USCGA Class of 2024 Appointment Thread

CGFAM said:
A Real life "Whole Person" perspective:

On this forum, there is a lot of whole person vs. test score perspectives thrown around. I wanted to offer a real life example of how important the "Whole Person" perspective can be. I volunteer to teach communication skills at an inner city public school. The school is known for its gang problems, violence, and hardened kids. My particular group of kids is chosen by the district as those at greatest risk of not graduating. My job is to arm them with some communication skills so that they will be employable one day. The greatest hope we, the volunteers and teachers, have for this group is that they graduate. In a few cases, we dream about the kids being able to go to the local community college. For those of us who help them, that is top of the dream. With all that they have to endure on a daily (worrying about food, clothes, housing, parents getting arrested, etc.), the thought of college is almost too much to hope for. Every time I am there, our class is interrupted by drug searches or some type of fight/arrest, etc. I always find myself thinking, "How are these kids ever supposed to make it in life? We can't even get through ONE class. " Most are in foster care, or homeless, or some crazy situation. Sometimes, it seems impossible that any one of them will be able get out of the mess they were born into.

Four years ago, when I was doing freshman introductions, this scrawny little 9th grader stood up and said his goal was to go the Air Force Academy so that he could "fly jets". While I was taken aback by his comment, so very different from all of the other young folks in the room who said they wanted to play Pro Sports or "be famous", my first thought was sadness. Despite their dreams, life always seems to reach in and suck these kids out from under us. The violence, the drugs, the poverty. It is the enemy of every kid who walks into my room as a 9th grader. I had no reason to believe that kid would be different.

Fast Forward. While he has been with me, he has witnessed his best friend get shot, other friends have gone to jail or dropped out, his own father was arrested for beating up his mother. He has endured things that most of us would never encounter ONCE in a lifetime, let alone multiple times in a short span. And, yet, he stayed the course. All on his own, he did the best he could with what he had to work with. He has NO access to computers, ACT/SAT test prep, AP's or College Credit. He never heard of an Admissions Partner (or the Air Force version) or Summer Seminars. He had no idea the competition for slots, or what a nomination was. He was too busy trying to survive and thrive. He never had a tutor or a academic mentor. He ate lunch in a teachers room every day so that he could focus on his homework and not get caught up in nonsense that plays out EVERY DAY in the hallways. He plays three sports to keep himself busy. He is captain of each one. He started two clubs to help kids stay out of trouble. He began a movement against gun violence that has now grown into other schools. He has been awarded multiple community and state awards for his perseverance, vision and leadership - all this at only 17. He has had ZERO help from Adults. Though it was not my place to get involved with the kids personal lives, I finally intervened. I was in the middle of helping my own kid apply to a SA (one year older than he is) and I just couldn't sit by and not help him. I knew that he didn't understand the process at all and if he didn't meet some deadlines, he would never even have a chance to try.

I arranged for him to meet with an Academy graduate that I knew. The Air Force officer was blown away. He even sent me a text thanking me for the introduction and promised to get the young man connected to those who could help him. Just a few weeks ago, that officer arranged for him to speak at an Academy event. They sent me a video of the speech. It was magnificent. I saw people in the audience literally wiping tears away. That kid, who had zero help up to that point in his life, no guidance for years and was armed with nothing more than a dream after watching a movie as a kid - brought the ENTIRE audience of Academy Graduates and Air Force Officers to their feet for a standing ovation.

And, yet, ya'll, He does NOT have a great ACT or SAT. It's just average. What he does have, though? An undeniable track record of unshakable focus, leadership, grit. Who would NOT want him on their side if the **** hits the fan? Who would NOT want that kid, who could stay focused even as his best friend lay dying after being shot, to be with them in time of chaos? He has been at battle his entire life. And, yet, he thrives. He is exactly what our Military needs. So, next year when the admissions board will have to chose between he and another candidate who will probably have better scores but less real life proven "grit"? They would be foolish not to choose him - even if for Prep. Is he "better" than the other kid? Not necessarily. They are different. He brings something totally different to the table. And, wouldn't it be a shame if an ACT score is what kept him out? He will be a GREAT Air Force Officer and, quite frankly, they will be lucky to have him. ANY College would have been lucky to have him. I tried to talk him into the CGA - LOL - but his heart stayed true to his dream.

At the end of the day - stories like these are more common than most people realize. We, on these forums, have no idea what someone's entire story is. The "Whole Person" perspective is critical. The "life" playing field is not always even and if we only had one measuring stick of success, our Military would be missing out on some incredible potential Officers and leaders of our amazing enlisted ranks - like that amazing young man.

