Army Oppertunity

B

BobSanderz

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2019
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213
This is more a general question but,

I have recently been denied from West Point, and have instead chosen to attend The Citadel through my ROTC Scholarship and I have some underlying worries. I would hope that if I perform within the top 10 % at Citadel then my opportunities going into and within the army would be on par with that of a West Point graduate, however I am concerned that this is not the case citing things like branching priority and the Long Grey Line.
Overall, are West pointers favored to a degree to which is insurmountable by a strong ROTC cadet throughout their military Career?

Opportunities that I'm concerned about:
-Airborne Air Assault, Ranger ect..
-Getting selected for Above The Zone Officer Promotions
-Connections, Networking and Opportunity within the Army in general
 
Short answer no. Long answer go ask the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, FORSCOM Commander, AFRICOM Commander, TRADOC Commander and Secretary of the Army if being ROTC graduates disadvantaged them.

Additionally you get Airborne or Air Assault primarily based on needs/unit and the schools NCO who does your packet wont even know what you are talking about if you say source of commission.

No difference in promotion either. Promotion boards wi focus on job evaluations and performance.
 
BobSanderz said:
This is more a general question but,

I have recently been denied from West Point, and have instead chosen to attend The Citadel through my ROTC Scholarship and I have some underlying worries. I would hope that if I perform within the top 10 % at Citadel then my opportunities going into and within the army would be on par with that of a West Point graduate, however I am concerned that this is not the case citing things like branching priority and the Long Grey Line.
Overall, are West pointers favored to a degree to which is insurmountable by a strong ROTC cadet throughout their military Career?

Opportunities that I'm concerned about:
-Airborne Air Assault, Ranger ect..
-Getting selected for Above The Zone Officer Promotions
-Connections, Networking and Opportunity within the Army in general
Click to expand...
By the way, you don't ever want "Above the Zone" promotion. At least in the Navy it means you are promoting late. What you want is
"Below Zone" promotion aka "Early Promotion" and its kinda hard to get because after all wouldn't the vast majority of people want them?
 
OldRetSWO said:
By the way, you don't ever want "Above the Zone" promotion. At least in the Navy it means you are promoting late. What you want is
"Below Zone" promotion aka "Early Promotion" and its kinda hard to get because after all wouldn't the vast majority of people want them?
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Thank you for the clarirification, I was referring to below the zone
 
BobSanderz said:
Overall, are West pointers favored to a degree to which is insurmountable by a strong ROTC cadet throughout their military Career?
Click to expand...
No. Just do well; that's all that matters. No one will judge you (at least any good competent officer wont) solely based upon your commissioning source. All people care about is that you can do your job, lead your troops, and get everyone home alive.

It's cool and all to get an Airborne or Air Assault slot as a CDT, but don't stress if you don't. You will have plenty of opportunities to get them once you commission. If you go to the 82nd, you're going to get your jump wings; if you go to the 101st, you're going to get Air Assault.

If you get selected for some cool training as a CDT, just look at it as icing on the cake.

Networking/connections will just come with time. Don't go crazy and go out of your way to network. Luckily for you, Citadel has a large alumni network; that will be a great place to start like I said before.
 
Thompson said:
No. Just do well; that's all that matters. No one will judge you (at least any good competent officer wont) solely based upon your commissioning source. All people care about is that you can do your job, lead your troops, and get everyone home alive.

It's cool and all to get an Airborne or Air Assault slot as a CDT, but don't stress if you don't. You will have plenty of opportunities to get them once you commission. If you go to the 82nd, you're going to get your jump wings; if you go to the 101st, you're going to get Air Assault.

If you get selected for some cool training as a CDT, just look at it as icing on the cake.

Networking/connections will just come with time. Don't go crazy and go out of your way to network. Luckily for you, Citadel has a large alumni network; that will be a great place to start like I said before.
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I really appreciate your take, the more I learn, the more excited I'm becoming.
 
BobSanderz said:
I really appreciate your take, the more I learn, the more excited I'm becoming.
Click to expand...
Thompson said:
No. Just do well; that's all that matters. No one will judge you (at least any good competent officer wont) solely based upon your commissioning source. All people care about is that you can do your job, lead your troops, and get everyone home alive.

It's cool and all to get an Airborne or Air Assault slot as a CDT, but don't stress if you don't. You will have plenty of opportunities to get them once you commission. If you go to the 82nd, you're going to get your jump wings; if you go to the 101st, you're going to get Air Assault.

If you get selected for some cool training as a CDT, just look at it as icing on the cake.

Networking/connections will just come with time. Don't go crazy and go out of your way to network. Luckily for you, Citadel has a large alumni network; that will be a great place to start like I said before.
Click to expand...
Just to clarify, what is CDT?
 
