Standards in Free Fall

navy27hopeful said:
We've moved rooms 3 times last semester, and at MOST would have 3 hours. Usually they were doing room inspections 2 hours after telling us to move. Don't think its that big of a deal imo
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Fair, but whenever you’re told do so on a Sunday night after losing a Knowledge-Bowl by a close margin, it will really mess up your schedule
 
At the end of the day the argument about hazing versus training and how this is done in a military environment designed to be stressful is, IMHO, sadly driven by society and it's viewpoint at the time. Society as a whole doesn't understand the rigors of military service and as correctly and sarcastically pointed out by USAFA_86 above, luckily the next firefight or bombing will be announced and never inconvenient or potentially hazardous. After major conflicts such as WW1 and WW2 or attacks closer to home such as 9/11, society was happy to have warriors protecting their freedoms and didn't care about how that military was trained as long as it was there and effective in protecting the rights of those not prepared or unable to fight for them. During long periods of peace (let's face it to most the conflicts overseas the last few years seem too far away to be a real concern) people forget what it's like to fight for anything and take their military for granted and some who join are not truly prepared for what it might mean to live a life of service. These folks then complain and the social media trolls are all too happy to jump on the bandwagon, decry the unfair treatment and demand change to a system they neither support nor understand. There are, without doubt, actions that are always unacceptable and people who don't understand punishment versus hazing versus development but that has always been true and will always remain. The best we can do is hope that the military in all its branches realizes that the uninformed opinions of the social media masses should not be their guiding light and we can return to the training and development of leaders of character who are also warriors not whimps and can lead their forces into battle should the need arise. "The society who separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and it fighting done by fools" Thucydides 460 BC- 395 BC.
 
There are lots of things I like about USAFA--its why I was a part of it for so long--but I long ago concluded that it does not really know how to build a leader, and the sorts of things discussed in this thread (pendulum swings, rapid deployments :rolleyes:) demonstrate this. We can debate the value of all the current changes to "training policy" but the pendulum swings in a relatively narrow range (more marching, less marching, more pushups, less pushups) and has little to do with whether we are producing an officer with more leadership skills than the accomplished high school graduate that showed up for basic training. Part of this is competency modeling (or lack thereof)--USAFA ignores them and therefore anything can be leadership development. Part of it is the skills and experience level of trainers (or lack thereof)--USAFA assumes a good pilot or maintenance officer will make a good leader developer, as if the jobs are similar (they're not). Part of it is resources--there are not enough strong developmental jobs for everyone--the best cadets that need the least development are "rewarded" with the best leadership roles while the many cadets that need the most development get the mediocre and sometimes totally made up jobs so they don't feel left out. Finally, part of it is this is really how the AF works. Its dominated by pilots, who are very highly trained and fly ALONE or in a tight crew. It might be that Army and Marine style leadership just isn't needed and therefore not valued. That said, GO to USAFA if you want to fly, go space, and support those who do. But if you are going to SA to learn to become the proverbial (and outdated) "leader of men", then you will have to fight for these developmental opportunities at USAFA and might get more out of USMA.
 
GoodRun said:
There are lots of things I like about USAFA--its why I was a part of it for so long--but I long ago concluded that it does not really know how to build a leader, and the sorts of things discussed in this thread (pendulum swings, rapid deployments :rolleyes:) demonstrate this. We can debate the value of all the current changes to "training policy" but the pendulum swings in a relatively narrow range (more marching, less marching, more pushups, less pushups) and has little to do with whether we are producing an officer with more leadership skills than the accomplished high school graduate that showed up for basic training. Part of this is competency modeling (or lack thereof)--USAFA ignores them and therefore anything can be leadership development. Part of it is the skills and experience level of trainers (or lack thereof)--USAFA assumes a good pilot or maintenance officer will make a good leader developer, as if the jobs are similar (they're not). Part of it is resources--there are not enough strong developmental jobs for everyone--the best cadets that need the least development are "rewarded" with the best leadership roles while the many cadets that need the most development get the mediocre and sometimes totally made up jobs so they don't feel left out. Finally, part of it is this is really how the AF works. Its dominated by pilots, who are very highly trained and fly ALONE or in a tight crew. It might be that Army and Marine style leadership just isn't needed and therefore not valued. That said, GO to USAFA if you want to fly, go space, and support those who do. But if you are going to SA to learn to become the proverbial (and outdated) "leader of men", then you will have to fight for these developmental opportunities at USAFA and might get more out of USMA.
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I can see this. I have found it somewhat ironic over the years that one of the elements the SAs are looking for is proven leadership, which is what they are supposed to teach. I also see where the percentage of pilots play into this difference between AFA and other SAs.
 
