Rumors About Academy vs Other Commissioning Sources

T

TheLaughingCow

5-Year Member
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I've heard 2 rumors about coming from the academy.

1) Upon retirement, we get the 4 years of the Academy added onto the pension. For example, retiring at 20 years gets you 24 years worth of pension. However, retiring at under 20 years still gets you nothing, even if you've been in the Air Force for over 20 years counting your Academy experience. (I.E. retiring after commissioning 19 years ago gets you nothing, even if you started the Academy 23 years ago).

2) Academy grads are "guaranteed" 20 years of service and can't be kicked out except for bad conduct. Whereas ROTC and OTS could be laid off if the Air Force draws down.

I don't think either of these things are true, but some pretty knowledgeable people have said that they are true. Can anyone point me to an AFI or other official document that would help me verify this information one way or the other?
 
Your correct. Neither is true.

I can't speak to years being added on for retirement, but the other comments you heard apply only to the old retirement system. Now the military uses 401Ks like the rest of the world. If you do stay 20 years there is a bump but you no longer have to stay 20 to get a pension.

No commissioned officer is guaranteed 20 years of service. No commissioned officer is immune from a draw down. The military either promotes you within a certain amount of time, or you're out. Performance is all the counts.... just like the business world.
 
The Service Academy years and AD time can count toward Federal civil service retirement, but the SA years do not count for AD military retirement. Some state, city and county retirement calculators may do the same.
 
The first is true. The four years spent here count as federal service but not towards the twenty years needed for retirement. However, once you reach twenty and retire you are treated as if you were in the military for 24 years.
For the second that is no longer true. When you promote from captain to major you not only switch from company grade to field grade officer but also from reserve officer to regular officer meaning you are protected from leaving active duty should a reduction in force happen. It used to be that academy grads are regular officers their entire career and ROTC and OTS entered as reserve officers but that is no longer the case. We now compete to become regular officers like everyone else when going from O-3 to O-4.
 
kinnem said:
Your correct. Neither is true.

I can't speak to years being added on for retirement, but the other comments you heard apply only to the old retirement system. Now the military uses 401Ks like the rest of the world. If you do stay 20 years there is a bump but you no longer have to stay 20 to get a pension.

No commissioned officer is guaranteed 20 years of service. No commissioned officer is immune from a draw down. The military either promotes you within a certain amount of time, or you're out. Performance is all the counts.... just like the business world.
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"you no longer have to stay 20 to get a pension" That's not true. The DoD has been using the Thrift Savings Plan since around 2001 (the 401k). The difference with the Blended Retirement System is that the government will now match up to five percent of your base pay per month into the TSP (government matching only goes into the Traditional side of the TSP, not the Roth). You will not receive a pension with under 20 years TIS with the BRS. You will receive a pension just like the old retirement system (called the "High 3" Retirement Plan), but the difference is this: with the BRS you will only be getting 40% of your base pay as opposed to 50% of your base pay with the High 3.
 
dcollord98 said:
The first is true. The four years spent here count as federal service but not towards the twenty years needed for retirement. However, once you reach twenty and retire you are treated as if you were in the military for 24 years.
For the second that is no longer true. When you promote from captain to major you not only switch from company grade to field grade officer but also from reserve officer to regular officer meaning you are protected from leaving active duty should a reduction in force happen. It used to be that academy grads are regular officers their entire career and ROTC and OTS entered as reserve officers but that is no longer the case. We now compete to become regular officers like everyone else when going from O-3 to O-4.
Click to expand...

For number two... where are you getting this information? I have seen some old threads about this topic but according to the USAFA website, "You will accept an appointment and serve as a commissioned officer in the Air Force for at least eight years after graduation, five of which must be active duty and the remainder can be served as inactive reserve."
 
WinstonWolfePF said:
"you no longer have to stay 20 to get a pension" That's not true. The DoD has been using the Thrift Savings Plan since around 2001 (the 401k). The difference with the Blended Retirement System is that the government will now match up to five percent of your base pay per month into the TSP (government matching only goes into the Traditional side of the TSP, not the Roth). You will not receive a pension with under 20 years TIS with the BRS. You will receive a pension just like the old retirement system (called the "High 3" Retirement Plan), but the difference is this: with the BRS you will only be getting 40% of your base pay as opposed to 50% of your base pay with the High 3.
Click to expand...

I was trying to keep it simple. The 401K system is a retirement system, or so Congress intended. The match is no different (except percentage) that the rest of the business world uses. Your technically correct that you will not receive a traditional pension unless you stay 20 years, but any additional funds at that point are the "bump" I was referring to. Guess I should have been more explicit. Can new officers even choose High 3 anymore? I thought they were all locked into the new system.
 
WinstonWolfePF said:
For number two... where are you getting this information? I have seen some old threads about this topic but according to the USAFA website, "You will accept an appointment and serve as a commissioned officer in the Air Force for at least eight years after graduation, five of which must be active duty and the remainder can be served as inactive reserve."
Click to expand...