Just my two cents - whatever that is worth. :)
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Thank you for sharing this... promise me you’ll share this kids outcome, I know I’m cheering for him from afar!!!
 
franknd said:
Two different things there. I don't disagree that those characteristics are vital in making an officer. I'm very dubious, however, that they can be reliably assessed in a college application process. Rather, they are developed and revealed over a long period of time. Places like the academies are meant to develop them. But the idea that they can be reliably measured, as if they were a finished product, at 17 or 18 strikes me as a stretch.
I've been in and around government too long to not question "the process." It can always be improved; and just because it's "always been done that way" is no reason to keep doing so.
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Well that's why the "interview", which has become mandatory, (thus the process) is so important. I think they have improved in making that mandatory. My son had his interview with a retired USCG CDR, who was an Academy graduate. My son was nervous about finding the meeting place, so I drove him. When I picked him up after almost 2 hours, he was shot. He said that it was the hardest interview/conversation he had ever had. He said the officer (female), asked him some really touch questions about diversity, inclusion, his leadership experiences, his HS involvements, his experience at AIM, and had him articulate to her his STRONG DESIRE to attend the Academy. She gave him a lot of "what would you do" scenarios applicable to a military officer and constantly challenged him on his answers. Honestly, he thought he did badly. Apparently this officer thought he didn't.

He said that she barely acknowledged his SAT scores and his grades (which are very good).

The fact is, statistics are really all we can see as parents. Obviously, we can't read the recommendations, nor sit in these interviews. Maybe the people who are making these admissions decisions have a better view of our kid's character and potential for development than we do as parents.
 
sanman said:
And that is exactly why USCGA asks that references be supplied so that they get a view of the character of individual from someone who has known them over a longer period of time. Also why interviews are often requested for candidates. I can't think of a more retrograde step than to change the admission process to the one you suggested.
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What of the kid who moves every 3 years? Who, aside from family, has known him over a lengthy period of time? And, again, the ability of the letter writer is much more important than you acknowledge. Indeed, the military itself mitigates the importance of words in performance reviews by compiling senior-rater profiles, which letters of recommendation don't lend themselves to.
My point simply is that transparency and reliability, IMHO, ought to be paramount in a procedure like this. They would make fora such as this very one we are going back and forth on far less necessary, and the process far more predictable. As I read the comments of the CGA grad whose comments spurred my own, that is really what he's looking for, and I don't think it's an unreasonable ask. (For the reasons I gave, I also don't think he was necessarily asking the right question, but that's a separate issue.)
Finally, let me state plainly that I have no doubt that all the young men and women who have been accepted so far are very deserving and more than capable. I applaud all of them. But I think the process by which 1-290 (or whatever the final number will be) are chosen could be simplified, improved, and made much more transparent than it currently is without doing any harm to the resulting product.
 
TexasAggie204 said:
Well that's why the "interview", which has become mandatory, (thus the process) is so important. I think they have improved in making that mandatory. My son had his interview with a retired USCG CDR, who was an Academy graduate. My son was nervous about finding the meeting place, so I drove him. When I picked him up after almost 2 hours, he was shot. He said that it was the hardest interview/conversation he had ever had. He said the officer (female), asked him some really touch questions about diversity, inclusion, his leadership experiences, his HS involvements, his experience at AIM, and had him articulate to her his STRONG DESIRE to attend the Academy. She gave him a lot of "what would you do" scenarios applicable to a military officer and constantly challenged him on his answers. Honestly, he thought he did badly. Apparently this officer thought he didn't.

He said that she barely acknowledged his SAT scores and his grades (which are very good).

The fact is, statistics are really all we can see as parents. Obviously, we can't read the recommendations, nor sit in these interviews. Maybe the people who are making these admissions decisions have a better view of our kid's character and potential for development than we do as parents.
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I'm not aware that the interview is now mandatory. Nothing my son has received or read states as much. It sounds like your son had a good interviewer.
You mentioned AIM, and that triggers another thought. If they wanted to make that necessary for admission, I could see utility in that. But they don't, and, as a result, we read anecdotes about kids dropping out of it who never had any interest in attending in the first place. What kind of selection process is that?
Anyway, congratulations again to your son.
 
franknd said:
What of the kid who moves every 3 years? Who, aside from family, has known him over a lengthy period of time? And, again, the ability of the letter writer is much more important than you acknowledge.
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This is 100% true. I have moved 10 times, being at 3 different high schools in 3 different states in the past 3 years and had a tough time choosing teachers to write recommendations. Though I knew all of my teachers could vouch for my character and work ethic, none of them had known me for very long. This is definitely where the interview worked in my favor since I could describe those types of things.
 
franknd said:
What of the kid who moves every 3 years?
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I consider 3 years to be a lengthy period of time. If a kid hasn’t got a relationship with a teacher or coach at school after 3 years then they have bigger issues to deal with than getting accepted to an academy.
 