justme said:
I can see this. I have found it somewhat ironic over the years that one of the elements the SAs are looking for is proven leadership, which is what they are supposed to teach. I also see where the percentage of pilots play into this difference between AFA and other SAs.
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SA recruiters are doing a great disservice to applicants by playing up the selectivity of the institution by seeking "proven leaders". It gives the impression to cadets that they are already great leaders and have little to learn. This is a form of arrogance that makes them less likely to pay attention to leadership academics, leadership developmental positions, and take on challenging positions so they can learn more. This is what you see in C-suite executives--they are hard to coach because their salary, big window office, and secretary out side their door tells them they are already great leaders. They too have much to learn--and decades of bad habits to unlearn--if they want to make CEO. Its a shame that some cadets think like this when all they did was quarterback the football team for one year or organize a city wide blood drive. It is more accurate to say that SAs are looking for people with demonstrated potential to lead effectively. Some don't have it...they just don't like the responsibility, the limelight, or the challenge.
 
GoodRun said:
There are lots of things I like about USAFA--its why I was a part of it for so long--but I long ago concluded that it does not really know how to build a leader...
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Since my original post #106 above was pretty negative, yet I did work there for a long time...I thought I would explain the discrepancy.

The system is not very good and that makes your job harder, but leadership development can still take place. First, the cadet has to WANT to develop. They see things, they hear things, they realize they have something to learn, and they look for opportunities or ask for help. As a leader developer, you try to help them understand the system in place and how to use it to the best of their ability to develop themselves. Did you get a crappy job this semester? What can you do to amaze your peers and boss with what you did with it? You didn't interview well for that top job? What can you do to bolster your weaknesses and polish your strengths? Its a conversation, often one-on-on in an office. After a semester or two, you can sit back and be proud of the changes you see.
 
usafa2525 said:
In terms of training, this is a message I received from Group Training Staff (I am in my Squadron Training Staff):

"The reason the Comm is having every squad sign the form about hazing is because the Vice Comm heard rumor of a training session that included bed drills where the training staff was not also doing bed drills. Additionally this went until 0715, meaning the 4-degrees did not have time to eat. If that did happen, that is hazing; The punishment is disenrollment. If someone is suspected of hazing, their AOC will be in the Comm's office in service dress. The AOC will then walk through the allegations with the Commandant. If they both still believe it was hazing, that person will be disenrolled. Please do not get caught hazing; TO's are the bastion between a professional military and a regular college. We need you to stay in your job and follow the rules. We are fighting for you to get more freedom; we cannot do that if we are constantly being accused of hazing violations."

While I understand that hazing is not ok, the stretch of the definition of hazing has become almost a joke at this point. Can anyone tell me any kind of military training that is not hazing? Because apparently bed drills (having C4Cs remake beds due to infractions) is hazing if the Training Staff are not also doing so. LOL!

This is not the only thing considered hazing. Consider this year's training ROEs, or at least some of my personal favorites:

- "Assigning remedial training to an entire group based on the deficiencies of an individual or a few individuals" - because nothing screams teamwork more than "if you mess up, i don't care because i won't be punished!"

