A discussion about submariners šŸ¬ āš“ļø

justdoit19

justdoit19

Proud parent of an ANG, USNA X2, and a MidSib
5-Year Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
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Discussion about the aviation pipeline process and challenges pops up every now again. Stories about ā€˜back in the dayā€™. General discussion about the community.

How about Subs? How did you end up there? Memories? Nuke school, boat assignment, post AD employment, etc, etc.

Iā€™m seeing a lot more attention to Subs out there (ie: Army-Navy, with a nod to the community). More recruitment type hype. But maybe Iā€™m just noticing it more.

Parents, whatā€™s your perspective?
 
justdoit19 said:
Discussion about the aviation pipeline process and challenges pops up every now again. Stories about ā€˜back in the dayā€™. General discussion about the community.

How about Subs? How did you end up there? Memories? Nuke school, boat assignment, post AD employment, etc, etc.

Iā€™m seeing a lot more attention to Subs out there (ie: Army-Navy, with a nod to the community). More recruitment type hype. But maybe Iā€™m just noticing it more.

Parents, whatā€™s your perspective?
Click to expand...
What do you want to know?

My submariner son went to USNA with plans to be a pilot and majored in Aero. Protramid changed his view
and he switched to subs as a 2/C. Graduated just outside the top 100 while being a Varsity Athlete. Went to
Nuke School, then Prototype and finally sub school. Did well at all of them and went to first boat - a 688 class
out of Hawaii. Qualified, deployed a few times, held a couple of jobs on the boat and finally transferred off after
over 3 yrs on board. Selected as an Olmstead Scholar, he first went through _________ Language school at _________
and then moved to _____________ (european country) for graduate school. Finally came back and went to Submarine
Advanced and a tour as a Department Head on a boomer out of Kings Bay. Did a number of boomer patrols and then
transferred to "shore duty" which is overseas along with his family where he is currently serving. In a few months, he'll
be heading back to the US for some schools en route to XO of a Sub.
 
In my corporate career, I worked alongside a former submariner (USNA grad). He told me he loved the job, the boats, the crews. So I asked him why he decided to leave. He said the revelation came when he was underway and working near the reactor, taking care of something that needed taking care of. "I was sitting there and I looked down and saw that I was straddling the _____. And it was then that I knew it was time to get out." šŸ¤”

He went on to get a Top 5 MBA and is now a CFO. When we worked together, at the end of a particular meeting, he said about one of his subordinates: "That was completely unsat." I realized then that you can take the person out of the military, but you can't take the military out of the person.
 
In mid career I jumped from Private Practice litigation to work in the aerospace/electronics world. figured Iā€™d be happier walking around w/o a chip on my shoulder and pissed off every day. Working for a large aerospace & electronics company I ended up, at one time or another, with Navair, Navsea, Marine Corps, USAF, ā€¦..and some 3 three letters (including operators Pilots, SOW, Ground, Subs and Intel)

At one point I was providing ā€œengineering day care", (legal support) for an advanced systems product/technology development group. It was a smallish bunch and I got to do some business Development-ish stuff a few times when the C suite thought a deal was in the wind. I ended up supporting a couple of early JWID events helping to demo a new secure remote access technology during a JWID conference. We Demo'd aboard the Stennis, a remote at Camp-Lejeune and on an SSN ( the Houston I think) with an adventure away from the dock for a few hours on the SSN. (YES!!)

I vividly remember this:
The engineer I was working with for the Demo had an absurd amount of gear to bring aboard, (by todays standards). When we came aboard The Stennis we were given quick complex directions to the section where we would demo our stuff. Each of us was carrying about 60 lbs, but it wasnā€™t the weight it was the bulk including an old style monitors and CPU up and down ships ladders. I never heard anybody say ā€œcan I get you guys some help with that stuffā€. When we got lost in the bowels of the Stennis it took awhile to find anyone who could (or wanted to) direct us to our demo-location. When we did the demo we had great/interested officers and Es in attendance, but our audience was limited to direct users of our kind of system (Os and Es).

The next day we approached the SSN for our demo. The Officer who greeted at the dock told us to leave our gear top side until we got a look at our Demo location. We came down the ladder and were met by a 20year old(ish) E. He introduced himself and asked if he could help us. I said he could direct me to the area where our 'Remote Access ComSec Demo' would be conducted. ā€œI'm sorry sir I donā€™t know where that is, Iā€™m not involved with that particluar demonstration. If you will stay here I will find someone who does know". 2 minutes elapse and this young E appears with a Chief who takes us our location on the Sub. This E tags along with us, helps us bring our equipment down and get it powered up. Then he just hangs around helping as we set up and test the Demo. Ultimately, I thanked the guy and told him we were good if he had other stuff to do. This young man says: ā€œSir the Chief told me a little about what you will be demonstraighting. It's not my area, but it sounds interesting, unless Iā€™m needed somewhere else Iā€™d like to learn some more about your system if you donā€™t mindā€.

