Federalist Article by Former Cadet

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prospective2019 said:
None, but she and several others had permanent health effects from it that could impact their ability to commission.

Not to mention the time training and in class lost to quarantines when hundreds of cadets got sick.
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There is a bioterrorism weapon that was released from Wuhan. There are serious consequences.

There are also side effects of the vaccines that could have serious side effects.

I would be interested to know who isn’t able to commission from those side effects - both covid and vaccine.

Could is a funny prediction. Science involves questions.
 
jebdad said:
Why was her argument about natural immunity flawed?
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As I said in the rest of the paragraph, Macdonald had COVID early on and before the new strains arrived at West Point, of which she would have had no immunity to. Natural immunity provides half the protection of the vaccine, from an August CDC study, and its protection diminishes fairly quickly. Dozens of cadets were re-infected with COVID after having it once. But now that the vast majority of the Corps is vaccinated, we haven't had a case since this summer.
 
A1Janitor said:
Could is a funny prediction. Science involves questions.
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In her case, she left before we'd ever find out. That is what was meant by that. I will not talk about her medical conditions on the internet out of respect for her, but she never fully recovered from the virus.

The cadet that had an adverse reaction the vaccine was found to have had a pre-existing heart condition.

Again, I respect her choice. But her choice had consequences, as all do. And I don't believe attacking the Academy with Sean Hannity is necessarily the best solution to this issue.
 
prospective2019 said:
In her case, she left before we'd ever find out. That is what was meant by that. I will not talk about her medical conditions on the internet out of respect for her, but she never fully recovered from the virus.

The cadet that had an adverse reaction the vaccine was found to have had a pre-existing heart condition.

Again, I respect her choice. But her choice had consequences, as all do. And I don't believe attacking the Academy with Sean Hannity is necessarily the best solution to this issue.
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What about suing. That will be interesting…she said at the end of the video that she plans to sue. West Point? DOD? Not sure who.
 
As I said in the rest of the paragraph, Macdonald had COVID early on and before the new strains arrived at West Point, of which she would have had no immunity to. Natural immunity provides half the protection of the vaccine, from an August CDC study, and its protection diminishes fairly quickly. Dozens of cadets were re-infected with COVID after having it once. But now that the vast majority of the Corps is vaccinated, we haven't had a case since this summer.

Concur with you.

The Corps is 98% vaccinated. That’s an amazing number and a huge reason why cases are down and no cadets have died.

No reports of cadets not meeting accessions standards from side effects of the vaccine.
 
justdoit19 said:
What about suing. That will be interesting…she said at the end of the video that she plans to sue. West Point? DOD? Not sure who.
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Not sure the basis for suing.

There was a lawful order given. She did the right thing by getting out of a situation (ie remain a cadet) where she is obligated to obey lawful orders.

We all have choices in life. She made a choice. Her principles cause her to make the decision she did. She needs to move on.
 
prospective2019 said:
As I said in the rest of the paragraph, Macdonald had COVID early on and before the new strains arrived at West Point, of which she would have had no immunity to. Natural immunity provides half the protection of the vaccine, from an August CDC study, and its protection diminishes fairly quickly. Dozens of cadets were re-infected with COVID after having it once. But now that the vast majority of the Corps is vaccinated, we haven't had a case since this summer.
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The CDC has proven to be the biggest source of misinformation. They continue to disperse inaccurate or outdated information.

I am sure you are aware of a very large study done in Israel and released in August that said:

Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.

You can see info on whole study here:

"Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections | medRxiv" https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

Just an n=1 study from me 🙂, I personally had covid in January. Had my antibodies tested last week which were at a level as high as those of a person who has been injected with two doses of vaccine.
 
A1Janitor said:
There is a bioterrorism weapon that was released from Wuhan. There are serious consequences.

There are also side effects of the vaccines that could have serious side effects.

I would be interested to know who isn’t able to commission from those side effects - both covid and vaccine.

Could is a funny prediction. Science involves questions.
Click to expand...

To answer the “could” on being a funny prediction, I know people personally who are on a permanent flight waiver from lasting side effects from having COVID last year. If they had been a cadet and having to meet the physical standards to commission into my chosen branch, it wouldn’t have been entertained. Because the Army has spent a couple million dollars of training folks in my community in at this point in our careers, they were more willing to give us time to work it out and see if they would qualify for a waiver. Economically it doesn’t make sense to do that with a cadet that isn’t a proven product yet so I 100% believe it’s believable that there would be cadets who would be medically boarded out prior to commissioning, depending on their long term health impacts. It happens for other reasons to a handful of cadets every year all the time
 
If someone can’t commission because of long term side effects, that is fine. To project that on all people who got covid isn’t necessarily science.

Could we find vaccinated people down the road unable to commission because of long term effects of the vaccine? Blood clots and heart problems, for instance.

And would the vaccine make someone with long term covid side effects reverse that problem?
 
Her plan (like others) of having natural immunity AFTER she had CV-19 is great. Right up until the time you are one of the unfortunate people that gets horrifically sick, dies or has long term, debilitating effects from the initial infection.

I personally know many people that fell into the category of not wanting to be vaccinated, they contracted CV-19 and then had regret for the decision.

Why? Long-term effects, ICU stays, trach tubes and death.

It is a virtual lock that your odds of having those types of reactions to a CV-19 infection after a 1st or 2nd dose of the vaccines are far lower than had you not received a vaccine.
 