- "Requiring all Four-Degrees in a squadron to indiscriminately move rooms by a set timeline" - I guess having flexibility isn't the key to airpower after all.

- "Cadet Military Training events will not be designed with the primary objective to reach physical conditioning goals." - obviously, USAF doesn't have a fitness problem. at all.

- "While conducting calisthenics... cadets shall not conduct more than 3 sets of each exercise. Each set shall not exceed 1 minute of work and shall be immediately followed by a period of rest equivalent to the period of work (1:1 ratio of work to rest)." - when you are in a war, you won't have to do physical activity longer than a minute.

- "If a low/high crawl event is incorporated [in training], all cadets (including upper class cadets) at the training event will conduct the low/high crawl, unless on a medical profile." - because it's clearly maltraining if you don't do it with them. Once a freshman, always a freshman. You just get to decide what the group does.

- "Cadets will not conduct the low or high crawl in snow or on wet, uneven, or rocky terrain." - after he escaped from a POW camp in Vietnam, Capt Lance P. Sijan only had to low crawl on a field flatter than Kansas. And when his captors tried to catch him, they had to low crawl too, because otherwise that wouldn't be fair!

- "At no time will the weight of the ruck exceed 20% of the individual's body weight." - when you are carrying survival equipment on a deployment, it'll never be heavier than (1/5)*[your body weight]. God takes care of the rest. Hope you can call in that 9-line, because you definitely won't have anything weighing more than a few books to help medically!

- "Lunges are not authorized indoors." - I can't find of a reason for this, not even a comical one unfortunately.

- "Squadrons are not authorized to require cadets to complete pushups/sit-ups upon entering/exiting the squadron area." - because we definitely don't have a fitness problem in USAF, and especially not at USAFA! How dare you suggest such a thing!

I have to finish a presentation for a class tomorrow, but my list could go on and on and on. Keep in mind that this doesn't include the unwritten rules that you can get in trouble for. Any physical training, bed drills, and supermans (rapid changing of uniforms due to infractions) must be done with the C4Cs.

Some squads are able to get away with doing real training, but it relies on a strong band of trust between upperclassmen and freshmen. If anyone spills, even unintentionally, it's GAME OVER for the training staff, the squad comm, and likely the AOC career-wise.

In short, USAFA leadership is asking Training staff to do their jobs with not one, but two hands tied behind their backs. And blindfolded too. It all reminds me of a story my Ac Advisor told me last year. When he was going through OTS, the MTIs were not allowed to yell at them because, for a very short while, yelling was deemed to be maltreatment. Doesn't that sound like a complete joke? That's what USAFA has turned into: a joke. Its remaining pillar left standing is academics, and sorry, but a lot of colleges besides USAFA do just as well or better in that field.

What's the purpose behind all of this? Well, we had some very *iconic* meetings with General Marks (who has only briefed us a total of 2 or 3 times... he's the least visible Commandant that I have witnessed so far) and many on Wing Staff were able to elicit that the main reason for so many C4C ROE changes was that "we aren't in Vietnam anymore, and we shouldn't be preparing freshmen to be in POW camps." Not kidding, that is word for word what one of my friends on Wing Staff told me. Because we totally aren't headed for near-peer conflict in the near future! Ah, yes, I remember... the US can't be in a near-peer conflict because we already had a War to end all Wars. So there isn't a risk of any POW camps, right? And we aren't ill-prepared for what a POW camp would look like, right?

I guess I am the spitting image of a fed-up, negative cadet... but I'm not the only one. Recent results from our DEOCS survey - the results of which were completely invalidated because we were coerced to take it by the Commandant by allowing those who took it to wear civvies to class on a few days - showed that morale across the wing had dropped some 30%. On top of that, several changes have been announced regarding future Training ROEs, a likely scrapping of Recognition altogether, and a new cadet pass system. All of these were wildly unpopular, but their impact could not be shown in the DEOCS because the survey deadline closed before the Commandant briefed us about them.

