Can I vent about acceptance.....

USMCGrunt said:
I would just like to reemphasize @Capt MJ's advice. No need to second guess their motivation for applying or how your DD stacks up to them in desire, work ethic, commitment, etc.

Best of luck to your DD.
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Im not second guessing anyone here - but yes some people do it for the college tuition because they have the scores with no intention of staying in the military. And that is their right as long as they give their time. I get it believe me. I am not begrudging them at all. I think any and all service is honorable. I just wish it didn't make it so hard for those that might be lower on the rack and stack but higher on the fit or commitment.
 
My younger non military son has the same issue. Smart kid but has learning issues. Had 3.8 gpa but couldnt do well on a standardized test if his life depended on it. He did well in school because he studied for his tests using skills that dont work with SATs or ACT. As for your child, if the goal is the Navy, the go NROTC. Based on the test scores, probably wont get a National scholarship. However tests scores are there to predict how well or not well a person will do in college. If your kid is one of those who does great in class but cant do well on a standardize test, then its not the end of the world. If the person does well in college, they will give you scholarships. Kick butt first semester and you might wind up with 3.5 year scholarhip. As for the academies, lets also be honest, there are lots of people who apply to the academies. I guess if they would spend days with your child, they may decide to go with them based on what you see. However, that isnt how it works. They start with the numbers and if you dont meet the minium, no matter how wonderful they are, the schools arent going to look any further. Honestly, its the only way it could work. While I am sure there are some B average students who apply, i highly doubt they make up a large percentage. When i looked at getting a nomination for my son, i looked at one of the Calfornia senators. I was told not to be unless they had straight A average. So i didnt bother
 
Humey said:
My younger non military son has the same issue. Smart kid but has learning issues. Had 3.8 gpa but couldnt do well on a standardized test if his life depended on it. He did well in school because he studied for his tests using skills that dont work with SATs or ACT. As for your child, if the goal is the Navy, the go NROTC. Based on the test scores, probably wont get a National scholarship. However tests scores are there to predict how well or not well a person will do in college. If your kid is one of those who does great in class but cant do well on a standardize test, then its not the end of the world. If the person does well in college, they will give you scholarships. Kick butt first semester and you might wind up with 3.5 year scholarhip. As for the academies, lets also be honest, there are lots of people who apply to the academies. I guess if they would spend days with your child, they may decide to go with them based on what you see. However, that isnt how it works. They start with the numbers and if you dont meet the minium, no matter how wonderful they are, the schools arent going to look any further. Honestly, its the only way it could work. While I am sure there are some B average students who apply, i highly doubt they make up a large percentage. When i looked at getting a nomination for my son, i looked at one of the Calfornia senators. I was told not to be unless they had straight A average. So i didnt bother
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I agree - I just find it frustrating as a essentially a bystander......
 
You don’t know if you don’t try. And please don’t concern yourself with other applications/resumes. You do you! Nothin g gained by worrying about others.

Maybe she gets a prep school offer. Wow, that would be amazing! If she is anything like you describe, she will SHINE in interviews! And she DOES have time to improve her scores.

Don’t use your “reasons” as excuses...she has time left. While sea cadets maybe isn’t direct “points”, her sea cadet leadership will be as a leader! You sound so defeated....don’t give up!!! Vent, whine and then get busy preparing to apply ♥️

And if she doesn’t get in? Have a solid plan B to work and reapply.
 
MorningMommy said:
I'll probably just get dragged for this post but I feel so discouraged and maybe not a little bitter......maybe someone else will understand......

My daughter is a sophomore.....
She has been in sea cadets for 3 years and is a Petty Officer (her school runs sea cadets so they put in drill time up to 5 hours weekly then community service), is second in command, color guard, things I don't remember the names, ribbons and badges, etc, drills with our coast guard weekly every fall and spring, trains every summer and sails....

She did crew, as a coxswain, now track bc crew and sea cadets interferred, boat building (engineering/construction), sea perch where her team placed second this past week territory competition, (she was team leader)....

She takes honor classes that are available, has a 3.785 cum unweighted is third in her class at the moment (trying for higher), and will have stellar recommendations, will be in honor society junior year and take college classes and needs to join student government bc sea cadet leadership doesn't count enough......

