Enlisting and reapplying

OP don’t know your state reserve/national guard programs are, but those could also be an options potentially for funding your college. Some states have great benefits!!
 
Thank you for stating enlisted personnel are the backbone of our armed services, I appreciate it and agree. However, I stated crap on enlisting not enlisted personnel. Freudian slip?
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Enlisted personnel enlist. So no Freudian slip. I’m fully supportive of people enlisting. It is a great opportunity for many young people for many reasons. My father was enlisted USMC in WWII, so I get it.

I’m generally not supportive of people who want to be an officer trying to do so via the enlisted route - only because it’s not usually successful for reasons often outside of the individual’s control. Enlist because you want to serve as an enlisted person, not because you believe it’s a viable, let alone easy, path to becoming an officer. Also, if someone says they really want to attend college right out of h.s., enlisting probably isn’t their best option.

I fully agree there are lousy officers. And that’s unfortunate. There are also lousy enlisted personnel. Lousy lawyers and plumbers and CPAs and real estate agents. I’ve yet to find any profession that lacks any lousy members. Thankfully, their numbers are usually few.
 
Grapefruit said:
I am still waiting to hear back from USNA with a letter of appointment. My application is complete and I received a nomination from AR-04 MOC. While I am waiting I was thinking about joining a Marine or Navy Delayed Entry Program so that if I get rejected I will have something to fall back on. My plan if I don't get accepted is to keep on applying until they tell me I can't anymore. Has anyone else considered or went through this same pathway to gain acceptance to USNA?
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What I'm doing for a backup plan is applying to USAFA and USCGA and if I don't get into USNA this year, I will attend one of those and just reapply until I can't anymore. I was also thinking of the enlisted route, but I wasn't sure about the three years I would need to serve and if that would affect my chances of getting into USNA or anything.
 
The decision to enlist could very well be the end of your shots at USNA, and you might not see a commission of any kind for the better part of a decade. Candidates considering enlistment need to understand that. You don't get to decide that you can apply for an officer program after a couple of years.

Age cutoff is 23. How much time do you spend in A and C schools before you even get to your first command? 90 days of cranking, 6 months of DCPO before you really even get your bearings about your own rate or work for your own chain of command. How long before you're qualified in rate? How long before you get ESWS? In many commands those are pre-requisites to even be considered for TA benefits and college programs like NCPACE.

What's the manpower look like for your division? Is the CO going to endorse and take a billet gap if the ship is undermanned? We can assert that a good one should, and only a bad one wouldn't, but that's not something that will be in your control at all.

Nuke is a common exception because power school has a well-established precedent and the willingness to send candidates to USNA. Not every command will be supportive. And you have next to no control over what kind of command you will be in. And if we get to a place where Naval Reactors decides they no longer afford to lose even untrained enlisted nukes to officer programs, that precedent and willingness can change.

Candidates need to understand it is pretty regular for enlisted personnel to spend 6-8 years to finish a four-year degree piecemeal during multiple deployments before being eligible for OCS. STA-21 is known jokingly as a nuke accession program, but it's not that far off.

Enlisted to officer is path with a lot of variables that need to align, many of which are entirely outside of your control. Going NROTC as a college programmer or applying to OCS as a civilian is a clearer path where the candidate has much more control over their own destiny.

We hear all good stories here about successful enlisted candidates. No one hears about how many E-3s and E-4s get told that the command cannot support losing a critical billet for a special program at this time. It might be easier to get out, get a degree with the GI bill, apply to OCS as a civilian, and end up back in as an officer than to deal with in-service procurement.

If you want to enlist, go in with the expectation that you might not be an officer at all. Enlistment is not to be viewed as a stepping stone to officer.
 
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Old Enlisted Marine said:
Thank you for stating enlisted personnel are the backbone of our armed services, I appreciate it and agree. However, I stated crap on enlisting not enlisted personnel. Freudian slip?


There is good officers and bad officers just like there is good and bad enlisted. So to say, no officer craps on enlisted personnel is not an accurate statement. Just my observations and opinion over the past few years whenever someone mentions enlisting here people are quick to push the officer agenda. This is expected since this forum is designed for those looking for the officer path but there is nothing wrong with enlisting as long as you know what you are getting into.