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sanman said:
I consider 3 years to be a lengthy period of time. If a kid hasn’t got a relationship with a teacher or coach at school after 3 years then they have bigger issues to deal with than getting accepted to an academy.
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True. Not one individual (counselor, teacher, coach, etc.), who wrote any recommendation for my son has known him more than 3 years. Factually, the required Math, Science, and English teachers only knew him for 1 year (his HS Junior year).
 
1) TexasAggie204 / DS / 12/10/2019 / PA / Mechanical Engineering / Undecided
2) SwimMom24 / DD / 12/10/2019/ LOA/ Cyber Systems/ WA / Awaiting DODMERB waiver
3) HCopter / DD / 12/10/2019 (call from coach) / No LOA / TX / Cyber Systems / Undecided
4) ProudMom7/ DD / 12/10/2019 / MES / Awaiting DODMERB waiver
5) WhoWouldTakeThisUsername / Self / 12/11/2019 (called me originally on 12/10) / No LOA / OH / Undecided
6) klcm54a / DS / 12/11/19 (called originally on 12/10) / No LOA / AK / Undecided
7) CMS / DS / 12/11/19 / Mechanical Engineering / NJ / Undecided
8) ChaseMe2 / DD / 12/10/2019 / FL / Undecided
9) mamabear2023/ DS / 12/11/2018 / MD/ Undecided
10) torresn199/ Self / 12/13/2019 / Overseas / Government / Undecided
11) cave9269 /DS/ 12/13/2019 / NO LOA / PA / Government / ACCEPTED
12) AnotherSwimMom / DS / 12/13/2019 / No LOA / VA / Cyber Systems / Undecided
13) AngryDoge / Self / 12/13/2019 / Undecided
14) Montanaparent / DS / 12/15/19 (phone call) / MT / Naval Architecture / Undecided
15) Hurstunited21 / Self / 12/16/19 / No LOA / TX / Naval Architecture / Undecided
16) Adopt3/DS/12/16/19/no LOA/LA/Operations Research/Undecided
17) ALmom2024/DS/12/16/19/noLOA/AL/Civil Engineering/Accepted
18) RowingMom/DS/12-16-19/no LOA/FL/Naval Arch & Marine Engr / Undecided
19)Dr.D.OneProudMom/DD/12-14-19 (phone call)/MD/Cyber Systems/ Will ACCEPT
20) PilotTim89 / DD / 12/10/19 / LOA / IN / Mechanical Engineering / Undecided
21) Bubbles/ DD/ 12/13/19/ No LOA/ CO/ MES/ Will Accept
22) ejrcandidate721 / Self / 12/13/19 (phone call) / No LOA / NY / MES / Awaiting DODMERB waiver
23) tycarpen / DS / 12/15/19 (phone call) / No LOA / CA / Cyber Systems / Undecided
24) Dadx4 / DD / 12/14/19 (phone call) / No LOA / VA / MES / Awaiting Formal Notification
25) CarterJames77 / Self / 12/20/19 (phone call) / No LOA / NY / Mechanical Engineering / Awaiting DODMERB waiver
26) 24gobears/DD/ 12/8/19 (phone call)/ No LOA/ CA / Electrical Engineering/ Awaiting formal notification
27) scootertu / DS / 12/15/19 (phone call from track coach) / CA / Naval Architecture / Awaiting DODMERB waiver
28) TigerMoM/DD / 12/20/19 (phone call from AO) / NJ / Marine & Environmental Science / Undecided (waiting for USAFA result)
29) AllSmiles / DS / 12/20/2019 / Bear's Den / NoLOA / PA / Civil Engineering / Conditional DODMERB
30) 2024Fighter / DS /12/20/2019 / Bear's Den / No LOA / OK / Cyber Systems / Undecided - Awaiting DODMERB Review
31) applicant/ self/ 12/20/2019/ Bear’s Den/ No LOA/ KY/ Mechanical Engineering/ Awaiting DODMERB
32) swimmom816 / DD / 12/13/2019 / phone call / No LOA / OH / Naval Architecture / Conditional needing waiver
33) candidate_dad / DD / 12/20/2019 / phone call from coach / NY / Mechanical Engineering / Awaiting medical waiver / Undecided
34) WaterPolo_Dad / DS / 12/17/2019 / text from partner / PA / Operations Research / Undecided (but highly likely)
35) RockyImminence / Self / 12/10/19 / Phone Call / AZ / Mechanical Engineering / Undecided
 
