USNA v NROTC

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SeePower

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I am inclined to believe that there would be more academic support provided for a midshipman at USNA vs. a civilian school. Anyone care to agree/refute/opine? I am still hopeful that my DS will have the choice. Thanks in advance!
 
Typically, a midshipman will carry a heavier course load (and more added responsibilities) than most college students. Clearly, there are exceptions. However, as you noted, USNA works very hard (like all of the SAs) to allow the students to succeed. When I was on the USAFA faculty, my highest priority was working with cadets. Some still 'failed' the Physics courses that I taught, but they had every opportunity to work with me and others to succeed in the classroom. I witnessed many examples of faculty going well beyond 'the call' to assist their cadets.

ROTC units and their members provide support as they can. Upperclassmen may provide helpful insights into the different classes, etc. I observed that added assistance when I was at GA Tech as a graduate student working with the AFROTC unit there. I'm sure others on the forum will provide their insights too.
 
What academic support are you thinking of? Just about every college has tutors and/or learning centers to help students in different courses/subjects. My DS's NROTC unit has required study hall hours for freshman and Midshipman taking Calculus/Physics. I believe that also have a math tutor they pay for also, but can't confirm right now. That doesn't include being able to go to Prof's and get help like anyone else can at college.
 
I would guess that many schools provide the same types of academic support that a service academy provides. What service academies do that traditional schools do not - someone (and in reality multiple people) is actually monitoring the cadet/mid's progress and can mandate the cadet/mids participation in academic support efforts.

The hard part about graduating from a service academy - getting the appointment. Once you are in - there is tremendous support available to get you through the program.
 
One can succeed via either route.

I’ve had children attend regular college, and SA’s.

As far as the OPS’s question, my experience is this: the entire facility/school is dedicated to your commissioning/graduation in 4 yrs at a SA. From scheduling, to support, to extra academic instruction, to summer summer programs and classes. The entire institution.

At a non-military institution school, there is help available of course. But the mission of the school isn’t to make sure you graduate/commission in 4 yrs. It’s more up to you, the student, to ensure you are on track and seeking out help. You won’t be removed from your extracurricular’s, for example, if you are UNSAT. Of course you can be removed from the ROTC program.

Both have successful outcomes. From parental observation, IMO it seems that an SA overall is ‘easier’ for the student, in this sense.
 
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USNA has enormous amounts of support. I think most universities have plenty, but it’s up to students to seek out the help. Same with USNA, but there is more oversight. Classes are also much smaller and no TAs, so profs know you. They know when you sleep. Also, class is mandatory. The academic center has tons of resources, but a Mid has to seek out the help and actually participate in it. I do think most USNA profs are more accessible to Mids and support.
 
NavyHoops said:
USNA has enormous amounts of support. I think most universities have plenty, but it’s up to students to seek out the help. Same with USNA, but there is more oversight. Classes are also much smaller and no TAs, so profs know you. They know when you sleep. Also, class is mandatory. The academic center has tons of resources, but a Mid has to seek out the help and actually participate in it. I do think most USNA profs are more accessible to Mids and support.
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I am probably wrong about this … but I thought my son told me there are requirements to respond to emails from professors within a certain amount of time.

He said the professors are great at timely responding to student emails.

My son thought USNA was excellent as far as providing resources to help students.

Also - there is a team approach. Classmates and upperclassmen want to help their peers at USNA. My son tutored students in various subjects all four years - even for classes he wasn’t taking.
 
^ Agree 100% with 'Hoops.
USNA is a lot more structured than a typical college. It's hard to "get lost".
That said, if you don't take advantage of the support opportunities, you can get axed
 
A1Janitor said:
I am probably wrong about this … but I thought my son told me there are requirements to respond to emails from professors within a certain amount of time.

He said the professors are great at timely responding to student emails.

My son thought USNA was excellent as far as providing resources to help students.

Also - there is a team approach. Classmates and upperclassmen want to help their peers at USNA. My son tutored students in various subjects all four years - even for classes he wasn’t taking.
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This is another ‘difference’ that was pointed out to me. That at a SA, it’s the team approach you mentioned. At regular college (and rotc), it more of a competitive approach. Not every ROTC student will commission, or be picked up. They are still competing against their peers (is how it was explained to me). And they are for sure competing against their college classmates in their major classes.