Every single Officer and Enlisted I met on that sub demonstrated the same commitment to task, work ethic, and intellectual curiosity. I did notice that Officers were less immediately engaged in discussions, they hung back a bit letting the Eā€™s take the lead in developing an understanding of our product, (like a no-nonsense coach, taking any opportunity to observe the performance of their team doing something out side of the usual routine). That crew made the sub feel like a "living thingā€. I mean you could smell the ā€œteamā€ on that boatā€¦ā€¦ā€¦probably even more after a few weeks under water šŸ˜¬. Seriously, it was memorable, the crew I mean.

Taking nothing away from:
The surface warfare guys on the Stennis (DD billeted with SWOs on the Linchon and Nimitz), or the pilots I grew up around, (USAF), or USN pilots I worked with/for on the E6 and the A6 rewing programs, or the retired pilots I worked with in the private sector. Every Marine Iā€™ve met (save 1) defined the term "mission driven". The Army Coms/Intel guys at Fort Huachuca smart and HARD. USCG pilots & aviation support folks who ā€œfly on-mission" every day. The USCG small boat sailors who braved Bristol Bay to keep college kids like me safe as we worked the summer salmon runs . Its a long list of good people, but when someone bothers to ask this old guy which service I have been most impressed by the answer is always the sub-guys.

My DD has had an interesting run in the USN so far. I think sheā€™s worked with just about everybody (in terms of service types) in a very short period of time time. She likes pilots, but she often rolls her eyes when she talks about them. SOā€™s are her favorites. I think her quote runs something like this.

ā€œWe are all in a peace time Navy Dad,..[she grumbles about this often]... except for the Sub Guys. They are basically "at war" every time they go out. They are doing really important stuff all the time; but youā€™ll never hear em brag about it. Kind of the oppposite of pilots [insert eye roll] "

I think sheā€™d endorse the following characterization

Pilots Sexy:



Submarine Officer Sexy:

Really glad to you posted this 19, Iā€™ve been wanting to express these thoughts to you for a couple of months now.
 
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Just Dad said:
In mid career I jumped from Private Practice litigation to work in the aerospace/electronics world. figured Iā€™d be happier walking around w/o a chip on my shoulder and pissed off every day. Working for a large aerospace & electronics company I ended up, at one time or another, with Navair, Navsea, Marine Corps, USAF, ā€¦..and some 3 three letters (including operators Pilots, SOW, Ground, Subs and Intel)

At one point I was providing ā€œengineering day care", (legal support) for an advanced systems product/technology development group. It was a smallish bunch and I got to do some business Development-ish stuff a few times when the C suite thought a deal was in the wind. I ended up supporting a couple of early JWID events helping to demo a new secure remote access technology during a JWID conference. We Demo'd aboard the Stennis, a remote at Camp-Lejeune and on an SSN ( the Houston I think) with an adventure away from the dock for a few hours on the SSN. (YES!!)

I vividly remember this:
The engineer I was working with for the Demo had an absurd amount of gear to bring aboard, (by todays standards). When we came aboard The Stennis we were given quick complex directions to the section where we would demo our stuff. Each of us was carrying about 60 lbs, but it wasnā€™t the weight it was the bulk including an old style monitors and CPU up and down ships ladders. I never heard anybody say ā€œcan I get you guys some help with that stuffā€. When we got lost in the bowels of the Stennis it took awhile to find anyone who could (or wanted to) direct us to our demo-location. When we did the demo we had great/interested officers and Es in attendance, but our audience was limited to direct users of our kind of system (Os and Es).

The next day we approached the SSN for our demo. The Officer who greeted at the dock told us to leave our gear top side until we got a look at our Demo location. We came down the ladder and were met by a 20year old(ish) E. He introduced himself and asked if he could help us. I said he could direct me to the area where our 'Remote Access ComSec Demo' would be conducted. ā€œI'm sorry sir I donā€™t know where that is, Iā€™m not involved with that particluar demonstration. If you will stay here I will find someone who does know". 2 minutes elapse and this young E appears with a Chief who takes us our location on the Sub. This E tags along with us, helps us bring our equipment down and get it powered up. Then he just hangs around helping as we set up and test the Demo. Ultimately, I thanked the guy and told him we were good if he had other stuff to do. This young man says: ā€œSir the Chief told me a little about what you will be demonstraighting. It's not my area, but it sounds interesting, unless Iā€™m needed somewhere else Iā€™d like to learn some more about your system if you donā€™t mindā€.

