Active duty vs civilian college.

I am still waiting to hear back on a medical waiver for West Point. My RC told me this late in the process it’s likely I may not receive a waiver this year. I have a 4 yr ROTC scholarship to a civilian college; however, I am highly considering enlisting active duty for a year and reapplying to WP. If I did enlist would there be any challenges as for going to the academy? Like trouble getting out of my contract.
Has anyone on this forum seen this route opposed to going to a civilian college for a year?

You're best bet is to go ROTC, mimic a plebe curriculum, and re-apply. If you enlist you will require endorsements from the chain of command and you may (probably?) will not have been around long enough to merit that. ROTC will better prepare you, teach you leadership, teach you obedience and discipline etc. etc. I understand that you can get some of that from enlisting but I'm doubtful of the leadership opportunities in the first year.

Also, if your re-application doesn't work out your still on a path to becoming an officer with your tuition being paid by the US Government. You'll get your opportunity to serve soon enough.

kinnem said:

Also, if your re-application doesn't work out your still on a path to becoming an officer with your tuition being paid by the US Government. You'll get your opportunity to serve soon enough.

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That is very solid advice, kinnem

Kinnem is absolutely right. When you apply to college, both the academies and every civilian college look at your GPA and SAT/ACT scores as way to figure out if you will do well in their school. Its a crap shoot in a way, because there are people who do great in high school and crappy in college. There are also people who do crap in High School and great in college. Now if you attend 1 year of college while taking the same type of course offered at WP and you do very well, you have now proven yourself and there is no guess. Any scholarship you received to do ROTC wont be held against you if you transfer to WP. Now lets say you still dont get into WP, you wind up with a college degree, no tuition and you will still commission as a 2nd LT in the US Army. The end goal is still the same. If you enlist, the upside is if you do go to WP, but if you dont, you will have to finish your enlistment and then go to college. Not sure what the GI gives you but who knows if you will get another 4 year Rotc scholarship.

I'm sure I could find this if I searched but would someone please clarify for me....if applicants are DQ'd by DoDMERB, aren't they DQ'd from ROTC and enlistment? Are the medical standards not the same?

SAnew22 said:

I'm sure I could find this if I searched but would someone please clarify for me....if applicants are DQ'd by DoDMERB, aren't they DQ'd from ROTC and enlistment? Are the medical standards not the same?

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I’m dq from rotc. Not enlisting.
That’s another thing rotc hasn’t even pursued a waiver for me yet. So my first year of college likely won’t be paid for either way. I should be fine enlisting because the reason I’m dq is because dodmerb added dqs For issues ive never had.
I already have 25 credits of college with a solid gpa. And high act scores.
I feel enlisting will be the best option for me. I know myself.
My question was would I have difficulty getting into WP for reason of contracts or needing endorsements from my chain of command.

Futurecowboy99 said:

SAnew22 said:

I'm sure I could find this if I searched but would someone please clarify for me....if applicants are DQ'd by DoDMERB, aren't they DQ'd from ROTC and enlistment? Are the medical standards not the same?

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I’m dq from rotc. Not enlisting.
That’s another thing rotc hasn’t even pursued a waiver for me yet. So my first year of college likely won’t be paid for either way. I should be fine enlisting because the reason I’m dq is because dodmerb added dqs For issues ive never had.
I already have 25 credits of college with a solid gpa. And high act scores.
I feel enlisting will be the best option for me. I know myself.
My question was would I have difficulty getting into WP for reason of contracts or needing endorsements from my chain of command.

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I talked to the head of the field force in my area about the enlistment to West Point route. It's something that I'm actively considering as well if rejected. He told me that this option takes things out of your hands in a way, because if you are a very good soldier that merits your chain of command's recommendation to West Point, then they may be hesitant to fill out paperwork to send you out of their unit.

Kinnem brings up another good point in the timeline consideration. Given the lengthy admissions process, you may have a hard time building the necessary relationship with your chain of command to warrant their recommendation in time. However, this is still a viable route, and the field force member told me that every year there are unfilled slots for enlisted, perhaps due to a lack of qualified applicants (he didn't specify there). There is also an admissions officer on their website dedicated to enlisted admissions that you may want to consider reaching out to.

As an enlisted Soldier who recently received an appointment, I'll throw in my .02.

I would strongly recommend against enlisting solely for the purposes of applying to USMA. You will probably have a bad time. Enlist if you're willing to spend 3-4 years as a Soldier in the Army. They accept very few enlisted Soldiers to the academy every year, it's certainly possible but nowhere close to a guarantee.

