Army-Navy game: White Power hand symbol appears to be used during pregame broadcast

That’s not a racist symbol.

I wish whoever made that up was arrested.

Kids for years where I am from do it ... the object is to get the other person to look at your hand. If they look at it you get to punch them in the shoulder. It’s called the circle game.

When I grew up it meant something was AOK. This racist crap is nonsense.
 
I heard 30 company ... BOTH black and white alike ... do it because it forms a 30.
 
A1Janitor said:
That’s not a racist symbol.

I wish whoever made that up was arrested.

Kids for years where I am from do it ... the object is to get the other person to look at your hand.

When I grew up it meant something was AOK. This racist crap is nonsense.
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Uhm. Okay. I don't know those young people. I wouldn't dare speak to their motives. And I'm certainly not young and "with it" to know what the possible alternative interpretations might be.

But I will suggest that you view the video and just see what there is to be seen, with an open mind. Did it look like it was possibly an effort to get someone to look at the hand? Did it look like it was possibly someone saying something is AOK? There's going to have to be a different plausible interpretation.
 
Milly said:
Uhm. Okay. I don't know those young people. I wouldn't dare speak to their motives. And I'm certainly not young and "with it" to know what the possible alternative interpretations might be.

But I will suggest that you view the video and just see what there is to be seen, with an open mind. Did it look like it was possibly an effort to get someone to look at the hand? Did it look like it was possibly someone saying something is AOK? There's going to have to be a different plausible interpretation.
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I saw the video. I bet it wasn’t a bad racist intent. It was more getting the camera to look at it.

Immature? Sure? Racist - eh. I need more than someone else’s presumption before I impeach anyone, especially one serving our country.
 
A1Janitor said:
I saw the video. I bet it wasn’t a bad racist intent. It was more getting the camera to look at it.

Immature? Sure? Racist - eh. I need more than someone else’s presumption before I impeach anyone, especially one serving our country.
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It really has intrigued me how, over the years, words and symbols and even hand gestures can get hijacked and start to mean something else. Like, I am still working to stop myself from using the expression "hook up" - to me, it means just to get together with someone to have lunch or to form a partnership for something. But for young people, it is about sex. My goodness!

I will tell you that I just discussed this with my visiting niece and she tells me that her friends use it...she says it is a "meme" and means something that is not racist. Interesting. I will have to wait and see how this plays out, for this specific situation. But, I did tell her that, at a minimum, it leads to questions and can be interpreted in a very negative way. Live and learn.

I do know that white racist/nationalism is a concern in the military but how big, probably is hard to nail down. Hopefully these young adults have a good explanation. It was a fun day and no one wants it ruined for anyone for a misinterpretation.
 
Milly said:
It really has intrigued me how, over the years, words and symbols and even hand gestures can get hijacked and start to mean something else. Like, I am still working to stop myself from using the expression "hook up" - to me, it means just to get together with someone to have lunch or to form a partnership for something. But for young people, it is about sex. My goodness!

I will tell you that I just discussed this with my visiting niece and she tells me that her friends use it...she says it is a "meme" and means something that is not racist. Interesting. I will have to wait and see how this plays out, for this specific situation.

I do know that white racist/nationalism is a concern in the military but how big, probably is hard to nail down. Hopefully these young adults have a good explanation. It was a fun day and no one wants it ruined for anyone for a misinterpretation.
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I would be very interested in seeing links to a concern in the military with white racist/nationalism.

On the contrary, my son says the military isn’t racist at all. Everyone is his brothers and sisters.
 
i was FaceTiming my dd and her African American roommate and asked them about this story. They were both laughing hard and her roommate told me it’s a game, kind of like gotcha, made you look. Her roommate is definitely someone who would speak up if offended by it. I think the cadets/mids don’t use it for white power and I highly doubt they would flash it on national tv knowing their faces would be recognized if they had bad intentions.
 
I had to go educate myself on this.

This seems to be a balanced article on how we got to this point on this particular hand sign:

You are being redirected...

www.adl.org

I was familiar with the circle game usage, the older A-OK usage, but only peripherally aware of association with white nationalism.

Language and communications continually evolve, and sadly, some words and signs are co-opted for the worse.

People will view the video and images through their own lenses of experience, assumptions, expectations and biases.

I hope the investigation clears up context and intent, and takes action appropriate to the findings.
 
I can't speak to the motives of the cadets in the video, but I have seen many pictures of DS and his friends, over the past 6 years, using that symbol. I've seen it used by teens who are Asian, Pacific Islander, White and Black. They used it above the waist, below the waist and on their eyes (plus in front of their nether regions while wearing a singlet), yet I've never heard it referred to as something racist until today. If we want to, we can look at something and see whatever we expect to see based on our experiences. By the way, I am Black and I saw nothing but a couple of young people goofing off because they are on camera. This nonsense has gotten out of hand. We can't say anything or do anything anymore without fear of offending someone somewhere. If you are looking for offense, you will always find it, even when it isn't anything to be offended about.
Forgive me. I am not the kind of person to rant on the internet, but this just chaps my hide.
 
Capt MJ said:
I had to go educate myself on this.