Every single Officer and Enlisted I met on that sub demonstrated the same commitment to task, work ethic, and intellectual curiosity. I did notice that Officers were less immediately engaged in discussions, they hung back a bit letting the Eā€™s take the lead in developing an understanding of our product, (like a no-nonsense coach, taking any opportunity to observe the performance of their team doing something out side of the usual routine). That crew made the sub feel like a "living thingā€. I mean you could smell the ā€œteamā€ on that boatā€¦ā€¦ā€¦probably even more after a few weeks under water šŸ˜¬. Seriously, it was memorable, the crew I mean.

Taking nothing away from:
The surface warfare guys on the Stennis (DD billeted with SWOs on the Linchon and Nimitz), or the pilots I grew up around, (USAF), or USN pilots I worked with/for on the E6 and the A6 rewing programs, or the retired pilots I worked with in the private sector. Every Marine Iā€™ve met (save 1) defined the term "mission driven". The Army Coms/Intel guys at Fort Huachuca smart and HARD. USCG pilots & aviation support folks who ā€œfly on-mission" every day. The USCG small boat sailors who braved Bristol Bay to keep college kids like me safe as we worked the summer salmon runs . Its a long list of good people, but when someone bothers to ask this old guy which service I have been most impressed by the answer is always the sub-guys.

My DD has had an interesting run in the USN so far. I think sheā€™s worked with just about everybody (in terms of service types) in a very short period of time time. She likes pilots, but she often rolls her eyes when she talks about them. SOā€™s are her favorites. I think her quote runs something like this.

ā€œWe are all in a peace time Navy Dad,..[she grumbles about this often]... except for the Sub Guys. They are basically "at war" every time they go out. They are doing really important stuff all the time; but youā€™ll never hear em brag about it. Kind of the oppposite of pilots [insert eye roll] "

I think sheā€™d endorse the following characterization

Pilots Sexy:



Submarine Officer Sexy:

Really glad to you posted this 19, Iā€™ve been wanting to express these thoughts to you for a couple of months now.
Click to expand...
I had to wait to read thisā€¦.due to length. I knew I needed a few minutes of uninterrupted time from the demands of my grand kiddos.

My allergies are hugely full blown at the moment.
 
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FutureAcademyDad? said:
If you can qualify for Subs out of USNA, then you have done well. If you were drafted into Subs, then you can be proud.
Click to expand...
When did they start "drafting" into the sub service? When I was in as a Nuke ET/RO (admittedly a long time back now, from '89 - 97), we were an entirely voluntary force...you had to request and sign up for it...there were no forced positions.

Either way, one of the best positions to be in.
 
You generally have to have subs as one of your service selections to be chosen. According to my kid, and it depends on who you ask, the "draft" doesn't really exist year to year.
 
DnagerFromBelow said:
When did they start "drafting" into the sub service? When I was in as a Nuke ET/RO (admittedly a long time back now, from '89 - 97), we were an entirely voluntary force...you had to request and sign up for it...there were no forced positions.
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True for Enlisted folks. . . .

USNA had off again / on again drafts for Nuc Power/subs since at least the late 70's. I had friends in USNA79 who were drafted to go and interview with Admiral Rickover and my cousin in USNA80 was also a Rickover draftee.
 
DnagerFromBelow said:
When did they start "drafting" into the sub service? When I was in as a Nuke ET/RO (admittedly a long time back now, from '89 - 97), we were an entirely voluntary force...you had to request and sign up for it...there were no forced positions.

Either way, one of the best positions to be in.
Click to expand...
Technically there isnā€™t a DRAFT bc each person has to eventually affirm. But, the reality is that some are pulled into it based upon whatever criteria, bc if you qualify (ie:gpa based is part of it), you are required to list it.

If you qualify for nuke option, you have to put it down on your sheet. Even WAY down. If not enough early select, or request it as a top choice which Navy tries to service assign a #1 or #2 request, they have to bring in others. I heard there were around 30 early selected this year, and 60 ā€˜draftedā€™. My son was one of them.

Itā€™s not a draft bc these kids can say no. Or fail the exams on purpose. They then go through service assignment again. 4 months after regular firstie assignments occur. So ship selection has happened. Aviation slots are full. Someone who declines will have to go somewhere there is a spot open.

So, itā€™s a gamble to say ā€˜noā€™. I do know one of my Firsties buddies who failed his tests on purpose, and was assigned NFO. Even with failing his exams, he was offered a chance to retest but he said no.

So, is it a draft? Or isnā€™t it a draft? About 60 this year were pulled in (30 last year) Some got on bored easier than others, with their 3rd, 4th or 5th ā€˜choiceā€™.

BTW, my guy went into the interview undecided. It literally was an ā€˜at the momentā€™ decision. But he accepted what was asked of him. Iā€™m very, very proud of him. It involves letting go of something he has worked hard for. Accepting leadership billets and ECAā€™s to set himself on a path he was passionate and excited about. Letting go of a dream, and accepting a Big Navy ask.