Receiving endorsements from your chain of command obviously requires you to be a good Soldier, even to stand out. It also depends entirely on your command and what they think of not only you but of sending you to the academy. They may think highly of you but still disagree for some reason.

Yes there are plenty of other ways to pursue a commission during or after an enlistment. But don't do it unless you're okay with spending years as am enlisted Soldier, as that may be the result. Also consider the possibility that Dodmerb is still the process for enlisted applicants and may again deny you.

Personally I have been enlisted for over 3 years and loved it, West Point was an entirely unexpected opportunity which was brought to my attention and I went for it. Hope this helps.

If you were offered an appointment it supersedes your enlistment contract.

WheeledMech said:

As an enlisted Soldier who recently received an appointment, I'll throw in my .02.

I would strongly recommend against enlisting solely for the purposes of applying to USMA. You will probably have a bad time. Enlist if you're willing to spend 3-4 years as a Soldier in the Army. They accept very few enlisted Soldiers to the academy every year, it's certainly possible but nowhere close to a guarantee.

Receiving endorsements from your chain of command obviously requires you to be a good Soldier, even to stand out. It also depends entirely on your command and what they think of not only you but of sending you to the academy. They may think highly of you but still disagree for some reason.

Yes there are plenty of other ways to pursue a commission during or after an enlistment. But don't do it unless you're okay with spending years as am enlisted Soldier, as that may be the result. Also consider the possibility that Dodmerb is still the process for enlisted applicants and may again deny you.

Personally I have been enlisted for over 3 years and loved it, West Point was an entirely unexpected opportunity which was brought to my attention and I went for it. Hope this helps.

If you were offered an appointment it supersedes your enlistment contract.

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I would be okay with serving enlisted. Ultimately my goal is to be a soldier which is why I’m so heavily considering this option. Did you need an endorsement from your chain of command period or is that just for the nomination?

Not sure. I know you need one for the Regular Army nomination. I imagine not having one wouldn't look great though.

It's a shame ROTC hasn't pursued a waiver, have you spoken to them? Enlisting is a perfectly honorable way to serve, but it does sound like you're on the road to becoming an officer. Understand that enlisting could delay a commission for a number of years. Sounds like a decision that requires some serious thought.

I hear something different from your RC. If you were on top of a nomination slate, they would have already reviewed and made a determination. You are not competitive enough on your nomination slate to be considered so they are not requesting a waiver. Remember, that is not really a National contest. You only compete on your nomination slates. It is very difficult for a normal high school student to make it off the NWL. 25-30% of each incoming class has some education past high school. If you were denied a waiver, then that would be a different discussion.

I would suggest that enlisting is the last option as @WheeledMech states, you may be an enlisted soldier for a few years. You have a 4 year ROTC scholarship that you should be proud of. My advice would be to try ROTC and let the waiver process play out. If there is truly a mistake and you do not have the disqualifying conditions, ROTC will be able to work those things out as they have time. One of the ROOs would have to confirm, but I am pretty sure that if you have a four year scholarship, it will cover the entire first year even if the waiver doesn't come for a few months after the start of the academic year. The waiver authority is different for each nomination slate as well. If for some reason after your first year of college, you still want to enlist, then have at it and do not look back knowing your did everything you could to chase your dreams.

If your goal is to attend West Point, you will not be able to "hide" from whatever condition you have. Serving on Active Duty will not avoid the DoDMERB next time you apply. If you enlist, the earliest class you have a chance to apply to is 2024. You will have to go through the same medical review process in two years.

Also, applying from college as a re-applicant has fewer obstacles that may be outside of your control if you were enlisted.

I guess to answer your process question, enlisted soldiers compete for a service connected nomination and appointment. They work similar to MOC nominations but the mechanics are different. Your Army Chain of Command completes the endorsement which acts as the nomination. You then go through the same process competing for openings against others with the same nomination. Nominations or endorsements are unlimited, I think their are around 75 openings. The good news is that some of these do not get used each year as they seldom get that many qualified applicants.

SAnew22 said:

I'm sure I could find this if I searched but would someone please clarify for me....if applicants are DQ'd by DoDMERB, aren't they DQ'd from ROTC and enlistment? Are the medical standards not the same?

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Waivers are granted by the commissioning authority.... so WP could do 1 thing and ROTC another.

"I hear something different from your RC. If you were on top of a nomination slate, they would have already reviewed and made a determination. You are not competitive enough on your nomination slate to be considered so they are not requesting a waiver."

USMA 1994, do you feel this is true for all applicants still pending DQ waiver at this late date?

Futurecowboy99 said:

I’m dq from rotc. Not enlisting.
That’s another thing rotc hasn’t even pursued a waiver for me yet.

