Which branch is "less" competitive for scholarship?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Leo, Mar 23, 2016.

  1. Leo

    Leo New Member

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    Air Force vs Army.

    I will be college freshman very soon with Engineering major and i am willing to serve more than 10 years in any branch.

    But the problem is i didn't get enough financial aid which can pay for my tuition... and my family does not have ability to support me financially..... this is why i need as more scholarship as possible.

    Any opinion?


    My High school GPA is 3.6 with 1980 SAT score.
     
  2. Usnavy2019

    Usnavy2019 Member

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    AROTC-dad and nofodad like this.
  3. cptenca

    cptenca Member

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    The Army is in the process of separating 10,000 officers as it downsizes. Don't expect easy scholarships. As the Army needs fewer 2LTs, the academy sizes will get smaller and extremely qualified applicants will turn to ROTC. Of the ROTC graduates, fewer will get active duty than in the past. If your desire is college funding and to be an officer you may consider ROTC and national guard simultaneous membership. Depending upon your state and university, the national guard tends to have the best college benefits.
     
  4. zachcleigh

    zachcleigh Member

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    <

    Currently have 5 friends in the GA Army National Guard doing SMP. All of them say they think they made a great decision in joining.
     
  5. nofodad

    nofodad Member

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    Just looking at available officer slots, you'd have a better shot at the Army. Those two branches differ in mission and culture...just sayin.'
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    The one thing to realize since you need the scholarship to attend the school is that the AF scholarship is 2 + 2. You need to be selected for Summer Field Training (SFT) as a sophomore. If not selected than chances are high that they will disenroll you from the program, thus the loss of the scholarship.

    OBTW statistically the chances are the same, @16-18% of all cadets are on scholarship.

    I also agree that college is only 4 years, and not 24/7, plus it is where you chose to live and major in what you want. The military is service before self. You can ask for a certain career at a certain base/post, but there is no guarantee that they will give that to you. So think long and hard about which branch you want to serve in if you don't get your top choice of career. Are you willing to live at Mt. Home, Idaho or Del Rio, TX for 4 years instead of bases like Eglin, Shaw, Hickam (the pretty places), because somebody is going to get those bases as an O1.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  7. JaxNavymom

    JaxNavymom Member

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    I don't know if this helps but my son is in a similar situation. Every college he has applied to and been accepted at have ROTC programs. This week the plan is to call the cadres and ask how many college programmers usually get scholarships after a year or so. If they can give an answer it will make a huge difference in his decision. Also a handful of colleges give "alumni" scholarships to college programmers. Every 2-3 thousand helps and makes a difference!
     
  8. Stealth_81

    Stealth_81 Super Moderator Moderator Founding Member

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    It sounds like you will be a freshman this Fall (2016). Be aware that the deadline for both Army and Air Force ROTC scholarships has passed for this Fall's class. You would not be able to apply for one for this year, but you could join ROTC without a scholarship and compete for one of the in-college 3-year scholarships.

    Stealth_81
     
  9. rocatlin

    rocatlin Member

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    I see that National Guard was brought up. Some states will pay college tuition if you join the Guard. I don't have an opinion one way or another on this particular way to get college paid for -- but I understand it's an option.

    You could also look at going to a community college to get some of the basics out of the way and apply for scholarships during that time. Some universities also have "remote" ROTC units associated with community and junior colleges.

    Just throwing things out there since finances this year seem to be a concern. As Stealth stated, you've already missed the deadline for scholarships if you start college in the fall.
     
  10. 5Day

    5Day Member

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    The better question to ask yourself is what branch of the military do you want to be in. But, since you are doing it for the scholarship and you have no preference as to which military branch, IMHO Army would be the better option. Mostly because the 2+2 @Pima talks about.

    Call both units at the school you are going to. Ask them about their college program. Find out how successful they have been a getting college program participants a scholarship.
     