Semper gumby. I know he will give it his all and most likely fall in love with the path set before him. It IS an honor. Navyā€™s nuke program drafts the best and the brightest, who have the aptitude to learn and problem solve tough subject matter, and think on their feet. And ā€œNavy's nuclear program is considered one of the most highly respected and challenging in the worldā€.

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, itā€™s a duck. Or draft. The important thing, for those kids in the military, is to be open to the path. The SAā€™s train them up well for this.
 
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justdoit19 said:
Technically there isnā€™t a DRAFT bc each person has to eventually affirm. But, the reality is that some are pulled into it based upon whatever criteria, bc if you qualify (ie:gpa based is part of it), you are required to list it.

If you qualify for nuke option, you have to put it down on your sheet. Even WAY down. If not enough early select, or request it as a top choice which Navy tries to service assign a #1 or #2 request, they have to bring in others. I heard there were around 30 early selected this year, and 60 ā€˜draftedā€™. My son was one of them.

Itā€™s not a draft bc these kids can say no. Or fail the exams on purpose. They then go through service assignment again. 4 months after regular firstie assignments occur. So ship selection has happened. Aviation slots are full. Someone who declines will have to go somewhere there is a spot open.

So, itā€™s a gamble to say ā€˜noā€™. I do know one of my Firsties buddies who failed his tests on purpose, and was assigned NFO. Even with failing his exams, he was offered a chance to retest but he said no.

So, is it a draft? Or isnā€™t it a draft? About 60 this year were pulled in. Some got on bored easier than others, with their 3rd, 4th or 5th ā€˜choiceā€™.
Click to expand...
Did not know that. Learn something new every day.

DD was offered both USAFA and USNA - she chose USNA and is talking about Nuke (she has her PPL and I definitely tried to talk her into going avaiator, but I suppose the apple doesn't fall far from the tree).

Certainly will be an interesting next 4 years.
 
DnagerFromBelow said:
Did not know that. Learn something new every day.

DD was offered both USAFA and USNA - she chose USNA and is talking about Nuke (she has her PPL and I definitely tried to talk her into going avaiator, but I suppose the apple doesn't fall far from the tree).

Certainly will be an interesting next 4 years.
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lol Iā€™m a BGO and didnā€™t know this. I have an older son who graduated from USNA and didnā€™t know this. I do now. We are always learning.

Tell her the signing bonus was doubled this year. To 30k. There are also resigning bonuses.

If she wants it and qualifies, she has a very good chance. The head of the entire nuclear navy has the final say, after an in person interview. No pressure šŸ˜‚
 
justdoit19 said:
lol Iā€™m a BGO and didnā€™t know this. I have an older son who graduated from USNA and didnā€™t know this. I do now. We are always learning.

Tell her the signing bonus was doubled this year. To 30k. There are also resigning bonuses.

If she wants it and qualifies, she has a very good chance. The head of the entire nuclear navy has the final say, after an in person interview. No pressure šŸ˜‚
Click to expand...
Lol...I will make her keenly aware.
 
justdoit19 said:
lol Iā€™m a BGO and didnā€™t know this. I have an older son who graduated from USNA and didnā€™t know this. I do now. We are always learning.

Tell her the signing bonus was doubled this year. To 30k. There are also resigning bonuses.

If she wants it and qualifies, she has a very good chance. The head of the entire nuclear navy has the final say, after an in person interview. No pressure šŸ˜‚
Click to expand...
The other thing that is ā€˜attractiveā€™ is that itā€™s the only community where the AD payback period begins the day of commissioning (is my understandingā€¦SWO used to as well but ā€˜23 was the last year for SWO). By the time you are through school, and training, it kind of seems that there are only a few deployment years left on the AD payback.
 
justdoit19 said:
The other thing that is ā€˜attractiveā€™ is that itā€™s the only community where the AD payback period begins the day of commissioning (is my understandingā€¦SWO used to as well but ā€˜23 was the last year for SWO). By the time you are through school, and training, it kind of seems that there are only a few deployment years left on the AD payback.
Click to expand...
Active Duty payback for SWOs starts at commissioning. If you know of another date, please provide a reference. Many/most Baby SWOs are aboard their ships within a few months after graduation
 
OldRetSWO said:
Active Duty payback for SWOs starts at commissioning. If you know of another date, please provide a reference. Many/most Baby SWOs are aboard their ships within a few months after graduation
Click to expand...
My ensign and my firstie both told me that the payback for SWO changed to after graduation from SWO school. That it changed from date of commissioning with ā€˜22, and that ā€˜23 was grandfathered in. So, beginning with ā€˜24, AD payback for SWOā€™s begins upon graduating from SWO school. Is that called BDOC?

I donā€™t have a reference to cite.
 
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