I appreciate all the information here; it was of great assistance that ultimately resulted in my son receiving appointments to multiple academies. He is currently at USNA 25 and I could not be prouder of him.

The military officer / enlisted paths are much like those civilians paths that are chosen. Should I go to college and become a teacher or should I go to trade school and become a plumber. Both in my opinion very admirable careers. We have too many people attending college now because that is what their parents want not what they want and in the process stack up substantial debt.

I do not believe there is a right or wrong answer here just facts and information that need to be passed on so educated decisions can be made.
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ooorah
 
usna1985 said:
Enlisted personnel enlist. So no Freudian slip. I’m fully supportive of people enlisting. It is a great opportunity for many young people for many reasons. My father was enlisted USMC in WWII, so I get it.

I’m generally not supportive of people who want to be an officer trying to do so via the enlisted route - only because it’s not usually successful for reasons often outside of the individual’s control. Enlist because you want to serve as an enlisted person, not because you believe it’s a viable, let alone easy, path to becoming an officer. Also, if someone says they really want to attend college right out of h.s., enlisting probably isn’t their best option.

I fully agree there are lousy officers. And that’s unfortunate. There are also lousy enlisted personnel. Lousy lawyers and plumbers and CPAs and real estate agents. I’ve yet to find any profession that lacks any lousy members. Thankfully, their numbers are usually few.
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Not looking to get into an argument over enlisting, enlisted or enlist, I better not say irregardless or someones head will explode. I am very well aware I am not the most knowledgeable person on these forums however I do have an opinion. Just looking for some support and understanding. I have said this before here and will likely say it again.…..

Not sure how to help so I am just throwing this out there. With all the talk of declining recruitment and academy applications down we need to stand together undivided.

On a few occasion we have had people come here to the forums that do not neatly fit in with the majority of the others that regularly participate. I believe there is a need to offer them the proper support. This forum has a strong presence on the old interweb and they are directed here by major search engines when they look for information.

I understand that this forum is here for the purpose of gathering information to become an officer. It is a great resource that has provided me a lot of excellent information and most certainly contributed to my sons successful appointment to USNA. I am very proud of my enlisted service and would have loved to have had the opportunity to receive a commission or even just attend college. This was not a realistic possibility for me due to financial circumstances, support and my strong belief of avoiding debt. This is not a pity party my life turned out just great despite the lack of having a formal education beyond high school.

There is many people in the military that come from the bottom rung of the socioeconomic ladder. They grew up in dysfunctional families from bad parts of town. Sometimes addiction and abuse are an issue. The schools they come from are mediocre at best. They lack stability, support and assistance. Enlisting is their way out. It was mine and lead to a great life, which I continue to appreciate.

Those here that come from a good environment have a responsibility in my opinion to try to understand where those growing up without support, positive influencers and security are coming from. The benefits that came along with my service gave me the time and opportunity to work my way up the ladder. Life is good!

I write all this because enlisting is not bad. With all the resources out there on the internet there is no reason for a potential recruit not to fact check what the recruiter is telling them. No, I do not believe enlisting is the best way to the academy or commissioning but it may be their way. When passing on information as such there is a good way for this point to be made and a negative way. It is our responsibity to encourage rather than discourage. Put out the information without the twist. My kids were raised in a much better environment from the one I was raised in therefore giving them a different vantage point than the one I had at their age.

Some go enlisted because they want to and some because they have to and some because they did not research properly. Consider this, how would you like to receive this knowledge if you were in their shoes? This forum is great and a huge resource of information, however there is a lack of reliable similar forums for those choosing another route. They end up here looking for guidance, they may be over whelmed by the situation they are in.

Could you imagine trying to navigate the college or academy process lacking support? I am sure there are some here that have done it. BUT …….. I bet the majority had a strong support system. When those that come here looking for advise that does not fit neatly into the way you expect the road to be navigated think twice before you respond. You may be the one to make a difference in their life.