Whether your a reserve officer or regular officer has nothing to do with whether one is on active duty. It sole references the type of commission one has.
 
kinnem said:
WinstonWolfePF said:
"you no longer have to stay 20 to get a pension" That's not true. The DoD has been using the Thrift Savings Plan since around 2001 (the 401k). The difference with the Blended Retirement System is that the government will now match up to five percent of your base pay per month into the TSP (government matching only goes into the Traditional side of the TSP, not the Roth). You will not receive a pension with under 20 years TIS with the BRS. You will receive a pension just like the old retirement system (called the "High 3" Retirement Plan), but the difference is this: with the BRS you will only be getting 40% of your base pay as opposed to 50% of your base pay with the High 3.
Click to expand...

I was trying to keep it simple. The 401K system is a retirement system, or so Congress intended. The match is no different (except percentage) that the rest of the business world uses. Your technically correct that you will not receive a traditional pension unless you stay 20 years, but any additional funds at that point are the "bump" I was referring to. Guess I should have been more explicit. Can new officers even choose High 3 anymore? I thought they were all locked into the new system.
Click to expand...

As of 2018, everybody entering the DoD is automatically enrolled into the BRS and will immediately start receiving 1% of their base pay contributed by the government into the TSP. The only outliers you will see here are people who were prior enlisted and chose to stay with the High 3. Everybody who is in right now has all of 2018 to decide which one to go with, and prior-enlisted cadets entering USAFA this year will have a period of time after they graduate from USAFA to decide which system they want to go with (I think it's six months.. might be a year). I assume that all non-prior service Cadets at USAFA right now will automatically be enrolled in the BRS since they can't contribute to the TSP at all yet (so I've heard).

And I get what you were saying, I just didn't want to give anybody the wrong idea. At the end of the day, with the BRS you do get at least some contribution from the government towards retirement if you get out before 20 years... Even though you can still contribute to the TSP even if you do not enroll in the BRS.

And I admittedly don't know a lot about reserve vs regular officers.. I'll have to look into that more.
 
Going with BRS seems like a no brainer to me, but that's just me I guess. DS went BRS. It's a bit irritating because they keep sending his statements here. I just put them in the circular file since I assume he can keep up with it online.
 
kinnem said:
Going with BRS seems like a no brainer to me, but that's just me I guess. DS went BRS. It's a bit irritating because they keep sending his statements here. I just put them in the circular file since I assume he can keep up with it online.
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Depends on what your priorities are I suppose. If you're planning on staying in for 20 years, you're looking at around $1000 less per month from your pension, and let's not forget that you can't start making withdraws from your TSP until age 59 1/2. That's 20 years of missing out on 1k/month for some people.. 240k is nothing to scoff at. The BRS is a no-brainer if you intend to leave before 20, and it is a good insurance plan.

At the end of the day, the DoD came up with this plan to save them money, so there are always two sides to the story.
 
Academy time does not count for military retirement calculations, but can count for some other federal, state, and municipal systems (aka "2nd retirement").

Academy grads are treated like those of any other commissioning source, once they are on active duty. "Up or out" promotions, force reductions, and discipline all apply.
 
TheLaughingCow said:
2) Academy grads are "guaranteed" 20 years of service and can't be kicked out except for bad conduct. Whereas ROTC and OTS could be laid off if the Air Force draws down.
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Just ask anyone on active duty in the late 80's/early 90's about that one. Military was offering officers fairly small lump sum payments to resign or risk getting RIF'd with nothing.
 
jl123 said:
Just ask anyone on active duty in the late 80's/early 90's about that one. Military was offering officers fairly small lump sum payments to resign or risk getting RIF'd with nothing.
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There were some heart-breakers. People who had 17 years of service, being separated before retirement eligible at 20, and not in the “safe zone” of >18 years. CO’s coming over to my office on the admiral’s staff, completely upset that their top two lieutenants, who just happened to have USNR commissions and not Regular commissions, and having completed their obligated service, were not being offered orders, even though they wanted to stay AD, and had gotten the “thank you for your service” letter. Meanwhile, they were stuck with some mediocre lieutenants with Regular commissions, who had more protection.
 
dcollord98 said:
However, once you reach twenty and retire you are treated as if you were in the military for 24 years.
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This is ABSOLUTELY FALSE. I've heard this old wives tale for decades and can't emphasize enough that it is false. The day after you have twenty years and retire, you will have twenty years. If you stay in for twenty two years, you'll have twenty two. The military does NOT give you back those four years of retirement credit toward a military pension EVER.

Now, if you become a civil servant, you can "buy back" those years by paying a percentage of what the academy paid you (believe me, they can find the records) and then those four can become part of the civil service pension and leave benefit calculations. The academy does not pay you much so these four years of credit are pretty cheap to buy.
 
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