEDD) have to wait a bit before going to CCC (albeit not too long) unless they were slotted to get a command.

 

[scoutpilot]

AMEDD is wonky obviously because we all go at random times, it's supposed to be right at O-3 but it kind of becomes when you have a chance to go. But yeah you are right. However, I have seen quite a few new CPTs (non-AMEDD) have to wait a bit before going to CCC (albeit not too long) unless they were slotted to get a command.

The bulk of a YG will get CCC before command, but it is not a pre-req for command. A lot of people try to put it off, for whatever reason. It's too easy not to, especially if you've been running hard with deployments.

 

[Aglahad]

The bulk of a YG will get CCC before command, but it is not a pre-req for command. A lot of people try to put it off, for whatever reason. It's too easy not to, especially if you've been running hard with deployments.

What percentage of company commanders do you think will have CCC before they start command? If it's not a pre-req I assume you would have to be a stud especially in a MFE unit to get a command without CCC?

 

[MabryPsyD]

What percentage of company commanders do you think will have CCC before they start command? If it's not a pre-req I assume you would have to be a stud especially in a MFE unit to get a command without CCC?

I went to 2 CCC (Signal in 2007 and AMEDD in 2009). We had 2 MAJs in SCCC and several LTCs in AMEDD CCC. The only reason the AMEDD LTCs attended CCC is it was required for them to pin on COL.

I was assigned as a department chief prior to arriving at the hospital; while attending SCCC TDY enroute (AMEDD company command with civilians and contractors).

I imagine the Army wants CPTs to attend prior to command to prevent commanders from being absent from their company for long periods of time. Again, its not required to have CCC prior to command, but its a consideration.

 

[scoutpilot]

I went to 2 CCC (Signal in 2007 and AMEDD in 2009). We had 2 MAJs in SCCC and several LTCs in AMEDD CCC. The only reason the AMEDD LTCs attended CCC is it was required for them to pin on COL.

I was assigned as a department chief prior to arriving at the hospital; while attending SCCC TDY enroute (AMEDD company command with civilians and contractors).

I imagine the Army wants CPTs to attend prior to command to prevent commanders from being absent from their company for long periods of time. Again, its not required to have CCC prior to command, but its a consideration.

You can't attend during command. CCCs are a PCS move.

No, you don't have to be a stud. It wil largely depend on timing and personnel flow.

 

[NavyHoops]

After serving as an USMC Infantry Officer I wanted to throw some jab at all the other MOS' but honestly can't.

I hear your DS' sentiment again and again on this forum and from my children's friends. I can't fault the inexperience of high school students. They see movies, TV shows even news coverage highlighting the front line troops. But no one military occupational specialty has any higher importance than the other. You don't want to be in a front line unit that has outrun its supply chain. Or an artillery unit that isn't getting good intelligence. Or a forward air observer that can't communicate with the battalion CP.

An analogy: Football. The quarterback may get all the attention but he needs all the other players to execute if he is ever going to do his job. Teamwork.

Two other quick points: our recent endeavors haven't really seen "front lines" in the traditional sense. From convoys to attacks at base camps, nearly everyone is on the "front line." Regarding combat experience, who knows what can happen between now and the time your DS hits active duty. We may enter into a prolonged period of peace or peacekeeping.

What military experience will provide is discipline, responsibility, committment, leadership and a focus on accomplishing the mission. These are skills valued in any profession including politics and criminal justice.

I encourage him to read business books and other writings about a career after military service. Many officers make superb business leaders, politicians, lawyers, etc. Not all had combat experience.