TexasAggie204 said:
Well that's why the "interview", which has become mandatory, (thus the process) is so important. I think they have improved in making that mandatory. My son had his interview with a retired USCG CDR, who was an Academy graduate. My son was nervous about finding the meeting place, so I drove him. When I picked him up after almost 2 hours, he was shot. He said that it was the hardest interview/conversation he had ever had. He said the officer (female), asked him some really touch questions about diversity, inclusion, his leadership experiences, his HS involvements, his experience at AIM, and had him articulate to her his STRONG DESIRE to attend the Academy. She gave him a lot of "what would you do" scenarios applicable to a military officer and constantly challenged him on his answers. Honestly, he thought he did badly. Apparently this officer thought he didn't.

He said that she barely acknowledged his SAT scores and his grades (which are very good).

The fact is, statistics are really all we can see as parents. Obviously, we can't read the recommendations, nor sit in these interviews. Maybe the people who are making these admissions decisions have a better view of our kid's character and potential for development than we do as parents.
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Here’s the problem: my DS didn’t get an interview. Just a rejection letter.
 
sanman said:
I consider 3 years to be a lengthy period of time. If a kid hasn’t got a relationship with a teacher or coach at school after 3 years then they have bigger issues to deal with than getting accepted to an academy.
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You are way out of line here. I went to four high schools. My father was active duty. The last two years were at the same school. My sophomor year was in a gigantic [4k+ kids in grades 10-12) high school in south miami. I was a number there. The teachers didn’t know me. If I had needed one of them to write a letter, I would have been screwed. I went to the Academy and graduated.
 
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franknd said:
I read all of your posts in this thread. My son was deferred. The problem with comparing stats to a prior year's enrolled cohort is that without knowing the makeup of those who were denied, it's impossible to really know how one stacks up in the entire pool and, thus, the relative "fairness" of not being accepted. And they will never release that information. I suspect it falls under the adage that it's best not to see the sausage being made (or so it is believed).
Myself, I'd prefer a completely transparent system based almost exclusively on SAT/ACT, achievement tests in predetermined subjects (as an objective proxy for academic achievement), and a centrally-administered PFE. But that battle, if there ever was one, was lost long ago.
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I get the bulletin every month. These stats are pretty constant year over year.

As a public institution, CGA doesn’t really have the luxury of not being transparent. My wife teaches fourth grade, and she’s been taught that every email is subject to subpoena. Certainly that would apply here, in addition to FOI requests.

We have all read about the Harvard admissions scandal, and that’s a private institution. I think that the Superintendent or an Admissions officer would have a hard time standing in front of a judge under oath and making the claim that the 2X captain of his football team lacks leadership skills, or that his 1400 SAT demonstrates a lack of intellectual horsepower, or that graduating #3 in his class demonstrates a lack of the work ethic required to be successful at CGA.

Especially when their published data says that 75% of the class won’t meet that threshold.

So why the rejection?

Something is very broken here and has been for a few years now.
 
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AppDad said:
So why the rejection?

Something is very broken here and has been for a few years now.
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I suggest you create your own thread if you want to continue this. This thread is for recognition of those who have been appointed.
I am sympathetic to those who have not been successful. Many cadets have to apply multiple times before getting admission.

However your complaints are detracting from the achievements of people who have got appointments. As this is an appointment thread I think you should really take this discussion to its own thread.
 
AppDad said:
I get the bulletin every month. These stats are pretty constant year over year.

As a public institution, CGA doesn’t really have the luxury of not being transparent. My wife teaches fourth grade, and she’s been taught that every email is subject to subpoena. Certainly that would apply here, in addition to FOI requests.

We have all read about the Harvard admissions scandal, and that’s a private institution. I think that the Superintendent or an Admissions officer would have a hard time standing in front of a judge under oath and making the claim that the 2X captain of his football team lacks leadership skills, or that his 1400 SAT demonstrates a lack of intellectual horsepower, or that graduating #3 in his class demonstrates a lack of the work ethic required to be successful at CGA.

Especially when their published data says that 75% of the class won’t meet that threshold.

So why the rejection?

Something is very broken here and has been for a few years now.
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Your son isn't applying for every open slot in the next class - he can only apply for those slots earmarked for his race and gender. You said before that his SAT was a 1350, not a 1400. You said he's a white male, not a recruited athlete. He is applying for what is probably the most competitive slot at CGA (only 54-60 slots, including last year's white male non athlete CGAS kids) and amongst that group he is likely entirely average. Since his numbers would appear to make him too qualified for CGAS, the number of slots he is actually eligible for is less than the 54-60, but since demographics of CGAS arent available we don't know how many less.