The peer approach at USNA was part of the leadership aspect.
 
Cerberi said:
I would guess that many schools provide the same types of academic support that a service academy provides.
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I teach at a respected technical university (that has AFROTC by the way) and as part of my courses, I'm expected to provide "Office Hours" where students can arrange to get help if needed. I am not under any requirement, implied or actual to go beyond this.
At USNA, professors are REQUIRED to provide "extra instruction" to their students at a time that is MUTUALLY ACCEPTABLE. If any of my students who want help from me have classes or other conflict with my office hours, that is too bad for them but at USNA, the professor must find another time slot.
To me, that is a big difference, especially when you incorporate the scheduling conflicts due to the typical 18-20 credit load along with sports, etc at a service academy.
 
mike1979 said:
Just watch this. This is all you need to know about the extent USNA would go to help the student.

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That doesn’t look like a USNA cover?

Video also states ‘cadet at a military academy’. Is this USNA?
 
justdoit19 said:
That doesn’t look like a USNA cover?

Video also states ‘cadet at a military academy’. Is this USNA?
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Interesting... the spot clearly suggests USNA, and the cover in the picture is the old style woman's cover..but I don't recall the star at the top of the insignia on cover. (ANd I don't recall when USNA went from the old style cover to the unisex look).

I had to laugh at the comments about "academic probation". Back in the day a lot of Plebes were on academic probation, it was a fact of life. However, USNA will go to great lengths to ensure that everyone has the opportunity to succeed.
 
I will be they have equal academic support. However the SAs may enforce you taking advantage of it more than a civilian University. If you want to fail out then go ahead.
 
Cerberi said:
What service academies do that traditional schools do not - someone (and in reality multiple people) is actually monitoring the cadet/mid's progress and can mandate the cadet/mids participation in academic support efforts
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Many NROTC units do the same. They provide tutoring for tougher courses and have mandatory study hours for folks in academic trouble

That being said, I expect the support at USNA is better
 
SeePower said:
I am inclined to believe that there would be more academic support provided for a midshipman at USNA vs. a civilian school. Anyone care to agree/refute/opine? I am still hopeful that my DS will have the choice. Thanks in advance!
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... so this is a contrarian view against a USNA English Literature professor. Just like anywhere else in groups/organizations, there's always that one: toxic, lord of chaos, hostile, dominant, authoritarian, immoral, unethical, and borderline conduct unbecoming. During Plebe year, DS started with 3.21 GPA, then it decreased to 2.7 GPA. I asked him about the drop. Before he could answer, I noticed that determined Mid stare and his voice was cold and resolute. Got it. I backed off. This professor gave DS a "D-" while he was making "As" in Calculus and Physics. He did not see eye to eye with this individual. A similar post from a class of 2025 mentioned this professor. I think this professor was fired eventually. Moving forward, lesson learned for DS is he has to adjust about how to deal effectively with different leadership styles however TOXIC and borderline conduct unbecoming.
 
Trainer said:
Looks like CGA to me.
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Bingo... looks likey USCG still wears the old style cover and has a star on the insignia.
Trainer wins the spiffy question of the day !

(Gonna confess, I was thinking about all the alternatives and USCGA never even crossed my mind)
 
severn said:
Moving forward, lesson learned for DS is he has to adjust about how to deal effectively with different leadership styles however TOXIC and borderline conduct unbecoming.
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This lesson applies to all walks of life.... you will run across those in positions of authority that you don't agree with, and you learn to deal with it, hopefully in a positive matter so you get to that point where you are in the position of authority and don't make the same mistakes.

I presume you are referring to Professor Fleming...well known on SAF and a very public critic of USNA. Not sure where he is now..last I saw he had been dismissed, won an appeal and reinstated in a non teaching role, and waiting for results of USNA appeal. Some love him, some hate him,,,,, I don't know enough to take sides, but do believe there is a place for a contrarian in the military education system as long as the message is taught correctly,
 
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