A few clarifications.
1. If you want active duty a service academy is a guaranteed route. ROTC not so much a guarantee. The services know how many academy graduates they will have each year as O-1's (junior officers). ROTC/OCS are throttled back and forth as needed. Some years, such as when I graduated it was fairly easy to get active duty. During my wife's year, she was actually forced on active duty due to a shortage of active duty LT's. I've seen some years when active duty was very difficult to get for ROTC (post-Desert Storm).
2. Branches. Again, the service academy can help... or hinder. The year I commissioned if I had been West Point I probably wouldn't have gotten Aviation Branch due to my GPA. Somehow I got it as an ROTC cadet. I did not get Regular Army, but I did get an active duty slot as a Reserve Officer. I don't think it happens much anymore, but one of my brothers at USNA had to walk a fine line with his GPA. Do well enough to get aviation, but not so well that he came under Rickover's radar and was forced into Nukes. If your heart is set on a noncombat arm in the Army West Point may not be the way to go... but then that may change again in a few years.
3. Schools. You take them when you can. Sometimes they are easy to get as an officer, sometimes not so much. I know officers who have been trying to get airborne school for years. No luck. On the flip side, if you get hurt at a school as an ROTC cadet... good luck. No MEB. West Point Cadets are treated the same as active duty, however. Also, they have an Air Assault school every year at West Point. Usually, it's pretty easy for a West Point Cadet or newly commissioned graduate to get the school. There used to be Air Assault school throughout the Army, but I think most outside of Fort Campbell are being closed down.
4. As an officer, your evaluations and promotions are based upon your job positions and evaluations. Commission source can not even be viewed by the promotion boards anymore, though there are ways of making it known such as wearing your class ring in your DA photo. The one way a service academy can help you is in getting military jobs through connections. Still, I did not see this as a major advantage. Heck, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is an ROTC grad. Didn't seem to hurt his career.
 
UHBlackhawk said:
A few clarifications.
1. If you want active duty a service academy is a guaranteed route. ROTC not so much a guarantee. The services know how many academy graduates they will have each year as O-1's (junior officers). ROTC/OCS are throttled back and forth as needed. Some years, such as when I graduated it was fairly easy to get active duty. During my wife's year, she was actually forced on active duty due to a shortage of active duty LT's. I've seen some years when active duty was very difficult to get for ROTC (post-Desert Storm).
2. Branches. Again, the service academy can help... or hinder. The year I commissioned if I had been West Point I probably wouldn't have gotten Aviation Branch due to my GPA. Somehow I got it as an ROTC cadet. I did not get Regular Army, but I did get an active duty slot as a Reserve Officer. I don't think it happens much anymore, but one of my brothers at USNA had to walk a fine line with his GPA. Do well enough to get aviation, but not so well that he came under Rickover's radar and was forced into Nukes. If your heart is set on a noncombat arm in the Army West Point may not be the way to go... but then that may change again in a few years.
3. Schools. You take them when you can. Sometimes they are easy to get as an officer, sometimes not so much. I know officers who have been trying to get airborne school for years. No luck. On the flip side, if you get hurt at a school as an ROTC cadet... good luck. No MEB. West Point Cadets are treated the same as active duty, however. Also, they have an Air Assault school every year at West Point. Usually, it's pretty easy for a West Point Cadet or newly commissioned graduate to get the school. There used to be Air Assault school throughout the Army, but I think most outside of Fort Campbell are being closed down.
4. As an officer, your evaluations and promotions are based upon your job positions and evaluations. Commission source can not even be viewed by the promotion boards anymore, though there are ways of making it known such as wearing your class ring in your DA photo. The one way a service academy can help you is in getting military jobs through connections. Still, I did not see this as a major advantage. Heck, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is an ROTC grad. Didn't seem to hurt his career.
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Thank you sir, quick questions? I have been awarded an ROTC scholarship, doesn't that come with an ADSO? What determines one's chance as an officer to get selected for a school.
 
BobSanderz said:
Thank you sir, quick questions? I have been awarded an ROTC scholarship, doesn't that come with an ADSO? What determines one's chance as an officer to get selected for a school.
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Look at the fine print of the scholarship. There is usually something about the "needs of the Army". While it is normally a requirement to pay it back, it does not necessarily mean that you will serve the entire time though again, that is usually the case. For example, after Desert Storm, there was a RIF (Reduction In Force). Some officers were given the opportunity to leave active duty early. I knew West Point graduates who only served two years of active duty. Some were not given the opportunity but were instead involuntarily "RIFTED" or forced out. OCS officers graduating from Navy flight school were offered early outs- they could leave the Navy right after "winging" with no cost incurred due to cutbacks.
As another example that I already mentioned, my DW had a "guaranteed reserve scholarship". For her, it was the opposite. "Needs of the Army" was that they were short LT's and she was forced onto active duty. So much for her grad school slot. Of course, it worked out well for her. She and her boyfriend broke up since she was going overseas and she got to meet me.
I am NOT saying this will happen. Just understand that it may (and has) happened.
Also, the opposite can happen. Just because you have a 5 year ADSO does NOT mean the military will release you after 5 years, though this is normally the case. The military can, and again has, used "stop losses" to keep people on active duty past their ADSO.
 
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emwvmi forgot the Commander of CENTCOM; he is a Citadel graduate and his classmate retired recently as Assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps.
 
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