With recruiting not currently meeting the goals set for them, think just whom will be lead in an all-voluntary force if there is not volunteers.

I write this in hopes we can help someone in need of the not so normal assistance normally provided here. I will end this rant and get off my soapbox with a thank you for all the assistance I have received here
 
Yeah for me I am a first gen student so I have been navigating my future all by myself. I want to learn as much information as I can so I can make the most intelligent decision on my behalf. Thank you all for helping me!
 
Grapefruit said:
Yeah for me I am a first gen student so I have been navigating my future all by myself. I want to learn as much information as I can so I can make the most intelligent decision on my behalf. Thank you all for helping me!
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I am rooting for you and hope you get the appointment to USNA!!! I am so happy you came to the forum for guidance - I dont have the answers for you but I hope that you get the appointment. great job navigating this alone and getting the nomination!!! we are all here to help you!
 
Old Enlisted Marine said:
Not looking to get into an argument over enlisting, enlisted or enlist, I better not say irregardless or someones head will explode. I am very well aware I am not the most knowledgeable person on these forums however I do have an opinion. Just looking for some support and understanding. I have said this before here and will likely say it again.…..

Not sure how to help so I am just throwing this out there. With all the talk of declining recruitment and academy applications down we need to stand together undivided.

On a few occasion we have had people come here to the forums that do not neatly fit in with the majority of the others that regularly participate. I believe there is a need to offer them the proper support. This forum has a strong presence on the old interweb and they are directed here by major search engines when they look for information.

I understand that this forum is here for the purpose of gathering information to become an officer. It is a great resource that has provided me a lot of excellent information and most certainly contributed to my sons successful appointment to USNA. I am very proud of my enlisted service and would have loved to have had the opportunity to receive a commission or even just attend college. This was not a realistic possibility for me due to financial circumstances, support and my strong belief of avoiding debt. This is not a pity party my life turned out just great despite the lack of having a formal education beyond high school.

There is many people in the military that come from the bottom rung of the socioeconomic ladder. They grew up in dysfunctional families from bad parts of town. Sometimes addiction and abuse are an issue. The schools they come from are mediocre at best. They lack stability, support and assistance. Enlisting is their way out. It was mine and lead to a great life, which I continue to appreciate.

Those here that come from a good environment have a responsibility in my opinion to try to understand where those growing up without support, positive influencers and security are coming from. The benefits that came along with my service gave me the time and opportunity to work my way up the ladder. Life is good!

I write all this because enlisting is not bad. With all the resources out there on the internet there is no reason for a potential recruit not to fact check what the recruiter is telling them. No, I do not believe enlisting is the best way to the academy or commissioning but it may be their way. When passing on information as such there is a good way for this point to be made and a negative way. It is our responsibity to encourage rather than discourage. Put out the information without the twist. My kids were raised in a much better environment from the one I was raised in therefore giving them a different vantage point than the one I had at their age.

Some go enlisted because they want to and some because they have to and some because they did not research properly. Consider this, how would you like to receive this knowledge if you were in their shoes? This forum is great and a huge resource of information, however there is a lack of reliable similar forums for those choosing another route. They end up here looking for guidance, they may be over whelmed by the situation they are in.

Could you imagine trying to navigate the college or academy process lacking support? I am sure there are some here that have done it. BUT …….. I bet the majority had a strong support system. When those that come here looking for advise that does not fit neatly into the way you expect the road to be navigated think twice before you respond. You may be the one to make a difference in their life.

With recruiting not currently meeting the goals set for them, think just whom will be lead in an all-voluntary force if there is not volunteers.

I write this in hopes we can help someone in need of the not so normal assistance normally provided here. I will end this rant and get off my soapbox with a thank you for all the assistance I have received here
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^^^ Out of Right Field ^^^

This post should be on the site required reading list …
.
 
Hey @Grapefruit first, I can't believe anyone had ever claimed the screen name Grapefruit so congrats on that feat.

Second and possibly more important, you want to be a Marine and an officer with the main goal of carrying the title: US Marine.

