NASS vs SLE : USNA vs USMA?

J

Just Bee-cause

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Hello,
DS wants to be a Marine & attended NASS #1, but was unable to attend SLE due to scheduling. He was really hoping to get a taste of academy life - plebe summer, in particular. Instead, he found it very watered-down. Didn't get to do much on the ecourse, no boat carrying, no difficult PT/drills, no rifles.... nothing like the ads. Just came home with pink eye from that NASTY water. They were very concerned about the participants feeling "uncomfortable". Now the pictures of SLE are coming out & it appears much more like what's expected.
Is this difference indicative of life at both academies? For those with hopefuls that attended both, how did they compare? Which was preferred?
 
Probably need to give it another week before any of the current candidates can reply. DS did NASS 1 last week and is at SLE 2 right now. But DS did was also disappointed not being able to do many of the events the last day. I think someone got hurt, so some events were abbreviated. Many of DS's academic questions were answered, so that was a plus. Sorry about the pink eye!
 
No one can truly experience Plebe Summer until you are in it. There's no summer camp that will put you in that environment. He wants to see what life is like as a plebe? Go attend a Candidate Visit Weekend (CVW). Have him talk to the plebes and see what their experiences were.
 
ParachutePanda said:
No one can truly experience Plebe Summer until you are in it. There's no summer camp that will put you in that environment. He wants to see what life is like as a plebe? Go attend a Candidate Visit Weekend (CVW). Have him talk to the plebes and see what their experiences were.
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I couldn’t agree more. If the applicant lands a CVW invitation, that is unfiltered exposure to actual plebes and upperclass, as well as academic year USNA daily life.

NASS is simply an introduction in a very superficial way to a service academy. Go too hard and real, people get scared away, go too soft, that’s not realistic - add in the fact the program will never please or satisfy 100% of the attendees, their parents, critics of the program, etc.
 
And let him know, after Plebe summer, unless you are on the shooting team, you'll only see any sort of weapon during parades. A cemented M1. :p

If he is that much jonesing to be a Marine and pound sand and carry logs, maybe he should enlist?? ;) Not much of that during your actual time on the Yard for a normal Mid.
 
I wonder if things were curtailed a bit due to air quality? No clue. But maybe? Annapolis logged in at a ‘very dangerous’ purple last week!
 
Holden100 said:
Probably need to give it another week before any of the current candidates can reply. DS did NASS 1 last week and is at SLE 2 right now. But DS did was also disappointed not being able to do many of the events the last day. I think someone got hurt, so some events were abbreviated. Many of DS's academic questions were answered, so that was a plus. Sorry about the pink eye!
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My son also did NASS last week and SLE this week. The only feedback I have so far is that NASS was an amazing experience, and the drive to SLE (through the Palisades) was jaw dropping (flat land Texas residents here lol).
 
My mid is a NASS detailer and said someone attending last week said it was WAY too military for them. They did morning PT, drill practice, administered the CFA and a modified sea trials among many other things too.
 
LA rockymnt hi said:
My mid is a NASS detailer and said someone attending last week said it was WAY too military for them. They did morning PT, drill practice, administered the CFA and a modified sea trials among many other things too.
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Well, there you go. It all depends on the perspective of the person experiencing it.

It’s not a live Call of Duty game.

And, as someone who lives in Annapolis and “enjoyed” Code Orange, Red and Purple consecutive days last week, we stayed inside, and I expect USNA followed established health protocols for outdoor activity.
 
Mom2Dom said:
My son also did NASS last week and SLE this week. The only feedback I have so far is that NASS was an amazing experience, and the drive to SLE (through the Palisades) was jaw dropping (flat land Texas residents here lol).
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The West Point campus is truly amazing! Just beautiful
 
DS is at Boys State now and is rooming with someone who did SLE at West Point. For what it’s worth, they compared notes on which was more difficult, and the roommate was jealous because NASS sounded harder and more involved. Who’s to say, though?
 
... so here are my .02 cents:
2028mom?
Refocus energy to PRT prep during plebe summer by practicing the 2-second count pushup cadence (video in YouTube).

