Any idea what happens if there is a lapse in appropriations??

IronmanDaremo

IronmanDaremo

What, me worry?
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Layman's terms - Government shutdown.

I know I don't report to work until there is an approved appropriation for our Agency. But what happens to the Academy? I don't think they are considered "essential personnel," so do they have to go home or something??

Just curious, as there may be a good possibility of it this round due to infighting within a certain broken party. It sounds as if there is not a good taste for even a short term CR.
 
I was at the AF Academy when the government shut down during the Clinton administration. All of the military personnel stayed, and we continued on without any of the civilians (no cooks, waiters, cleaning staff, civilian teachers, etc). Cadets cooked the meals (other than those they brought in from local fast food) and cleaned everything. It was an experience, but we made it through OK. Kind of like the real military...
 
I know that back in 2018-19, we had 35 days we were shut down. I don't know what happened to the military academies then.

Geez, a bunch of kids used to getting pampered having to make their own food? What is the world coming to??!! ;)
 
The article posted above does a good job of covering the impact. Military members cover down. For USNA, I believe food services are mostly contracted. So between the military member supply teams and contract services, things continue to run. Also, food services could be deemed essential. A lot of things vary on if services are contacted versus government. The uniformed folks will help to cover down on services which are normally run by government civilians.
 
During the previous closures the Coast Guard was outside the DoD and was not covered by legislation protecting the other services. In 2019, for example, the entire service went without pay for over a month while the service tried to assemble money to cover payroll. There were prominent stories of members lining up at food shelves while continuing their regular duties. This has since been addressed by changes to federal law.

www.military.com

Bill Would Boost Coast Guard Benefits, Pay Members During Federal Shutdowns

The Senate's version of the fiscal 2023 Coast Guard authorization bill contains a number of provisions aimed at recruiting and retaining members.
www.military.com www.military.com
 
IronmanDaremo said:
Layman's terms - Government shutdown.

I know I don't report to work until there is an approved appropriation for our Agency. But what happens to the Academy? I don't think they are considered "essential personnel," so do they have to go home or something??

Just curious, as there may be a good possibility of it this round due to infighting within a certain broken party. It sounds as if there is not a good taste for even a short term CR.
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I was there for the 2013 shutdown. Civilian professors went home. Classes affected were canceled or covered by military instructors. I don't know if it's still true, but at the time USNA had about a 50/50 or maybe 60/40 military to civilian split for professors/lecturers, so it wasn't like the whole school stopped running, there were still plenty of classes that did business as usual.

The daily schedule was maintained, I think primarily for good order and discipline, and secondly to try to get some semblance of maintaining the academic program. MIDN still reported to scheduled class even if just to sit there and "self study". Company officers, SELs, and other commandant staff/admissions personnel (i.e. any available active duty military at USNA) monitored classes that couldn't be taught by instructors. Professors saw this coming and assigned various assignments and reading in advance to help keep things on track.

Drydock and steerage closed, but we still had food in King Hall. They were downgraded to rolling tray meals, but they managed to keep meal service as 'essential' at least. Not sure if it would have lasted, but the 2013 shutdown was pretty short. I do remember hearing that the supply department had stocked extra "boxed nasties" and MREs in case things got really hairy.
 
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Not from an official source, but I would expect some impacts (degradations) on the admissions front since the office is manned by civilian and military…for example admissions briefs might be curtailed, longer processing/review/confirmation timeline that applications are completed, etc. However, don’t foresee everything coming to a complete stop. I’m certain admissions will publicize any potential impacts (as necessary) to candidates via email and/or social media platforms. As they say…Semper Gumby!
 
I was essential and worked through many government shut downs. I don't miss the BS of everything depending on Congress to get it's act together. Usually, it ends quickly. The one time I would've been furloughed for a day, it ended before then. The SAs are different of course but it's still a lesson on what it's like to actually work for the Government.
 
It is time to end putting together omnibus bills that are crafted in secret. Break them up so people can see what is being approved in enough time to read them and understand them. End the pork, lobby influence, etc.
 
A1Janitor said:
It is time to end putting together omnibus bills that are crafted in secret. Break them up so people can see what is being approved in enough time to read them and understand them. End the pork, lobby influence, etc.
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And inflation! It’s embarrassing
 
retiredradar said:
I was essential and worked through many government shut downs. I don't miss the BS of everything depending on Congress to get it's act together. Usually, it ends quickly. The one time I would've been furloughed for a day, it ended before then. The SAs are different of course but it's still a lesson on what it's like to actually work for the Government.
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One of the best decisions I ever made was moving out of DC. Loved so many parts of the city, but these kinds of things and being surrounded 24x7 by politics and not being able to escape it was terrible.
 
What happens with USNA civilian varsity coaches during a shut down? When I was an on the clock fed they told us we had no choice we had to leave the building.

Essential who could stay was a very tiny group

Not only an ongoing fall season but lots of off season practice as well.

A military enlistment crisis, a total very long hold on senior military promotions, now a budget shut down that will impact training. How not to prepare for the next conflict.
 
Small Team Bacsi said:
What happens with USNA civilian varsity coaches during a shut down? When I was an on the clock fed they told us we had no choice we had to leave the building.

Essential who could stay was a very tiny group

Not only an ongoing fall season but lots of off season practice as well.

A military enlistment crisis, a total very long hold on senior military promotions, now a budget shut down that will impact training. How not to prepare for the next conflict.
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Most USNA coaches are funded via the Athletic Association. There are some coaches that are government civilians and teach certain courses. But most are not Civil Servants. If I recall from the last shut downs, the impact was negligible on the teams themselves.
 
DMV1962 said:
Curious how this would affect operations at Pensacola and Quantico.
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I was at Quantico for several shut downs. If I recall correctly, impact varied. Things that were heavily military led such as TBS and OCS kept at it. Some things like Marine Corps University, Systems Command, and all the other acquisition type commands were more impacted. A lot of government civilians. Uniformed members tried to cover down as much as possible along with contractors. But it definitely impacted things. It’s been awhile, but I went through several of these, my memory could be fuzzy.
 
IronmanDaremo said:
I know that back in 2018-19, we had 35 days we were shut down. I don't know what happened to the military academies then.

Geez, a bunch of kids used to getting pampered having to make their own food? What is the world coming to??!! ;)
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It was pretty much exactly what @nuensis described in 2013. Civilian profs and non-essential civilian employees did not come into work. King Hall was still going.
 
Thanks

Any insight as to how they will deal with students. Not the A and B students. Those that maybe trying really hard to not flunk out. If civilian teachers are gone for a month + are these kids in general worse off or better off grade wise?

Asking for a friend :)
 
Small Team Bacsi said:
Thanks

Any insight as to how they will deal with students. Not the A and B students. Those that maybe trying really hard to not flunk out. If civilian teachers are gone for a month + are these kids in general worse off or better off grade wise?

Asking for a friend :)
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The real issue was with the Languages and Cultures department, which was, with the exception of a single Marine FAO that was a Chinese instructor, entirely civilian faculty. The other departments were largely fine. It's not like you weren't allowed to get EI from a different instructor. MGSP was still going as well.

Longer term solution would have been to collapse class sections. Some core courses like Chemistry and Physics might have gotten up to 50-100 students to one instructor in that case. A lot for USNA, but still a pretty small number compared to a lot of public universities.

Also, USNA always reserves the right to use the summer sessions. The only summer training required for graduation is a single 1/C cruise. All other cruises and PRODEV training sessions are optional. That means it is entirely possible to scrap things like Sailing, YPs, PROTRAMID, 3/C surface cruise, for a MIDN that is in extremis.
 
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