FiveByFive said:
Her plan (like others) of having natural immunity AFTER she had CV-19 is great. Right up until the time you are one of the unfortunate people that gets horrifically sick, dies or has long term, debilitating effects from the initial infection.

I personally know many people that fell into the category of not wanting to be vaccinated, they contracted CV-19 and then had regret for the decision.

Why? Long-term effects, ICU stays, trach tubes and death.

It is a virtual lock that your odds of having those types of reactions to a CV-19 infection after a 1st or 2nd dose of the vaccines are far lower than had you not received a vaccine.
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I don't think she or anyone is inferring a person should get covid instead of the vaccine. Just pointing out the inconsistency in the science of how post covid people are treated. Large studies have proven natural immunity is stronger and longer lasting than the vaccine and how despite having had a documented covid case, they were treated as lepers. When, in reality, those with prior covid should have been complaining about the weaker immunity of the vaccinated only.
 
A1Janitor said:
I would be interested to see the deaths under 30 from covid compared to the total.

And even further - ones in top physical shape.
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Here are the numbers, as of November 3, 2021:

www.statista.com

COVID-19 deaths by age U.S. 2023 | Statista

Between the beginning of January 2020 and June 14, 2023, of the 1,134,641 deaths caused by COVID-19 in the United States, around 307,169 had occurred among those aged 85 years and older.
www.statista.com www.statista.com

Out of 748,164 COVID-19 deaths in the USA to-date, 4,864 have been under 30 years old. 52% of deaths have been 75 years or older.
 
jebdad said:
I don't think she or anyone is inferring a person should get covid instead of the vaccine. Just pointing out the inconsistency in the science of how post covid people are treated. Large studies have proven natural immunity is stronger and longer lasting than the vaccine and how despite having had a documented covid case, they were treated as lepers. When, in reality, those with prior covid should have been complaining about the weaker immunity of the vaccinated only.
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This article disagrees with your assertion:

www.medicalnewstoday.com

COVID-19 vaccines more protective than ‘natural’ immunity

A new study concludes that a COVID-19 mRNA vaccine is around five times more effective at preventing hospitalization than a previous SARS-CoV-2 infection.
www.medicalnewstoday.com www.medicalnewstoday.com

According to the study authors, “These findings suggest that among hospitalized adults with COVID-19-like illness whose previous infection or vaccination occurred 90–179 days earlier, vaccine-induced immunity was more protective than infection-induced immunity against laboratory-confirmed COVID-19.”

Dr. William Schaffner, a professor of medicine in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine in Nashville, TN, commented on the study during an interview with Medical News Today.

He said: “For a long time, we’ve known that people [who have the infection], if they are subsequently vaccinated, will have much higher levels of antibodies than people who [have the infection] but are not vaccinated. Natural infection plus vaccination is better than natural infection alone.”

The study authors refer to a recent Israeli study that reported conflicting results. The Israeli study found that “natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease, and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 [than] the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity.”
 
A recent study came out about natural immunity versus vaccinated immunity relating to the nucleocapsid of the virus. The nucleocapsid is what your t-cells and antibodies recognize and attack. It is the outer "shell" of the virus. The vaccine is designed to attack the spike protein, only 1 part of the virus. This is why natural immunity is stronger than vaccinated immunity against all variants. Your body recognizes the whole virus and its "offspring", "siblings" and "cousins", the vaccinated immunity does not.

brownstone.org

A Review and Autopsy of Two COVID Immunity Studies ⋆ Brownstone Institute

I have never before seen such a large discrepancy between immunity studies that are supposed to answer the same question.
brownstone.org brownstone.org

The linked article speaks directly to the two studies you are referencing day-tripper. The author is a Harvard professor that specializes in this very topic. His conclusion is the the Israeli study is much more robust than what the CDC put forth.
 
Day-Tripper said:
This article disagrees with your assertion:

www.medicalnewstoday.com

COVID-19 vaccines more protective than ‘natural’ immunity

A new study concludes that a COVID-19 mRNA vaccine is around five times more effective at preventing hospitalization than a previous SARS-CoV-2 infection.
www.medicalnewstoday.com www.medicalnewstoday.com

According to the study authors, “These findings suggest that among hospitalized adults with COVID-19-like illness whose previous infection or vaccination occurred 90–179 days earlier, vaccine-induced immunity was more protective than infection-induced immunity against laboratory-confirmed COVID-19.”

Dr. William Schaffner, a professor of medicine in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine in Nashville, TN, commented on the study during an interview with Medical News Today.

He said: “For a long time, we’ve known that people [who have the infection], if they are subsequently vaccinated, will have much higher levels of antibodies than people who [have the infection] but are not vaccinated. Natural infection plus vaccination is better than natural infection alone.”

The study authors refer to a recent Israeli study that reported conflicting results. The Israeli study found that “natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease, and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 [than] the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity.”
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"among hospitalized adults with COVID-19 like illness" is an important qualifier to note when referencing that study.

Are statistics available for cadet hospitalizations due to COVID-19 at USMA?

It seems very likely that DODMERB screening, age, and the general health condition of cadets play a huge role in limiting complications from COVID-19 within the corps.
 
justdoit19 said:
Do not forget that this was a DOD mandate. Not a West Point one.
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There is a lot involved in that statement to unpack. The academies are a microcosm of the military, they are a particular aspect of the military where ideas, policies and training can be examined.

The entire military is experiencing what these cadets are talking about.

Sen. Johnson had Lt. Col. Theresa Long at his vaccine roundtable public testimony earlier this week.
 
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