Army ROTC or USMA? I'm feeling pressured...

icestorm3500 said:
This is really helpful and makes me feel better about my doubts and concerns.
The only thing I am really concerned about is that if I get accepted for the 2020-2021 academic year to USMA and decide to decline to take the ROTC scholarship and then come back next year saying that I want to go to USMA, won't they look at me in a different light, possibly a negative one?

I'm really glad that your DD found what she was looking for!
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It depends on how you word it to West Point. It could give you a leg up.
In my DD’s case she just needed time to grow and mature and find her place. She got to do some cool things while enlisted, but she also did a bunch of “police call”, sweeping for unexploded ordinance in Iraq, kitchen detail, digging latrines... things that tend to give you “perspective”. I think those sitting on the admissions board understand that.
Perhaps a year at a “real university” wouldn’t give you the same experiences, but it would give you more of a perspective on which route is best for you.
Now having said all of that, and having been ROTC along with my wife I can say USMA will normally give a Cadet more military opportunities than ROTC. The Army probably spent more money on my DD’s military training in her first year at West Point than they spent on me over 4 years. But it comes down to what you do with those opportunities.
 
dddad said:
@icestorm3500, when this is no longer hypothetical, go visit. If CSU is really where you want to be, then go there. What we think doesn’t matter. Do what will work for you. Your parents will eventually come around. USMA will challenge you in ways nothing else will. So what. And, I’m a believer in the idea that you won’t survive USMA unless you are there because of your own drive, not your parents’. Best of luck and I hope you have some hard decisions to make.

Luge?
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Haha, it's actually equestrian vaulting, which is basically gymnastics on horseback. It's much more common in Europe and is a part of the FEI (International Federation for Equestrian Sports ), so it is recognized by a huge committee.
 
Icestorm, just curious? Are either (both?) of your folks, old grads?
 
Goat 965 said:
Icestorm, just curious? Are either (both?) of your folks, old grads?
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Neither my mom or dad were grads, nor my grandparents (but my dad, and both grandparents have military experience).
I have a second cousin who was a grad from USNA.
 
icestorm3500 said:
Haha, it's actually equestrian vaulting, which is basically gymnastics on horseback. It's much more common in Europe and is a part of the FEI (International Federation for Equestrian Sports ), so it is recognized by a huge committee.
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Far more impressive than luge! A couple of last comments. Your parents probably know you pretty well. So, ask them what about you makes them think USMA is right for you - putting aside reputation. Second, I’ve spoken to plenty of USMA grads who tell me they’ve worked with very fine officers at all levels who were ROTC and not USMA grads.

Do what works for you.
 
dddad said:
Far more impressive than luge! A couple of last comments. Your parents probably know you pretty well. So, ask them what about you makes them think USMA is right for you - putting aside reputation. Second, I’ve spoken to plenty of USMA grads who tell me they’ve worked with very fine officers at all levels who were ROTC and not USMA grads.

Do what works for you.
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Thank you! It definitely requires a lot of upper body strength and physical fitness to keep up.

I talked a lot with my mom about what why she thinks USMA would be great for me, and I agree with a lot of her opinions as well, such as the physical fitness portion and academic rigor. However, it seems that I still will get to experience lots of similar things in the right ROTC program (except that fact that it is regular college, which I want).
 
A couple “mom thoughts”....
1) what are you looking to do for a career? Will you “put your time in” and get out or do you want to stay in the military? If you want to remain in the military maybe your parents think as a WP grad you would have an advantage? I don’t know if that’s necessarily the case, but others more educated on this topic could provide some clarity there.

DS wants to serve in Army as long as he can. I haven’t shared this with him yet (only a Jr.) but I sort of want him to go ROTC and have a more normal college experience because I think a lot of learning takes place. YOU have to decide when to do laundry, balance your schedule, balance your social life, deal with roommate drama, decide if you can afford to go off campus to go out to eat, ETC. This is the first time you are living on your own and when you have to make all those “grown up” decisions that you haven’t had to before, I think you learn a great deal.

2)Have you had a conversation with them WHY they so badly want you to attend there? Maybe they have a reason or two you haven’t thought of. YOU are the one who has to attend, not them. But, as parents we want more for our kids. Personally I’ve worked very hard to provide opportunities for my kids that I could have only dreamed of! I’ve done things, seen things, lived things that have shaped me and provided a perspective that my DS has no clue about. (We might be looking at the same thing but seeing two different things because of our different perspectives.)
But if it’s for bragging rights to tell others than that is totally for the wrong reasons.
****I worked very closwith the career center director during my masters. Her biggest take away was that parents have to put their own agenda to the side. She felt strongly about a gap year. But found very few students did it bc parents needed to tell others their kiddo was heading off to x,y,z college....not that their student was “taking time off”
** we mean well... but we don’t always get it right :)

3) I would suggest visiting USMA again if possible. You have obviously worked very hard to be where you are. And the last thing you’d want 10 years from now is have any regrets. ***don’t answer this in the post, but think about it and be honest with yourself... is fear creeping in? Fear of failure, etc.? Don’t let fear get in the way of clouding your decision. So, try to visit again. And be honest with yourself about what you’re thinking and feeling.
4) friends and/or significant other not influencing you are they? Your future has to come before those relationships... if they are true, dedicated friends they will be there for you regardless.
Good luck - all will work out!
 