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The key word there is yet! ROTC doesn't work on the same schedule as the academy. They still have 4 - 5 months left to pursue a waiver. You won't need the waiver until you start the academic year at college, at the earliest! You actually won't have to have the waiver until it's time to contract if they are at least pursuing one. Many scholarship recipients haven't even done the DoDMERB physical yet. Patience. A waiver may come, and if it doesn't you can enlist then, if you're determined to do that. Patience. Patience.

While the consensus is that you should just go to college and do ROTC, I am not necessarily in favor of this. There is always this big push that you MUST go to college NOW. Sometimes, you just need a break from school for a few years and going enlisted is not a bad way to take the break. Yes, you can apply to USMA (my DD went this route as have many others, probably most notably General Gavin). If USMA does not work out from the enlisted ranks and you wish to be an officer there are other paths- green to gold, ROTC and OCS.
As for chain of command not supporting this, I guess it could happen but I have never heard of this happening, though I have heard of some NCO's dumping all the details on soldiers who apply. The Army actually has a program now where they have a team that goes to different bases and helps soldiers knock out the application in one day. I've even heard of soldiers with GT scores above a certain level being told that there place of duty that day is with the selection team.
Good luck to you no matter what you decide. Listen to advice, but lead your life for you not others.

UHBlackhawk said:

While the consensus is that you should just go to college and do ROTC, I am not necessarily in favor of this. There is always this big push that you MUST go to college NOW. Sometimes, you just need a break from school for a few years and going enlisted is not a bad way to take the break. Yes, you can apply to USMA (my DD went this route as have many others, probably most notably General Gavin). If USMA does not work out from the enlisted ranks and you wish to be an officer there are other paths- green to gold, ROTC and OCS.
As for chain of command not supporting this, I guess it could happen but I have never heard of this happening, though I have heard of some NCO's dumping all the details on soldiers who apply. The Army actually has a program now where they have a team that goes to different bases and helps soldiers knock out the application in one day. I've even heard of soldiers with GT scores above a certain level being told that there place of duty that day is with the selection team.

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How long did your DD serve enlisted?

Futurecowboy99 said:

How long did your DD serve enlisted?

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She actually went to college for one semester on a D1 athletic scholarship/ROTC scholarship, but dropped out after one semester to enlist. Started basic training January. Realized her age would be an issue if she needed to attend MAPS, so applied after airborne school that summer when she got to her unit. Found out while deployed in Iraq, sent back early for R-Day. So 1.5 years. Her COC was very supportive. Understand that results will vary. Many try but don't make it.

I am going to speak as a dad and I am going to be blunt. I realize that college isnt for everyone or that college doesnt have to done today but can wait a couple years, but honestly most people would kill for a 4 year Rotc scholarship. AS others have said, it harder to get that than to get into the academy. To blow it on a chance that you will get to the academy by way of enlistment seems crazy to me. UHBlackhawk daughter did get in that way, but she at least did one semester one school and realized it wasnt for her. It is your life and you get to choose how to live it and accomplish your goals, but to me you choose the smart way of doing it. It isnt like going through ROTC to get into an academy is any less likely than doing it by enlisting.

Humey said:

I am going to speak as a dad and I am going to be blunt. I realize that college isnt for everyone or that college doesnt have to done today but can wait a couple years, but honestly most people would kill for a 4 year Rotc scholarship. AS others have said, it harder to get that than to get into the academy. To blow it on a chance that you will get to the academy by way of enlistment seems crazy to me. UHBlackhawk daughter did get in that way, but she at least did one semester one school and realized it wasnt for her. It is your life and you get to choose how to live it and accomplish your goals, but to me you choose the smart way of doing it. It isnt like going through ROTC to get into an academy is any less likely than doing it by enlisting.

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You imply that any way other than yours is not a smart way of doing things and this is not the case.
I was there with my DD. We anguished when she informed us she was writing her congressman to say "Thanks but no thanks" on the USMA nomination, walking away from the beginning of a promising D1 sports career, turning down her ROTC scholarship to enlist. I would hardly call my DS who chose to enlist rather than applying to normal universities and ROTC as a backup"stupid" for doing so.
There are many paths in life to success. Some are easier than others, some make more sense than others. But to say people aren't smart for choosing your path is really degrading to some fantastic individuals.

I don't want this very emotional and important thread to become a negatively tinged debate over which path is right.

For some, the road less traveled, arduous that it may be, will help hone the individual's skills to make for a better officer. For others, it may lead to discouragement and a long term obligation that is not a good fit.

The right answer is highly personal, and the anecdotes presented here offer insight so that a candidate can make a better informed decision.

Let's share and discuss in a constructive manner and allow others to make the best decision possible.