This seems to be a balanced article on how we got to this point on this particular hand sign:

You are being redirected...

www.adl.org

I was familiar with the circle game usage, the older A-OK usage, but only peripherally aware of association with white nationalism.

Language and communications continually evolve, and sadly, some words and signs are co-opted for the worse.

People will view the video and images through their own lenses of experience, assumptions, expectations and biases.

I hope the investigation clears up context and intent, and takes action appropriate to the findings.
Click to expand...

Let’s assume that article is accurate.

What if some group hijacks the military use of saluting officers. Are we going to get rid of all use of the salute?

Who are these white nationalists? I have never seen them or heard them other than undocumented claims like this.

Get rid of racists. But don’t let them hijack and misappropriate culture.
 
maxman007mom said:
I can't speak to the motives of the cadets in the video, but I have seen many pictures of DS and his friends, over the past 6 years, using that symbol. I've seen it used by teens who are Asian, Pacific Islander, White and Black. They used it above the waist, below the waist and on their eyes (plus in front of their nether regions while wearing a singlet), yet I've never heard it referred to as something racist until today. If we want to, we can look at something and see whatever we expect to see based on our experiences. By the way, I am Black and I saw nothing but a couple of young people goofing off because they are on camera. This nonsense has gotten out of hand. We can't say anything or do anything anymore without fear of offending someone somewhere. If you are looking for offense, you will always find it, even when it isn't anything to be offended about.
Forgive me. I am not the kind of person to rant on the internet, but this just chaps my hide.
Click to expand...

What a fantastic post.
 
Milly said:
It really has intrigued me how, over the years, words and symbols and even hand gestures can get hijacked and start to mean something else. Like, I am still working to stop myself from using the expression "hook up" - to me, it means just to get together with someone to have lunch or to form a partnership for something. But for young people, it is about sex. My goodness!

I will tell you that I just discussed this with my visiting niece and she tells me that her friends use it...she says it is a "meme" and means something that is not racist. Interesting. I will have to wait and see how this plays out, for this specific situation. But, I did tell her that, at a minimum, it leads to questions and can be interpreted in a very negative way. Live and learn.

I do know that white racist/nationalism is a concern in the military but how big, probably is hard to nail down. Hopefully these young adults have a good explanation. It was a fun day and no one wants it ruined for anyone for a misinterpretation.
Click to expand...
I understand your point about the concern for racist/nationalism in the military following the Charlottesville incident. The problem is that if we allow that idea to be the lens through which we see everything, we risk accusing innocent people of perpetuating hatred. Their futures could be at stake. Yes, the cadets should be more responsible with the image they present. One problem is that media is quick to post assumptions of guilt, but when they are found to be false they don't post retractions. Even if they did, the damage is done and the mob is on to the next outrage. More care needs to be taken with reporting.
 
Capt MJ said:
I had to go educate myself on this.

This seems to be a balanced article on how we got to this point on this particular hand sign:

You are being redirected...

www.adl.org

I was familiar with the circle game usage, the older A-OK usage, but only peripherally aware of association with white nationalism.

Language and communications continually evolve, and sadly, some words and signs are co-opted for the worse.

People will view the video and images through their own lenses of experience, assumptions, expectations and biases.

I hope the investigation clears up context and intent, and takes action appropriate to the findings.
Click to expand...
I hadn't seen your post when I went on my tangent. I wasn't aware of any other meaning besides A-Ok and the circle game either. Thank you for doing the research👌
 
Milly said:
Uhm. Okay. I don't know those young people. I wouldn't dare speak to their motives. And I'm certainly not young and "with it" to know what the possible alternative interpretations might be.

But I will suggest that you view the video and just see what there is to be seen, with an open mind. Did it look like it was possibly an effort to get someone to look at the hand? Did it look like it was possibly someone saying something is AOK? There's going to have to be a different plausible interpretation.
Click to expand...
I am a "young person" and can speak on the alternate meanings. First off, I'd like to say anyone who thinks this is a white power symbol is out of their mind. It was created by those who opposed Trump to pin him as "racist" for a gesture he often used. The symbol for me, and for many others, has always been a symbol meaning "ok" and nothing more. As a young person, we have a "game" between our group of friends that uses that symbol. It involves making that symbol and putting it below your waistline and trying to get your friends to see it. If they look at it, you get to slap them on the neck. Again, make fun of the game and its nonsense all you want, my assumption is that they made those signs as a joke as it's part of a common game between high schoolers and college students.
 
Capt MJ said:
I had to go educate myself on this.

This seems to be a balanced article on how we got to this point on this particular hand sign:

You are being redirected...

www.adl.org

I was familiar with the circle game usage, the older A-OK usage, but only peripherally aware of association with white nationalism.

Language and communications continually evolve, and sadly, some words and signs are co-opted for the worse.

People will view the video and images through their own lenses of experience, assumptions, expectations and biases.

I hope the investigation clears up context and intent, and takes action appropriate to the findings.
Click to expand...

In my opinion the co-opting / redefining in this case has been by those who wish to stoke division by imposing nefarious intent on a neutral/innocuous/commonly used gesture. This article did a nice job laying it all out. Our culture seems addicted to the super fast pace of the internet mob, newspapers want viral articles. I hope cooler heads prevail.
 
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