I simply refuse to accept that this is the way USAFA has been in the past. Sure, it may be a pendulum swing, but I highly doubt the pendulum has ever swung this far. This place is a shadow of a shell of what it used to be.
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I might be a little late to this thread, but I disagree with a lot of this reasoning. Full disclosure, I did not go to AFA. I was an AFROTC grad. However, as someone with multiple overseas tours in the Viper, multiple combat sorties over Syria/Iraq/CDAG, and now moving on to the F-35, I think I can speak to what makes a good combat officer and what does not.

"Assigning remedial training to an entire group based on the deficiencies of an individual or a few individuals" - because nothing screams teamwork more than "if you mess up, i don't care because i won't be punished!"

--- Ok I agree with you on this. Teamwork and wingman ship concept is important and I think group remedial training is a valid form of feedback to reinforce.

"Requiring all Four-Degrees in a squadron to indiscriminately move rooms by a set timeline"- I guess having flexibility isn't the key to airpower after all.

---This isn't "flexibility is the key to Air Power. This is movement without a purpose. Other posters have mentioned that this screws up cadets ability to study, sleep, live. You want max performance and learning? Allow for adequate rest. Don't hit me with "but in combat ect.". I've been there. I get Ambien to put me down, and Go Pills to get me up. The real Air Force has realized the importance of rest to the warfighter, why not extend that to USAFA?

"Cadet Military Training events will not be designed with the primary objective to reach physical conditioning goals." - obviously, USAF doesn't have a fitness problem. at all.

---If you think that these random events move the needle at all regarding actual physical conditioning goals, I have a fad diet to sell to you. Group PT is a very very poor mechanism for physical training. You can burn someone out doing all the pushups in the world, it is not going to make them stronger and can actually cause injury. Don't think I am allergic to working out, I compete in physique competitions. I just know from lots of experience that no cadet led group PT will be a positive net gain to overall physical fitness.

"While conducting calisthenics... cadets shall not conduct more than 3 sets of each exercise. Each set shall not exceed 1 minute of work and shall be immediately followed by a period of rest equivalent to the period of work (1:1 ratio of work to rest)." - when you are in a war, you won't have to do physical activity longer than a minute.

---I think this is a fine rule. I have seen more avoidable injuries with stupid group PT events then I can count. Do not say "but when were are at war". Have you been to war? I have. I credit group PT with exactly 0 of my accomplishments downrange.

"If a low/high crawl event is incorporated [in training], all cadets (including upper class cadets) at the training event will conduct the low/high crawl, unless on a medical profile." - because it's clearly maltraining if you don't do it with them. Once a freshman, always a freshman. You just get to decide what the group does.

---- This looks like a "Lead by Example" situation and I am all for it.

"Cadets will not conduct the low or high crawl in snow or on wet, uneven, or rocky terrain." - after he escaped from a POW camp in Vietnam, Capt Lance P. Sijan only had to low crawl on a field flatter than Kansas. And when his captors tried to catch him, they had to low crawl too, because otherwise that wouldn't be fair!

----Full agree with this rule. Low and high crawls have high injury potential and low reward. They are simply done to be painful. Don't hit me with "But POW's". If I am captured I will do anything I need to do to survive. We do not train to that extreme level often and when we do, it is under supervision of professionals (SERE). Show me a POW that would have escaped if only they did more low crawls at the academy and I will buy you lunch.

"At no time will the weight of the ruck exceed 20% of the individual's body weight." - when you are carrying survival equipment on a deployment, it'll never be heavier than (1/5)*[your body weight]. God takes care of the rest. Hope you can call in that 9-line, because you definitely won't have anything weighing more than a few books to help medically!

---- You are not training them in a CRO/STO pipeline. You are training them to be a cadet. If they are going to be calling in a 9-Line, they are going through years of training with professionals to be able to do that. Giving them a super heavy ruck is not your place and can lead to injury for no reason.