LookinUpMom said:
A couple “mom thoughts”....
1) what are you looking to do for a career? Will you “put your time in” and get out or do you want to stay in the military? If you want to remain in the military maybe your parents think as a WP grad you would have an advantage? I don’t know if that’s necessarily the case, but others more educated on this topic could provide some clarity there.

DS wants to serve in Army as long as he can. I haven’t shared this with him yet (only a Jr.) but I sort of want him to go ROTC and have a more normal college experience because I think a lot of learning takes place. YOU have to decide when to do laundry, balance your schedule, balance your social life, deal with roommate drama, decide if you can afford to go off campus to go out to eat, ETC. This is the first time you are living on your own and when you have to make all those “grown up” decisions that you haven’t had to before, I think you learn a great deal.

2)Have you had a conversation with them WHY they so badly want you to attend there? Maybe they have a reason or two you haven’t thought of. YOU are the one who has to attend, not them. But, as parents we want more for our kids. Personally I’ve worked very hard to provide opportunities for my kids that I could have only dreamed of! I’ve done things, seen things, lived things that have shaped me and provided a perspective that my DS has no clue about. (We might be looking at the same thing but seeing two different things because of our different perspectives.)
But if it’s for bragging rights to tell others than that is totally for the wrong reasons.
****I worked very closwith the career center director during my masters. Her biggest take away was that parents have to put their own agenda to the side. She felt strongly about a gap year. But found very few students did it bc parents needed to tell others their kiddo was heading off to x,y,z college....not that their student was “taking time off”
** we mean well... but we don’t always get it right :)

3) I would suggest visiting USMA again if possible. You have obviously worked very hard to be where you are. And the last thing you’d want 10 years from now is have any regrets. ***don’t answer this in the post, but think about it and be honest with yourself... is fear creeping in? Fear of failure, etc.? Don’t let fear get in the way of clouding your decision. So, try to visit again. And be honest with yourself about what you’re thinking and feeling.
4) friends and/or significant other not influencing you are they? Your future has to come before those relationships... if they are true, dedicated friends they will be there for you regardless.
Good luck - all will work out!
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Thank you so much for these thoughts! I think it really helps to get a "mom" perspective ;)

1. I'm pretty sure that I want to stay in the Army for longer than my required time, but I will only be able to truly decide that until I have some experience in the military. I believe that the "advantage" portion is part of the reason my parents are pushing for USMA, but from what everyone has replied so far, the experiences are different but you all come out as a recruited officer and no one will judge you for what school you went to.

I'm also really wanting the "real college" feel, as learning about all those life skills I think is necessary and important (not that USMA wouldn't teach you life skills, but it's different).

2. We've talked about me attending USMA because it would be a good fit for me, regarding the atmosphere, the physical fitness, and the academics. They talk about how all the experiences I will get are unlike no other and that since I apparently won't like regular college, then USMA is the only option...
I definitely understand them wanting what is best for me and getting the best education I can, but I hope ROTC can do that just as well too!

3. I have not visited USMA yet actually, so I'm not sure what it is like. Maybe visiting soon would give me a better feel for the environment and solidify my decision?

4. Luckily, these are not influencing reasons for me ;)
 
A FINAL QUESTION:

Now that I have all this information, should I wait to decide what I will do to see what happens (like until April)?
I don't want to make any hasty decisions.
 
icestorm3500 said:
A FINAL QUESTION:

Now that I have all this information, should I wait to decide what I will do to see what happens (like until April)?
I don't want to make any hasty decisions.
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You don't have a decision to make...yet. My advice is to accept the ROTC scholarship now. That is your plan A for now. If a USMA appointment comes along, then you have a decision to make. You've received a lot of good feedback and advice, but that ROTC vs. USMA decision, if the appointment comes, will be yours alone to make. If you get the USMA appointment and decide you want USMA, then decline the ROTC scholarship and accept the USMA appointment.

I hope you are in a position to have to decide between the two, but keep in mind that many, many outstanding and highly qualified people do not get into SA's every year. And be prepared to wait until April to hear one way or the other. In the meantime, if your parents ask about USMA just tell them that you don't have an appointment yet, but you will give careful consideration to your decision if you do. The great news is that you know what your goal is - you just have to define the best path for you to get there.