BUT her SAT scores are not great - over 1000 but under 1200. And we have so little saved for college for two kids but make enough that we won't get full aid. She wants to be career Navy. She wants King's point. She is working hard for King's point - we won't stop and she is going to test prep (she has always had an issue with norm referenced tests, low aptitude high learning curve)

But she most likely will not get appointed. Because people who don't want career military are willing to give 5 years for the free tuition so she competes with people who have unbelievable SAT scores. Talk to admission officer - Sea Cadet achievement not worth a whole lot - Why? She is working her but off there, she is showing her commitment..... It feels so bad to see her work so hard across the board to be told its still not enough to be an officer to serve.....

She will still reach for King's Point. She will also look to see what the other maritime academies will give her. But I don't know how much to go in debt bc we have a second child who isn't military interested. Her backup is enlisting. She says she will do college online while on duty and work towards becoming an officer. She is awesome....I call her my superhero.

But why does it have to be so hard for everyone? Why can any little thing disqualify you......I get its because the monetary worth of the education.....I get it rationally - but as a parent watching this it just sucks. She is amazing and wants to serve (and will no matter what....) 35% leave......when you know your cadet never would.....

Any advice other than stop whining or go take a flying leap? Anyone feel overwhelmed or guilty or frustrated?
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Your daughter sounds like an amazing young woman who works hard and is very goal oriented - as such, I'm sure she will do well whichever path life takes her down.

I understand your frustration, but a couple of your points that stood out - see bolded quotes above -

Because people who don't want career military are willing to give 5 years for the free tuition so she competes with people who have unbelievable SAT scores.

Not really fair for you to think that because a sophomore in high school is "planning to make it a career", that they should get precedence over any other applicant. Anybody who has served in any branch of the military for any length of time can tell you that NOBODY can realistically plan to make it a career until they have spent at least a few years on active duty. A military career is NOT for everyone, and none of us know where life will take us in terms of relationships, family, KIDS, and other long term goals - especially not someone not even half way through high school!

My take on it is that ANYBODY who is willing to commit to 5 years of active duty, and several years of inactive reserves afterward is making a huge commitment, and I disagree with characterizing any successful SA applicant as "just wanting free tuition". Fact of the matter is, many successful SA applicants have many other options for free tuition/scholarships (academic, not just athletic) at many different civilian universities, simply because they are the "cream of the crop".

This goes even more so when one considers that our country has been at war for almost 2 decades.
As the old saying goes - Anybody who enters the military, is signing a blank check payable to the American people, for ANY amount, up to, and INCLUDING, their LIFE.



BUT her SAT scores are not great - over 1000 but under 1200.

The reason SAT/ACT scores are considered important, is that they most often DO correlate to a college student being able to handle a large course load, with many difficult classes. IMO this is even more so when one is contemplating study in a STEM field - and most academy curriculums seem to be heavily weighted towards that type of education - with even those in management type programs having to take more STEM classes than they would at a civilian university.

Thankfully, as was noted earlier, your daughter still has some time to work on improving those scores, and perhaps spending a year at one of the SA service academy prep schools might be an option.


Her backup is enlisting. She says she will do college online while on duty and work towards becoming an officer.

Nothing wrong with this option, but make sure you and she are both very aware that recruiters may not be well versed on the path to a commission, from enlistee, and that if other options to college exist, like an ROTC scholarship, then that might be the better path. I say this as a former enlisted soldier and Navy officer, who when I was 18 had only 2 options - continuing to work at a fast food restaurant (my part time high school job - "sir would you like some ketchup with your fries?"), or enlisting in one of the services. I parlayed my 6- years as an enlisted soldier into 3 degrees and a commission, so it CAN be done, but it is hardly an easy, or "guaranteed" path. I would say if one has a path to college, and is motivated, they should pursue that before enlisting.




Hopefully my post didn't come off as harsh - not my intention at all, just my assessment of some of your concerns, based on over a decade of active duty and having earned a commission myself.

Please keep us posted, this forum is a great resource for info and advice.
 
Bubby'sDad said:
Anybody who has served in any branch of the military for any length of time can tell you that NOBODY can realistically plan to make it a career until they have spent at least a few years on active duty. A military career is NOT for everyone, and none of us know where life will take us in terms of relationships, family, KIDS, and other long term goals - especially not someone not even half way through high school!
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Possibly the best comment I've ever read within the SAF. 100% true - Nobody, I mean nobody, can project how they will like or dislike the military from a career standpoint until they've "gotten off the bus".
 