"Lunges are not authorized indoors." - I can't find of a reason for this, not even a comical one unfortunately.

---- Yeah that's a weird one, I will give you that.

"Squadrons are not authorized to require cadets to complete pushups/sit-ups upon entering/exiting the squadron area." - because we definitely don't have a fitness problem in USAF, and especially not at USAFA! How dare you suggest such a thing!

----- Refer to my previous comment that this does very little to move the needle on physical fitness.


The one thing I have learned as my years as a fighter instructor pilot is always have a "why" for doing something. That "why" needs to be grounded in TTP's, threat assumptions, understanding of systems, ect. Most of these rules seem to be for the physical protection of cadets. If you can't find a way to add stress without physical exertion, I argue that you are not utilizing all the tools you have.

I know this is a long post, but the Air Force has (and should) be looking to eliminate training methods that do not contribute to the overall end goal. If tradition is hurting progress, then to hell with tradition. Tradition will not keep me alive over Taiwan.

You do not have even close to a good understanding of what the next war will look like. I only have a very small idea based on my MDS's role in it. I do not need people who can low crawl for 100 miles. I need people who can process massive amounts of data quickly, prioritize the data under large mental stress, and can make a split second decisions because they understand the "Why".
 
a400831 said:
I know this is a long post, but the Air Force has (and should) be looking to eliminate training methods that do not contribute to the overall end goal. If tradition is hurting progress, then to hell with tradition. Tradition will not keep me alive over Taiwan.
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Well said. The lazy way to develop leaders: I was told to do it that way, that was the way it was done to me, nobody told me to do it differently. Push ups, moving rooms, lunges, heavy rucks, and low or high crawling have almost nothing to do with leadership or leader development. Carefully considering what an individual subordinate or a team you lead needs in order to succeed, and then helping an individual or team get those things is leadership and leader development. Perhaps one of your people has no upper body strength or no endurance...now you can prescribe the right developmental activity for them...and doing so at night or with no notice doesn't help. Perhaps the team needs communication or conflict management skills...now you can prescribe the right developmental activity for them. It could involve carrying a pack, but carrying a 5 ton pack does not help people learn communication...it just makes them too angry and tired to talk. I think the Comm is telling current cadets to start leading and developing others and stop relying on silly punishments and hazing which is more likely to produce anger, resentment and injuries, than a future leader.
 
a400831 said:
"Requiring all Four-Degrees in a squadron to indiscriminately move rooms by a set timeline"- I guess having flexibility isn't the key to airpower after all.

---This isn't "flexibility is the key to Air Power. This is movement without a purpose. Other posters have mentioned that this screws up cadets ability to study, sleep, live. You want max performance and learning? Allow for adequate rest. Don't hit me with "but in combat ect.". I've been there. I get Ambien to put me down, and Go Pills to get me up. The real Air Force has realized the importance of rest to the warfighter, why not extend that to USAFA?
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a400831 said:
You do not have even close to a good understanding of what the next war will look like. I only have a very small idea based on my MDS's role in it. I do not need people who can low crawl for 100 miles. I need people who can process massive amounts of data quickly, prioritize the data under large mental stress, and can make a split second decisions because they understand the "Why".
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To me, the first bullet is the ultimate college environment prep for the 2nd. Doing "Time sink" drills, whether they are bed changes, bulletin boards, other movement without purpose events, etc. They force the cadet/mid to quickly process the data and prioritize under mental stress.

The most important thing I believe DS learned his USNA plebe year was to quickly determine what to prioritize and to give up due to those time sinks.
 
justme said:
To me, the first bullet is the ultimate college environment prep for the 2nd. Doing "Time sink" drills, whether they are bed changes, bulletin boards, other movement without purpose events, etc. They force the cadet/mid to quickly process the data and prioritize under mental stress.