Good luck.
 
icestorm3500 said:
A FINAL QUESTION:

Now that I have all this information, should I wait to decide what I will do to see what happens (like until April)?
I don't want to make any hasty decisions.
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Accept your ROTC scholarship and IF you’re offered an appointment to WP, then you have to choose. From what you have posted here, your heart is not in West Point. Your desire to attend a civilian university has been expressed countless times in this thread, so you seem to know the answer to your question already.
If your heart and desire is not committed to West Point, you are likely to not survive BEAST let alone your Plebe year.
Good luck with ROTC, and thank you for your willingness to serve our Country.
 
Dear Ice (and doesn't it seem you should be "Ice Ice Baby--too Cold?") ...This is such a painful thread to read--as a Mom, it makes my heartache for you--to feel this pressure about such a huge decision. For you, it seems there are only wonderful choices--and you could be successful anywhere because you are smart, athletic, and have grit. What do parents want--we all want our children to be happy and most of us with kids applying to service academies, we want them to achieve their full potential. Be generous to your parents in their desire to have you attend elite institutions. They are surely the biggest fans of your life.

Have you ever been to West Point yet? Did you visit or talk to anyone on the equestrian team or any of the Mule Riders? That might help to inspire you.
Have you had the chance to visit Cornell? To see the dorms and meet the ROTC crowd?
Those things might be essential for you--otherwise, it will be Army ROTC and CSU--and more of your sport, in which you are bona fide champion.

You might find that your sport keeps your from essential ROTC events. Have you spoken to the CSU Army ROTC crowd about your schedule in your sport and if this is a match? They may have mandatory field exercises that conflict with your sport travel schedule. (Also, intrinsically, how long can you do your sport--is this your real calling or is it something that you can do for a few more years and then it comes to an end? How far can you go and who pays the bills and for how long?)

Listen, you have that ROTC scholarship in hand. Accept it now. You can talk to the RSO at CSU about your sport from a position of being in the crowd rather than as an applicant. You can turn the ROTC scholarship down later if you are appointed to USMA and decide to take it.


All of these options are great--and bring you to being an Army officer. (And I hope that you want to be an Army officer because if you are doing it for the money or to please your folks, let me tell you--when you are sitting in a bunker wearing all of your protective gear with incoming missiles, you do not want to sit there and think, 'This was not worth $100 a month in college,' like one of my fellow platoon leaders.) Last, you alone get to pick. USMA can be a drag if your heart is not in it--but it can also be amazing if you give it a chance. (It is terrifying at first--by design--the fear of the unknown but by the end of Beast, you will be elated and swapping stories and ready to take on the world.)

So, no easy answers here. Consider all your options--and do what is right for you in the long term. You are about to go on a marvelous adventure and two of your choices are to places where you will be new to everyone and everyone will be new to you--which is scary and awesome. (Please be kind to your parents, they only want you to have the best of everything.)
 
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Now, this is my favorite Mule Rider! <3 Beat Navy!
 
I would say if you want to be in the army you can't beat USMA. My brother spent a year doing ROTC at a normal college, and was upset with how he was seen as an outsider, and the difficulties of doing sports academics and rotc. He transferred to WestPoint and is now much better off
 
Tennis0102 said:
I would say if you want to be in the army you can't beat USMA. My brother spent a year doing ROTC at a normal college, and was upset with how he was seen as an outsider, and the difficulties of doing sports academics and rotc. He transferred to WestPoint and is now much better off
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One person’s experience is not the standard.
For any candidates exploring their commissioning options and seeking information on SAF, please take that post with a grain of salt.
Different strokes for different folks. ROTC isn’t for everyone, and neither is West Point. They both produce 2LTs, good and bad. Both are a great path to commission, and neither should be looked down upon. There are many reasons candidates don’t even want a SA experience but want a particular college, commission, and serve. Then of course there’s OCS.....
Different people seek a different experience, but the final outcome is a Butterbar willing to serve their Country.
I was in the Army and didn’t go to West Point, it worked out well for me.
There is another example to take with a grain of salt!
 
My DS is in is 3rd year of NROTC and has never said anything about feeling like an outsider. he has a great group of friends both inside and outside NROTC. He has had opportunities and experiences he would not have had at USNA. Likewise, mids at USNA have had opportunities and experiences he has not had at a civilian college. Bottom line is, he decided this was the best path for him and will commission next year the same as USNA grads who started when he did. I can only hope he will lead by example and set a high standard for those he leads, just as the parents of a USNA grad would hope for their own DS/DD. there is not on size fits all for the best way to commission, otherwise all officers would come from the same source. Find the path that fits you best; embrace it with everything you have and don't look back.
 
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