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  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    FWIW, the gpa really means nothing because nobody knows your curriculum rigor or your HS profile. 3.6 and a schedule filled with PE, teen living, and basket weaving is not the same as the kid with 5 APs, etc. Same is to be said about if you have a 3.6 and 0% go to Ivies, compared to the kid with a 3.6 and 25% go Ivy.

    For AFROTC it is best sitting, not a superscore for the SAT. AROTC will use the superscore. Writing is not included. I believe 1280 is the avg for a type 7, but unless you are going In State, or your college will charge you In State rates, than you would have to convert it to a 3 yr. type 2 scholarship.

    Let's assume that you get an In College Scholarship, and come spring semester you have them picking up the check. AFROTC will give it to you as a tech major. If you decide you hate or can't handle the engineering program, and now want to be a Govt. major (non-tech) you will need HQ AFROTC to approve that, chances are they will say no. That means you either stick with the program or give up the scholarship.

    Plus, you need to look at your merit package from the college. AROTC will allow you to use it for tuition or Room and Board. AFROTC is only tuition. Thus, if your college says that your merit can only be used for tuition, the AFROTC scholarship will really not help since it is duplicating your merit scholarships.

    I am not saying don't apply for it and hope that you will get one next fall as a college freshmen, but I am saying that you need to really investigate each program from a scholarship perspective.

    I agree with 5Day. Contact the ROTC units. I would also say when you get enough posts, and if Clarkson has not replied to this question, pm them for guidance. Clarkson is at an AROTC unit, and may have unique insight into your needs for trying to garner a ROTC scholarship after the boards have met for 2016/2017
     
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  12. 5Day

    5Day Member

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    @clarksonarmy should be able to provide some input. I believe his school has both Army and Air Force ROTC programs.
     
  13. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    If you look at the mission goals for the Army and Cadet Command the numbers for new 2LTs from ROTC to Active Duty are planned to remain the same as this year for about 4 more years. While they are separating officers, many are coming from the middle bulge left over from the past higher levels. The need for new junior officers is still there and doesn't seem to be shrinking in the near future from it's current levels.

    Of course this doesn't mean that scholarships will remain at the same level. There seems to be a small shift to more campus battalion scholarships and 3 year AD scholarships, but even those numbers seem to be at a constant right now.

    Best thing for the OP to do if he is interested in AROTC is to show up in shape and ready to do well academically to put themselves in the best position for what ever scholarship may be available. Start talking to the Battalion Recruiting officer now.
     
  14. DJA

    DJA Member

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    Most recent information on AROTC scholarships from UNG if you apply in the fall:
    http://ung.edu/military-college-adm...larships-and-grants/army-rotc-scholarship.php

    What are my chances of getting the Army ROTC Scholarship?
    It depends. Army Cadet Command looks at three areas of performance in what they term Scholar/Athlete/Leader (SAL) criteria.

    Scholar criteria is determined from your high school grades and SAT or ACT scores. The higher your grades and scores, the better your chances.

    Athlete criteria is determined by your participation in sports, your performance on the President's Challenge Fitness test, and whether or not you meet the Army's height and weight standards. The better your physical and athletic ability, the better your chances.

    Leader criteria is determined by your participation in leadership positions in extra-curricular activities both in and out of high school during your high school years. Particular emphasis is placed on leadership positions you may have held on sports teams, volunteer activities, part-time work, clubs, scouting, church, etc.

    The more extensive your leadership record in these activities, the better your chances. The Cadet Command selection board makes decisions based on the strength of your application compared to the applicant pool. The profile for the 2015 academic year nation-wide recipients:

    94% were in the top 50% of their classes in academics (69% were in the top 25%)
    36% were class officers
    90% earned varsity sports letters
    60% were varsity team sports captains
    32% were in JROTC
    17% were club presidents
    3.6 average GPA
    1246 math + critical reading SAT; 27 ACT composite score (over 28 for 4 year winners)


    How many scholarships are available nation-wide?
    For the academic year 2015-2016, 4,161 high school senior applications for the scholarship were reviewed.