The most important thing I believe DS learned his USNA plebe year was to quickly determine what to prioritize and to give up due to those time sinks.
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An understandable statement, let me clarify.

I fully agree that temporal stress is a good training tool that forces prioritization. However, like all tools, it should be utilized appropriately. If cadet trainers order a random room move that causes a cadet to only get 4 hours of sleep, then the cadet gets a poor grade on an academic assignment the next day, I 100% put the blame on the cadet trainers for not setting their subordinates up for success.

Case in point: As an instructor pilot, I induce plenty of stress into my students flight. However each period of stress is carefully timed to test their prioritization while not over task-saturating them. If you look at the stress performance curve, too much stress causes a decrease in both learning and performance. If I put a B-Course student into the middle of a massive Red Flag OCA-AI scenario, and they screw it up, the failure is on ME for putting them into that overwhelming scenario they were not ready for, not the student.

Additionally, and I can't stress this enough, my goal as an IP is to fly a stable platform for my students. How can I expect them to succeed if I am not flying my own briefed contracts, airspeeds, altitudes, ect. Instructors should provide a stable platform (in the air AND on the ground) that facilitates learning, not create instability for the sake of instability. That only creates frustration and friction.
 
a400831 said:
"Lunges are not authorized indoors." - I can't find of a reason for this, not even a comical one unfortunately.

---- Yeah that's a weird one, I will give you that.
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I recently spoke to my 1st semester Training Officer about this specific thing. The reason is that lunges (and other exercises such as burpees, iron mikes, etc.) are too dynamic to be done indoors safely. The concern is that indoors there is much less room, and would be far too easy to smack your head, slip on the slick tile, or hit someone next to you. Seemed to be a risk vs reward decision and they were banned in favor of more static exercises.
 
GoodRun said:
but carrying a 5 ton pack does not help people learn communication...it just makes them too angry and tired to talk.
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I have actually learned communication lessons in that exact situation. Because situations like that are high stress, it's even more important to consider how your words will be interpreted by others and if what you're saying is really necessary. If you can learn communicate more effectively in stressful and physically demanding situations where others are also 'angry and tired,' you have learned something you can apply more vastly to leadership as a whole. When done effectively, rucking under duress can be used to teach lessons, which I think you also pointed to.
 
With recognition coming up this week (good luck Doolies!), the latest RUMOR is they are considering eliminating recognition all together moving forward.
 
SpiritCommitteeLiaison said:
That rumor has been around for years. At least since 2019.
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Reporting to you live on the ground of USAFA: it's pretty much CANX this time around.

I feel comfortable sharing this information because, although Recognition is generally kept secret, there is absolutely no way it will ever happen like it has this year. Either it will go back to normal or it will be CANX entirely.

Recognition was cancelled for all of yesterday due to a snowstorm. Although Recognition still continued in similar conditions in 2006, 2013, and 2016, PP does not trust us to run recognition; because they can't get on base to supervise, we are not allowed to do anything. This is the same for this morning. Recognition events will not start until 1130 due to a delay. Additionally, we will be doing an Inclement Weather (IW) Plan.

Here are some changes within the last 24 hours:

"Deviation from any portion of the Recognition OPORD will result in an LoN" (a LoN is a "Letter of Notification" which basically means presumptive disenrollment) <-- I get the sentiment here, but in the fog of a stressful environment there's bound to be some deviation from the set plan. Current feeling among most upperclassmen is we want to make a meaningful experience for the C4Cs, but with PP breathing down our necks constantly we are basically frozen, afraid to make any move.

From Group 2 and/or 3: "Deviation from any portion of the Recognition OPORD will result in an LoN for the upperclassman and the Squadron Commander" -- I sort of agree with this sentiment of the supervisor should be punished... I'm just sharing this because it's the level of threats that upperclassmen are dealing with right now

"Contraband will not be confiscated from C4Cs during Recognition" <-- probably the most contradictory statement ever. C4Cs typically have to lock up their phones, watches, and computers during all of Recognition. Not this year, probably because PP sees it as hazing.