As usual USMCGrunt is spot on. I think when you report to TBS every single guy in the class says he wants to be a grunt. In reality there were maybe 35 infantry spots for 180 or so Lts with ground MOSs. As TBS progressed there was a drop in the desire to go infantry. As USMCGrunt stated, all MOSs are critical. For those who truely understand how a MAGTF operates, all MOSs are needed to make that construct work. And if the mission does not need an MOS for some reason, guess what? Every Marine is a rifleman. If you walked around a Marine base in Iraq or Afghanistan half the time you couldn't tell what MOS was guarding bases, running convoys, etc. Yes grunts were performing the knock down the door stuff, but guess who got them there? Truck drivers, helo pilots and crews, and lots of very hard working maintenance Marines (these jobs have no glory and they are some of the hardest working folks you will ever meet). Some of my friends who have the most set of ribbons, war wounds and saw the most combat were Logistics Officers assigned as Motor Transport Platoon Commanders. Doesn't sound like a job every Lt dreams of? They did. Some of my best friends are Civil Affairs Officers and did some of the coolest stuff ever and also saw just as much action as some grunts.

There is good and bad in every MOS. Regardless you will lead Marines, learn your strengths and weaknesses, grow as a person and leader, learn time management and leadership. Every Marine returns to the civilian world eventually... some in 4 years, others in 30. Its not like they are putting down the number of doors they knocked down, people they shot or other things along those lines on their resumes. They are selling themselves for their leadership and skills associated with that. Talk to those who have been in the business for awhile. We are slowly moving back to a peacetime force with reduced funding (or tomorrow we could be fighting 2 wars again... we never know). Understanding what that means is critical, because that is most likely what new Lts will face when they get to their first units (unless things change).

 

[runslikeajohndeere]

DS wants Infantry because of what you all said about being on the front lines of serving and protecting his country. And also, he thinks it's critical to have combat experience if you want to be taken seriously in any military job, or in fact any job in which your "military experience" might count for something, like politics or criminal justice. Would love to hear your take on this, kinnem, aglahad, mbitr, and anyone else who wants to chime in.

This sounds like an argument I've heard from an officer that has made an impact on DS. Like any occupation, those that have earned their stripes and make sound decisions are always held in high respect. Sometimes I wish my administrators and policy makers knew more about children and education from practical experience.

 

[Aglahad]

You can't attend during command. CCCs are a PCS move.

No, you don't have to be a stud. It wil largely depend on timing and personnel flow.

I know you can't attend during a command because of the sheer length of most CCC but like how they push BOLC hard to get you deployable and to a unit I didn't know how important CCC was to have before command.

Below 180 days is just a TDY right?

 

[mbitr]

DS wants Infantry because of what you all said about being on the front lines of serving and protecting his country. And also, he thinks it's critical to have combat experience if you want to be taken seriously in any military job, or in fact any job in which your "military experience" might count for something, like politics or criminal justice. Would love to hear your take on this, kinnem, aglahad, mbitr, and anyone else who wants to chime in.

Your kid will wise up eventually. The work these branches do is not pretty when the rubber meets the road. I was very lucky on deployment. A lot of the combat arms guys I've worked with over the years weren't. After listening to an infantryman talk about trying and failing to pull his buddy out of a burning Bradley while he himself was on fire, a medic pulling dead kids out of rubble, a pilot talk about about medevacing dead Joes, etc., any illusion you have about there being glory in any corner of the military goes away. The Army needs people willing to subject themselves to these things. I admire and respect them for it but I'm also glad I didn't have to do it. A lot of those guys came back damaged goods.

And then more generally there's the quality of life issue. Combat arms doesn't make for the best family life because you're going to be out in the field training more often than your AG or whatever counterparts. Jumping out of planes and carrying a tank on your back all the time isn't the best thing for your body either. There's a reason for those old stereotypes like the hard of hearing artilleryman and the infantryman with bad knees. A VA check isn't worth my health. Most prior enlisted guys (not some SMP kid who hasn't done anything) will tell you something along these lines.