    About 2,500 applicants were awarded a scholarship. About 30% of those were 4-year scholarships and 70% were 3-year scholarships.


    What is the difference between a 4-year and a 3-year Army ROTC Scholarship?
    Cadet Command awards both three year and four year scholarships through the centralized selection process.

    The top candidates are selected for four year scholarships, others are awarded three-year scholarships, and others are not selected at all. If you are awarded a 4-year scholarship, then your benefits will be paid your freshman year as long as you pass the Army fitness test, medical exam, and meet height and weight requirements.

    If you are awarded a 3-year scholarship, your benefits will begin your sophomore year as long as you pass the Army fitness test, physical exam, remain in good academic standing, and meet the height and weight requirements.

    Final award of the 3-year scholarship is at the discretion of the Professor of Military Science at UNG.


    What is my service obligation?
    Any Army commission, Active Duty, Reserve or Guard, carries an 8-year service obligation.

    If you receive an Army ROTC scholarship, then you must commission and serve in the Regular Army for at least 4 years after you graduate from UNG. The last 4 years of your service obligation may be served in the Guard, Reserve, Individual Ready Reserve, or you may remain on active duty for the full 8 years or until retirement.

    It is also possible to commission directly into the Army National Guard or Reserve without commissioning active duty. Obligation is 6 years of active drill duty (one weekend per month and two weeks of annual training), plus two years in the Individual Ready Reserve.
     
  15. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    Spending 10 years in the AF will be vastly different than 10 years in the Army. You may think you want to do 10 years and the branch is not important, but I suggest you find out which will best fit you.
     
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  16. Falcon A

    Falcon A Member

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    DJA -- I agree that the "4,000 number" of AROTC applications posted above is what is posted on the UNG FAQ page, but the number is closer to 10,000 applications. clarksonarmy provided the following:

    "Falcon A, Feb 19, 2016: I've seen conflicting info . . . UNG FAQs said just over 4000 applications for Army ROTC scholarships, but I've also seen on Norwich FAQs and other places that the typical number of Army ROTC applications is around 10,000 each year. My sense is that the number is probably closer to the 10,000 number. Others may know more.

    clarksonarmy, Feb 19, 2016: I pull those numbers every year. 10-12k start an application. 8-9k actually complete their file, and roughly 3k offers are made. Those are rough numbers and they are trending down."

    Here is the link to that thread if interested: http://www.serviceacademyforums.com...my-rotc-scholarship-boards.46574/#post-467788
     
  17. Leo

    Leo New Member

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    Thank you very very much for answering my question.... I decided to take one year gap, be Indiana resident and join National guard to pay for my tuition.

    Also, i decided to join Army ROTC.
     
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  18. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    That sounds like a wise, well thought out decision. I recommend you touch base with the recruiting officer (ROO) at the school you'd like to attend and discuss your options coming in, and make sure to ask about the minuteman scholarships for guardsmen. You also need to know that by coming in as a guard member you are going to be steered towards remaining a guard member when you graduate. If you desire active duty, or want to have that option be careful about accepting some of the scholarships that may be offered to you.
     
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  19. Dckc88

    Dckc88 Member

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    To expand on what Clarksonarmy said about being careful as to what scholarship you accept to make sure you can go active duty, we were warned of this also. Before signing any scholarship agreement have the ROO at your intended school look over the paperwork first, they can give you guidance.
     
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  20. DJA

    DJA Member

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    Falcon A -In 2014 there were approximately 12-13,000 applications (one who started an application) according to the AROTC (see below.) So if 8-9k actually complete a file as referenced above, then perhaps UNG really means after ranking by OML 4k are seriously reviewed by the board and 2500 were offered. Not sure, but I think the key number is 8-9k actually completed a file so that's the number I think UNG should have used but I realize WP and AROTC usually use the number of applications started. Just my humble opinion.

    upload_2016-3-24_9-11-24.png
     
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