"Lights will not be dimmed during Recognition" <-- Generally, squadron AORs are modified in different ways to create a sense of seriousness. The idea is that returning to a familiar place will not set the tone for a squadron's Recognition. It would be like if you did BCT at your high school.

"Upperclassmen may not yell at C4Cs to create a stressful environment." <-- The entire intent of Recognition was modified *literally yesterday* to assess how C4Cs will do as 2nd LTs, instead of assessing how they have mastered the skills taught to them over Doolie year (oh wait, I can't say the word "doolie" anymore. A person in my squadron got a Negative Form 10 for saying "doolie" (and another got one for saying the F-word)).

"No basic wakeups will be allowed." <-- same intent as the previous point. Like that's fine, but then why have we been training them on Agile Combat Employment, performance under stress, etc. all year???

"You may not use the words SERE, POW, incarceration, imprisonment, or any verbiage pertaining to the aforementioned." <-- apparently just saying the word SERE is just as stress-inducing as going through the program.

So, in short, events on Thursday were completely CANX, Friday modified beyond repair. And a vast majority of the changes have occurred - including the "intent" piece - within the last 24 hours. Saturday will be interesting. The idea is to just do the Prop and Wings ceremony and be done with it. We can't yell, we can't induce stress, we can't make it a memorable experience. And there's gonna be a ton of grads on here who say "make the most of it" but honestly the only way to do that *without getting disenrolled* is to make it a complete joke to everyone involved. That being said, I'm all ears, so if you have some specific ideas besides "do what you can" or "be creative" then I'd be happy to hear them!

There's also probably going to be a few "I'm a grad from 1812, and these changes are all good because I never utilized them in my AF career" or "I'm was a fighter pilot, I never went to USAFA, but basically everything you guys have been doing for like 70 years doesn't make sense," but there is a TON of VALUABLE experience gained from creating an artificially stressful environment. And maybe people find the "When we're at war" mantra corny af, but to say that a likely near-peer conflict with China or Russia will not be stress-inducing, or that many of these traditions will not be valuable, is utterly ridiculous. I recently spoke to a grad who was a POW in Vietnam. He said that his experiences during his freshman year were crucial to his survival while a Prisoner of War. No, we're not at war right now, but we ought to be prepared for stuff that happened in our military's past. Sorry for anyone that was triggered by my saying "POW" or "Prisoner of War", btw.

General Moga, our previous highly-respected Commandant, said the following about doing hard things at USAFA: "Every cadet that leaves this institution, regardless of ending up in an operational career field or not, has to understand and embrace the warfighter state of mind — the warfighter mentality. Whether they end up in combat or supporting those who do, that mentality will serve them well throughout their careers and throughout their lives." At the end of the day, everything that the USAFA of yesterday did for CW, especially for the C4Cs, helped them build this warfighter mentality. It's sad to see a lot of this go away for the current freshmen.
 
usafa2525 said:
Reporting to you live on the ground of USAFA: it's pretty much CANX this time around.

I feel comfortable sharing this information because, although Recognition is generally kept secret, there is absolutely no way it will ever happen like it has this year. Either it will go back to normal or it will be CANX entirely.

Recognition was cancelled for all of yesterday due to a snowstorm. Although Recognition still continued in similar conditions in 2006, 2013, and 2016, PP does not trust us to run recognition; because they can't get on base to supervise, we are not allowed to do anything. This is the same for this morning. Recognition events will not start until 1130 due to a delay. Additionally, we will be doing an Inclement Weather (IW) Plan.

Here are some changes within the last 24 hours:

"Deviation from any portion of the Recognition OPORD will result in an LoN" (a LoN is a "Letter of Notification" which basically means presumptive disenrollment) <-- I get the sentiment here, but in the fog of a stressful environment there's bound to be some deviation from the set plan. Current feeling among most upperclassmen is we want to make a meaningful experience for the C4Cs, but with PP breathing down our necks constantly we are basically frozen, afraid to make any move.