That isn't to say that there isn't anything unpleasant about other branches. But there's a difference between running into trouble and looking for trouble. If your last name ends in Patton or Petraeus (Junior might want to think about changing that someday) or you have ambitions of being the next JCS chairman, then combat arms is your best bet. This is where the people who wind up moving the chess pieces come from. But if he wants to move into the private sector then combat arms isn't going to give him a leg up on, say, the Signal guy who has easily tansferable experience. Your average business isn't going to care about trigger pulling, they're going to care about the experience in managing a large organization that you bring to the table. If your son wants to do something exciting, tell him to look into Aviation. They fly cool stuff and their quality of life ain't bad aside from being in high demand for deployment.

 

[runslikeajohndeere]

:thumbup:

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[Aglahad]

DS wants Infantry because of what you all said about being on the front lines of serving and protecting his country. And also, he thinks it's critical to have combat experience if you want to be taken seriously in any military job, or in fact any job in which your "military experience" might count for something, like politics or criminal justice. Would love to hear your take on this, kinnem, aglahad, mbitr, and anyone else who wants to chime in.

I am pretty supportive of whatever a person wants to do as long as it is in reason. Just some points that I have probably said before haha:

1. So your DS goes infantry and commissions in 2017 during a peacetime Army and never deploys. History shows us if you stay in long enough you will probably eventually deploy but timing is everything. A infantry PL (2/1LT) will have a much different experience than a infantry Major in a staff role while deployed. Also a garrison infantryman's life is 180 degrees different.

2. Taken seriously in the military? Combat experience? I think that is really just his perception of what a soldier is talking and not a voice of experience or maturity. Give it time.

3. I know plenty of combat vets who couldn't get police jobs and also quite a few cops who were never in the military. Veteran status helps but combat experience won't define employment on the outside. A lot of employers are very unfamiliar with the military in general, most wouldn't know the difference between a 11B and a 88M.


You will find a lot of the green to gold guys steer away from branches like infantry (especially if they were infantry) and lean towards other branches like MSC, log, MI etc.

His opinion may change in 3 years and I recall literally every MSI wanting to be MI, IN or AV right out of the gate.

 

[scoutpilot]

His opinion may change in 3 years and I recall literally every MSI wanting to be MI, IN or AV right out of the gate.

Well, every kid dreams of being an astronaut, too. Then reality sets in...

 

[khergan]

Statistically it is infantry, aviation, armor, intel and med service that are the hardest to get. Everything else falls in line behind that with logistics and chemical being the perennial red headed step children.

However, just like others have said, a cadet should choose whet they're truly interested in doing. Infantry or armor aren't skills that are transferable to the civilian sector. A guy in signal corps or logistics can walk into a six figure job of he plays his cards right. So take heed, because popular does not really mean much. Many times, those popular branches might have significantly worse quality of life. Being a former airborne infantry guy, I can tell you there is a good reason none of my platoons marriages survived. We simply were never home.

Take that into account.

 

[scoutpilot]

Statistically it is infantry, aviation, armor, intel and med service that are the hardest to get. Everything else falls in line behind that with logistics and chemical being the perennial red headed step children.

However, just like others have said, a cadet should choose whet they're truly interested in doing. Infantry or armor aren't skills that are transferable to the civilian sector. A guy in signal corps or logistics can walk into a six figure job of he plays his cards right. So take heed, because popular does not really mean much. Many times, those popular branches might have significantly worse quality of life. Being a former airborne infantry guy, I can tell you there is a good reason none of my platoons marriages survived. We simply were never home.

Take that into account.

I've known many an infantry officer who walked into a six-figure job, and the average signal officer knows far less about comms and computers than most people think.

 

[Jcleppe]

Well, every kid dreams of being an astronaut, too. Then reality sets in...

Hey...Wait a minute!!

You mean to tell me I may never become an Astronaut, well that just sucks.

 

[Aglahad]

Well, every kid dreams of being an astronaut, too. Then reality sets in...

We had a kid come in who said he literally wanted to be the next Patton, so it wouldn't surprise me.....

Why stop there? Be a Patton/MacArthur/Eisenhower/Schwarzkopf/Powell hybrid haha. C'mon be creative!

 

[kinnem]