IronmanDaremo
Ok... DS called me before the first plebe parade asking me if I could teach him how to fire the "musket" from 1776. Actually it's a M14 rifle which replaced the M1 Garand in 1957; the M16 replaced it in 1967.

Momtomom
This is the right attitude going to Plebe Summer.

LA Rockymtn Hi
Too military? This reminded me of those brand new doctors in Fort Sam Houston. I once asked a doctor during my morning run, "why are you crying?" The doc replied, "my sergeant was screaming at me." Let's not even talk about rifle marksmanship. Let's just say that the barn (or the cow) is safe.
 
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Also from looking at the ads, it was from the summer of 2017, so six years ago (also hard to believe that I was 3/C six years ago 😂) . A lot has probably changed from a safety/execution perspective from then to now. If someone got injured from working with the boats/rifles, it probably would get axed. If we get hurt, it is because of our official duties. It is a different ballgame with civilians paying to be there. So safety is watched very closely. Also, it is very possible that equipment was being used in the ad was being used for other trainings. And as @justdoit19 pointed out, the environmental conditions play a big role in the safety process. I actually was the weather boy for NASS (among other jobs) my 1/C year, so it was very common to see my weather brief change/restrict scheduled evolutions. Everything from rain to the heat index could make one week's NASS experience totally different from the rest.

USNA is a great place to become a Marine. However, future Marine development is outside the scope of NASS. If you want to be challenged, you will find many of them throughout your time by the Severn. I miss that place every day!
 
2028Mom? said:
Hello,
DS wants to be a Marine & attended NASS #1, but was unable to attend SLE due to scheduling. He was really hoping to get a taste of academy life - plebe summer, in particular. Instead, he found it very watered-down. Didn't get to do much on the ecourse, no boat carrying, no difficult PT/drills, no rifles.... nothing like the ads. Just came home with pink eye from that NASTY water. They were very concerned about the participants feeling "uncomfortable". Now the pictures of SLE are coming out & it appears much more like what's expected.
Is this difference indicative of life at both academies? For those with hopefuls that attended both, how did they compare? Which was preferred?
Click to expand...
This post hit very close to home. I am an incoming(VERY Marine motivated) plebe who was lucky enough to attend both SLE and NASS this past summer. To say I had two very different experiences would be an understatement.

For me, SLE provided insight into what combat arms culture was like and I loved it. My squad was incredibly close and we still are in touch. Some of my closest friends to this day are people I met at SLE. Most of all though, I fell in love with the culture of selfless service that our Cadre created.

NASS was a different experience. I did not get to spend any where near as much time with my squad and we were hence not as close. The culture was less "motivated", and certainly could feel "watered down" at times. (I will say I greatly enjoyed when Stew Smith made an appearance for PEP. I was fanboying throughout the whole workout. If your son does not consider death by pushups to be a good workout as a rising senior, I applaud his physical fitness level.) Despite all that I did not lose interest in USNA. Why? The relationships I formed with those detailing NASS. The best way I can explain it is that it felt as if I had finally found my people. Those relationships I created with all of the Midshipmen I got to talk to are what helped keep USNA and USMA on an equal level of interest in my mind despite having had an overall less positive experience at NASS compared to SLE.

A few months later, I was incredibly fortunate to have overnight visits at both academies. It was then that I had the clear realization that USNA was the place for me. The culture of selfless service that I loved at SLE? I got to experience it during my CVW. The Mids I interacted with from a new class? I felt that same bond with them as I felt with those I had previously met. I would also like to be clear(at the risk of being slightly confusing) that I greatly enjoyed my overnight visit as USMA and am very grateful to all the Cadets that had taken me under their wing. However, as I got to see first hand the cultures of USMA and USNA and juxtapose them, I came to some additional(private) realizations as to why USNA was the clear path for me(in terms of quality of life). This previous statement is NOT me saying that one academy seemed easier than the other. Lastly(and most importantly), it is imperative to look at what opportunities are beyond the academy. I was able to realize that despite being Marine motivated, there was not a single service assignment option offered at the Naval Academy that did not interest me.