From Group 2 and/or 3: "Deviation from any portion of the Recognition OPORD will result in an LoN for the upperclassman and the Squadron Commander" -- I sort of agree with this sentiment of the supervisor should be punished... I'm just sharing this because it's the level of threats that upperclassmen are dealing with right now

"Contraband will not be confiscated from C4Cs during Recognition" <-- probably the most contradictory statement ever. C4Cs typically have to lock up their phones, watches, and computers during all of Recognition. Not this year, probably because PP sees it as hazing.

"Lights will not be dimmed during Recognition" <-- Generally, squadron AORs are modified in different ways to create a sense of seriousness. The idea is that returning to a familiar place will not set the tone for a squadron's Recognition. It would be like if you did BCT at your high school.

"Upperclassmen may not yell at C4Cs to create a stressful environment." <-- The entire intent of Recognition was modified *literally yesterday* to assess how C4Cs will do as 2nd LTs, instead of assessing how they have mastered the skills taught to them over Doolie year (oh wait, I can't say the word "doolie" anymore. A person in my squadron got a Negative Form 10 for saying "doolie" (and another got one for saying the F-word)).

"No basic wakeups will be allowed." <-- same intent as the previous point. Like that's fine, but then why have we been training them on Agile Combat Employment, performance under stress, etc. all year???

"You may not use the words SERE, POW, incarceration, imprisonment, or any verbiage pertaining to the aforementioned." <-- apparently just saying the word SERE is just as stress-inducing as going through the program.

So, in short, events on Thursday were completely CANX, Friday modified beyond repair. And a vast majority of the changes have occurred - including the "intent" piece - within the last 24 hours. Saturday will be interesting. The idea is to just do the Prop and Wings ceremony and be done with it. We can't yell, we can't induce stress, we can't make it a memorable experience. And there's gonna be a ton of grads on here who say "make the most of it" but honestly the only way to do that *without getting disenrolled* is to make it a complete joke to everyone involved. That being said, I'm all ears, so if you have some specific ideas besides "do what you can" or "be creative" then I'd be happy to hear them!

There's also probably going to be a few "I'm a grad from 1812, and these changes are all good because I never utilized them in my AF career" or "I'm was a fighter pilot, I never went to USAFA, but basically everything you guys have been doing for like 70 years doesn't make sense," but there is a TON of VALUABLE experience gained from creating an artificially stressful environment. And maybe people find the "When we're at war" mantra corny af, but to say that a likely near-peer conflict with China or Russia will not be stress-inducing, or that many of these traditions will not be valuable, is utterly ridiculous. I recently spoke to a grad who was a POW in Vietnam. He said that his experiences during his freshman year were crucial to his survival while a Prisoner of War. No, we're not at war right now, but we ought to be prepared for stuff that happened in our military's past. Sorry for anyone that was triggered by my saying "POW" or "Prisoner of War", btw.

General Moga, our previous highly-respected Commandant, said the following about doing hard things at USAFA: "Every cadet that leaves this institution, regardless of ending up in an operational career field or not, has to understand and embrace the warfighter state of mind — the warfighter mentality. Whether they end up in combat or supporting those who do, that mentality will serve them well throughout their careers and throughout their lives." At the end of the day, everything that the USAFA of yesterday did for CW, especially for the C4Cs, helped them build this warfighter mentality. It's sad to see a lot of this go away for the current freshmen.
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100% agree with all you stated. My cadet is in the class of 27' and their experience is nothing like they expected nor wanted. In kinds words, they have stated it is easy and soft. Kid gloves all the time. They were looking forward to REC and being in that stressful 3 day environment. As a combat VET who served in the Infantry in Iraq and Afghanistan, "We don't rise to the level of our expectations; we fall to the level of our Training"
 
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