Tell me what you think about this: Join the Marine Corps Reserve, earn the title, go to college and don't tell me you can't afford it. Loans work and you state you'll be 2.5 years away from a bachelor's so...

After boot camp and MOS school and you are settled in at college, visit the local Officer Selection Officer https://www.mcrc.marines.mil/Marine-Officer/Officer-Selection/ and get the ball rolling. All along of course you are researching and not just taking my word for it. Joining the Marines is a big decision regardless of accession route. There may be scholarship opportunities from the OSO based on my experience.

Go to PLC https://officer.marines.com/docs/oso/ocs/plc_information.pdf for two summers and become a 10 week wonder. Actually 12 weeks or 10 if you do the OCC course. Anyway, check it out. I can't remember the exact numbers but probably a third of Marine officers join via OCS.

DM me if you want to. I counsel and guide my students in the mysteries of college admissions and my son went to five colleges before he graduated so I've got that going for me.

Disclaimer: I'm just an internet person but am sincere in what I wrote and do have experience in these matters, but caveat emptor.
 
Hey G-Fruit, new to the forum, though because of our DS VERY familiar with it. You've been given some good information from the posters above. Good that you're looking into alternate plans, but don't give up on this one just yet. There's plenty of time for you speak with a recruiter down range. The Devil Doc's thoughts are solid. I served with an enlisted Marine (reserves), who after graduation from the U of A, commissioned and retired as a Lt.Col. a few years back. I told our DS if you're going to be a Marine, you're going to be a Marine. As it was mentioned above, we need good, smart, motivated youngsters in our military. If you've made it this far into the process, you'd be a recruiters dream, if you don't get the outcome you want, to choose a different path. You've got a big upside with options. Keep the faith, long way to go. We too are waiting on word for our USNA hopeful.
 
ARMARINE03 said:
Hey G-Fruit, new to the forum, though because of our DS VERY familiar with it. You've been given some good information from the posters above. Good that you're looking into alternate plans, but don't give up on this one just yet. There's plenty of time for you speak with a recruiter down range. The Devil Doc's thoughts are solid. I served with an enlisted Marine (reserves), who after graduation from the U of A, commissioned and retired as a Lt.Col. a few years back. I told our DS if you're going to be a Marine, you're going to be a Marine. As it was mentioned above, we need good, smart, motivated youngsters in our military. If you've made it this far into the process, you'd be a recruiters dream, if you don't get the outcome you want, to choose a different path. You've got a big upside with options. Keep the faith, long way to go. We too are waiting on word for our USNA hopeful.
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UofA as in Arkansas? I applied there and got in easily but they didn’t offer me enough money to make sense to attend there. They also didn’t have NROTC as they only have ROTC and AFTOTC
 
Grapefruit said:
UofA as in Arkansas? I applied there and got in easily but they didn’t offer me enough money to make sense to attend there. They also didn’t have NROTC as they only have ROTC and AFTOTC
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Yes, Arkansas. Our Marine went PLC. He made Cpl. during During Desert Storm, finished school and commissioned. These are twitchy times, nerve racking, but stay the course, head down, keep moving forward.
 
Grapefruit said:
Yeah for me I am a first gen student so I have been navigating my future all by myself. I want to learn as much information as I can so I can make the most intelligent decision on my behalf. Thank you all for helping me!
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I commend you for the work and research you are doing for your future. Reaching out for information is the only way you'll get it. Do you have college advisors at your school to help guide you? No doubt, wherever you land will be thankful to have you.
 
ARMARINE03 said:
Yes, Arkansas. Our Marine went PLC. He made Cpl. during During Desert Storm, finished school and commissioned. These are twitchy times, nerve racking, but stay the course, head down, keep moving forward.
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My plan B :D
 
PLC's a great program for those that want to be a Marine Officer, moreover, a Marine. We're a different bunch, not many would argue with that, it really is a calling for many of us. I served with a terrific group of officers, all from earning their commision through PLC, including the Mustanger mentioned. Those that want that title should have PLC somewhere in their alphabet soup of future plans of their present plans don't work out. You all have options.
 
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