In sum, I greatly preferred USMA's summer program over USNA's despite preferring the Naval Academy over West Point. Both academies(from my perspective) are very different from their respective summer programs. Keep that in mind and keep an open mind. End of the day, both schools are amazing places to end up. Best of luck to your son as he continues this process. I hope he is able to get something out of my post.

After having read my post over again, I feel an obligation to sign off showing some of my USNA pride.

Go Navy, Beat Army!
 
Light8004 said:
This post hit very close to home. I am an incoming(VERY Marine motivated) plebe who was lucky enough to attend both SLE and NASS this past summer. To say I had two very different experiences would be an understatement.

For me, SLE provided insight into what combat arms culture was like and I loved it. My squad was incredibly close and we still are in touch. Some of my closest friends to this day are people I met at SLE. Most of all though, I fell in love with the culture of selfless service that our Cadre created.

NASS was a different experience. I did not get to spend any where near as much time with my squad and we were hence not as close. The culture was less "motivated", and certainly could feel "watered down" at times. (I will say I greatly enjoyed when Stew Smith made an appearance for PEP. I was fanboying throughout the whole workout. If your son does not consider death by pushups to be a good workout as a rising senior, I applaud his physical fitness level.) Despite all that I did not lose interest in USNA. Why? The relationships I formed with those detailing NASS. The best way I can explain it is that it felt as if I had finally found my people. Those relationships I created with all of the Midshipmen I got to talk to are what helped keep USNA and USMA on an equal level of interest in my mind despite having had an overall less positive experience at NASS compared to SLE.

A few months later, I was incredibly fortunate to have overnight visits at both academies. It was then that I had the clear realization that USNA was the place for me. The culture of selfless service that I loved at SLE? I got to experience it during my CVW. The Mids I interacted with from a new class? I felt that same bond with them as I felt with those I had previously met. I would also like to be clear(at the risk of being slightly confusing) that I greatly enjoyed my overnight visit as USMA and am very grateful to all the Cadets that had taken me under their wing. However, as I got to see first hand the cultures of USMA and USNA and juxtapose them, I came to some additional(private) realizations as to why USNA was the clear path for me(in terms of quality of life). This previous statement is NOT me saying that one academy seemed easier than the other. Lastly(and most importantly), it is imperative to look at what opportunities are beyond the academy. I was able to realize that despite being Marine motivated, there was not a single service assignment option offered at the Naval Academy that did not interest me.

In sum, I greatly preferred USMA's summer program over USNA's despite preferring the Naval Academy over West Point. Both academies(from my perspective) are very different from their respective summer programs. Keep that in mind and keep an open mind. End of the day, both schools are amazing places to end up. Best of luck to your son as he continues this process. I hope he is able to get something out of my post.

After having read my post over again, I feel an obligation to sign off showing some of my USNA pride.

Go Navy, Beat Army!
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Great post. Even-handed and insightful.

And fanboying Stew…:rofl:
 
I was almost positive they have M1's for parade. At least an M14 would be an upgrade!

M16A1 for me during basic. ;)

And we shot the M16 and 1911 during my plebe summer. Kid at least got to use the M4 and P320. First time he ever shot anything!
 
Light8004 said:
Both academies(from my perspective) are very different from their respective summer programs. Keep that in mind and keep an open mind. End of the day, both schools are amazing places to end up.
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Brilliant post: insightful, balanced, thoughtful. The summer programs are a mere snapshot of what the SAs and branches are all about. To base a career — actually, a life — decision on a one-week outreach program would be terribly short-sighted and narrow-minded.

DD attended all three DOD SA summer programs. Each was special and educational and rewarding in its own way. When she attended, she was 80% leaning to USNA. But she found something intriguing, exciting and inviting about USMA and USAFA as well. Enough reason to apply to all three SAs and to be genuinely open to serving in any branch that would have her.