Females are high 30's to 40ish% and rising - I am sure they would like to get it to 50%. Minorities are about 35% and stable across the last few admission cycles, but you could see them rise if there are sufficient qualified applicants. These numbers demonstrate the difficulty of obtaining an appointment to CGA. Including CGAS, of the 280 who accept appointments, approximately 140 are athletic recruits, so if you aren't an athletic recruit, you are already down to 140 available slots, which includes CGAS spots. Based on your son's numbers, he is overqualified for CGAS. For the major demographic groups the available slots would be as follows:

36 white female,
20 minority female,
54 white male,
30 minority male

My simple math assumes that the percentages of female and minority appointments for recruited athletes and those coming in from CGAS is the same as it is within the general appointment pool. I have no idea whether that is actually the case, but it probably doesn't vary much. My math also assumes that appointments from CGAS are also 50% athletic recruits. I would guess the number is actually higher, but that's just a guess. If CGAS is 75% recruited athletes, and the proportion of females and minorities remains the same, available slots to non athletes would be approximately

40 white female,
22 minority female,
60 white male,
33 minority male.

Presumptions about the percentage of athletes in CGAS and gender and minority proportions within the CGAS and athlete pools aside, the data shows that each applicant is competing for only a handful of slots, as the individual candidate simply isn't eligible for a demographic they don't belong to.

I should also note that these numbers are based on the 280 accepted appointments. There are close to 400 offered appointments, including CGAS. We know that about 310 are offered a full appointment, and 220 accept, along with another 60 coming in after completing the CGAS program. Unfortunately, we don't know anything about the demographics of those who were offered an appointment, but declined. We also don't know what percentage of them were recruited athletes. Further extrapolating numbers with so much guesswork could be done, but isn't very helpful.
 
rjb said:
DS (2018 grad) said the change to the mandatory interview was an important step in bettering the selection process.
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Not everyone was required an interview. My son was not. He has been deferred. How is this mandatory? We were told at cadet for a day that it is not. Only if they think they have missed something or to be sure.
 
Korab said:
Your son isn't applying for every open slot in the next class - he can only apply for those slots earmarked for his race and gender. You said before that his SAT was a 1350, not a 1400. You said he's a white male, not a recruited athlete. He is applying for what is probably the most competitive slot at CGA (only 54-60 slots, including last year's white male non athlete CGAS kids) and amongst that group he is likely entirely average. Since his numbers would appear to make him too qualified for CGAS, the number of slots he is actually eligible for is less than the 54-60, but since demographics of CGAS arent available we don't know how many less.

Females are high 30's to 40ish% and rising - I am sure they would like to get it to 50%. Minorities are about 35% and stable across the last few admission cycles, but you could see them rise if there are sufficient qualified applicants. These numbers demonstrate the difficulty of obtaining an appointment to CGA. Including CGAS, of the 280 who accept appointments, approximately 140 are athletic recruits, so if you aren't an athletic recruit, you are already down to 140 available slots, which includes CGAS spots. Based on your son's numbers, he is overqualified for CGAS. For the major demographic groups the available slots would be as follows:

36 white female,
20 minority female,
54 white male,
30 minority male

My simple math assumes that the percentages of female and minority appointments for recruited athletes and those coming in from CGAS is the same as it is within the general appointment pool. I have no idea whether that is actually the case, but it probably doesn't vary much. My math also assumes that appointments from CGAS are also 50% athletic recruits. I would guess the number is actually higher, but that's just a guess. If CGAS is 75% recruited athletes, and the proportion of females and minorities remains the same, available slots to non athletes would be approximately

40 white female,
22 minority female,
60 white male,
33 minority male.

Presumptions about the percentage of athletes in CGAS and gender and minority proportions within the CGAS and athlete pools aside, the data shows that each applicant is competing for only a handful of slots, as the individual candidate simply isn't eligible for a demographic they don't belong to.

I should also note that these numbers are based on the 280 accepted appointments. There are close to 400 offered appointments, including CGAS. We know that about 310 are offered a full appointment, and 220 accept, along with another 60 coming in after completing the CGAS program. Unfortunately, we don't know anything about the demographics of those who were offered an appointment, but declined. We also don't know what percentage of them were recruited athletes. Further extrapolating numbers with so much guesswork could be done, but isn't very helpful.
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sobering numbers......wow
 
My DS was deferred. We have accepted decision and he contacted his AO to see where he can improve his candidate profile. He decided to continue the process and continue to chase his dream.

Enough with number crunching and negative comments on this thread. Congratulations to appointees and their families!
 
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