DD is now a Marine — and it happened despite an NASS experience that had no boat-carrying, no rifle-shooting and no brutal PTing. USNA doesn’t make Marines, or even start the process of making Marines, at NASS. That’s not the point, and one needs to be able to look beyond that.

In the end, the SAs are all different, reflecting the differences in their missions and cultures. But I’d venture that they have much more in common than not. They all turn out top-notch leaders, ready to lead and win.
 
At the end of the day, as much as each SA advertises all the ‘cool’ training stuff, the majority of their time will spent going to class. If your DS wants to be a Marine, USNA is a great place. He can join the Semper Fi club and other clubs, sports, etc to get exposed t0 USMC leaders and training. USNA prepared me extremely well for TBS and the fleet. I was comfortable at TBS. There are even more summer opportunities than I was there to push himself and get training. Summer programs are not Plebe Summer. Plebe Summer is not the academic year. Focus on the service he wants to serve in.
 
NavyHoops said:
At the end of the day, as much as each SA advertises all the ‘cool’ training stuff, the majority of their time will spent going to class.
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^ Great posts from Light and Hoops. Let's be realistic, each of the Service Academies, and each Service, has its own culture. Some of that is brought on by the very nature of the campuses -- USNA does not have the land mass to go out and play RAMBO all day, and the Naval Service is far different than Army or Air Force.

We didn't have rubber boats or log PT back in the day --but there were plenty of opportunities to observe and do gungy Marine Corps things. However, Hoops is right -- the vast majority of your time effort at USNA will be slogging through academics. If you want to go USMC, there will be plenty of opportunities to go play in the mud during TBS and in the Fleet.
 
Light8004 said:
This post hit very close to home. I am an incoming(VERY Marine motivated) plebe who was lucky enough to attend both SLE and NASS this past summer. To say I had two very different experiences would be an understatement.

For me, SLE provided insight into what combat arms culture was like and I loved it. My squad was incredibly close and we still are in touch. Some of my closest friends to this day are people I met at SLE. Most of all though, I fell in love with the culture of selfless service that our Cadre created.

NASS was a different experience. I did not get to spend any where near as much time with my squad and we were hence not as close. The culture was less "motivated", and certainly could feel "watered down" at times. (I will say I greatly enjoyed when Stew Smith made an appearance for PEP. I was fanboying throughout the whole workout. If your son does not consider death by pushups to be a good workout as a rising senior, I applaud his physical fitness level.) Despite all that I did not lose interest in USNA. Why? The relationships I formed with those detailing NASS. The best way I can explain it is that it felt as if I had finally found my people. Those relationships I created with all of the Midshipmen I got to talk to are what helped keep USNA and USMA on an equal level of interest in my mind despite having had an overall less positive experience at NASS compared to SLE.

A few months later, I was incredibly fortunate to have overnight visits at both academies. It was then that I had the clear realization that USNA was the place for me. The culture of selfless service that I loved at SLE? I got to experience it during my CVW. The Mids I interacted with from a new class? I felt that same bond with them as I felt with those I had previously met. I would also like to be clear(at the risk of being slightly confusing) that I greatly enjoyed my overnight visit as USMA and am very grateful to all the Cadets that had taken me under their wing. However, as I got to see first hand the cultures of USMA and USNA and juxtapose them, I came to some additional(private) realizations as to why USNA was the clear path for me(in terms of quality of life). This previous statement is NOT me saying that one academy seemed easier than the other. Lastly(and most importantly), it is imperative to look at what opportunities are beyond the academy. I was able to realize that despite being Marine motivated, there was not a single service assignment option offered at the Naval Academy that did not interest me.

In sum, I greatly preferred USMA's summer program over USNA's despite preferring the Naval Academy over West Point. Both academies(from my perspective) are very different from their respective summer programs. Keep that in mind and keep an open mind. End of the day, both schools are amazing places to end up. Best of luck to your son as he continues this process. I hope he is able to get something out of my post.

After having read my post over again, I feel an obligation to sign off showing some of my USNA pride.
Click to expand...

Light8004 said:
Go Navy, Beat Army!
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Thank you so very much for this insight! Exactly on point!
 
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