TexasAggie204 said:
Possibly the best comment I've ever read within the SAF. 100% true - Nobody, I mean nobody, can project how they will like or dislike the military from a career standpoint until they've "gotten off the bus".
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Usually folks can't really fathom whether or not the military will fit for life, until they've spent years in the proverbial boots.

And even then, life has a way of happening and changing plans.

My 6-years in the Army was largely a good experience, albeit not without some downs (and beat-downs) that helped me grow up. When I went back in as an officer I was 99% sure I would stay in for a career - but several years later I decided I was tired of being told what to do, and that I would rather make my own destiny, leaving even though I was more than halfway to retirement.

Initial duty stations, and the quality of leadership at those critical points in ones time in the military also have a lot to do with an individuals overall experience, and their decision to stay or leave.

Another old saying about whether or not to make the military a career - "people vote with their feet........"
 
TexasAggie204 said:
Possibly the best comment I've ever read within the SAF. 100% true - Nobody, I mean nobody, can project how they will like or dislike the military from a career standpoint until they've "gotten off the bus".
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@Bubby'sDad dad nailed it. Fact is everyone competing for a SA spot/ROTC Scholarship is in a competition - A competition full of very special young men and women. Very few people on this board have any idea about why one person is chosen over another. My guess is the people making those decisions know exactly why they make the choices they do.

I know a lot of people that started out thinking that they were going to make a career out of the military. Life changes, things happen - but never minimize those that fulfill their obligation and opt out.
 
During my USNA tour of duty, at the morning meeting with the Commandant and DepDant, with all of us at 18 years or more, we used to laugh about how we all intended to get out, but ended up staying, and recall those who swore they were career officers as incoming mids, and got out as soon as they could. My DH was going to go Navy Air, try to get multi-engine, get out as soon as he could and head to the airlines. One aerobatic hop in a training jet, and it was fighters the rest of the way, hell bent for squadron and carrier command. No one knows what combination of things will make them stay or go, and at what point.
 
USMCGrunt said:
Agree with the last few posts. And those who have been there know that there are times the decision to stay in isn't yours.
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The decision to stay in or not is often not your decision - often times there are people involved in the decision that were not there at the start of your service. Kids, spouses - have a say as well. Another point I want to make - my generation (1994 grad) have been away from home and deployed for a long time. What we thought of in 1994 was way different than reality in the 2000s.
 
EEBTTF said:
The decision to stay in or not is often not your decision - often times there are people involved in the decision that were not there at the start of your service. Kids, spouses - have a say as well. Another point I want to make - my generation (1994 grad) have been away from home and deployed for a long time. What we thought of in 1994 was way different than reality in the 2000s.
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This thread delivers!

:)

and yet ANOTHER old military saying popped into my head reading EEBTTF's succinct comment:

"If Uncle Sam had WANTED you to have a family (wife/husband/spouse), he would have ISSUED you a family".
 
Now some of the reality is coming out. It wasn't too long ago that you had to have permission to get married.

Don't forget Uncle Sam has a say as I saw in the 80's with reduction in force (RIF), promotion freezes, etc.

When you think about it, it takes a lot of stars to align to get in and stay in for a full career.
 
5 year committment. Thats nothing. Air Force pilots have to commit for ten years after getting their wings. That doesnt include the one year at UPT and casual time prior to that, which can be up to a year.
 
MorningMommy said:
But she will be happy, that I know. She loves the work, she loves the challenge, every CO she works with loves her and "wants" her regardless of branch and she excels at it. It's her "niche" ykwim? So that will be the bottom line - I just wish it was easier/simpler I guess. I don't mean to be a wimp.
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I think the admissions officer told you that they don't weigh Sea Cadets heavily. Your kid would be better off studying than playing mini Navy. That's just the truth. It can be done though. My sophomore year I scored 1180 on the SATs. By the time I was a senior it was 1400. I used ePrep, a quality $250 course and put in the hours. Every hour I put into studying probably converted to hundreds of dollars in saved tuition.
 
MorningMommy said:
USMMA is the only one technically w/o a minimum SAT score and have deck related majors not just engineering, so a lot of coast guard and navy prospecitves try for it......like my DD.
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Kings Point used to have a minimum SAT score when my kid applied back in 2000.. As I recall it was 600 Math and that score in combination with the Critical Reading score had to be 1150 or greater.. That may have changed..

My son had a 1250 combined SAT score and struggled academically his first year. He wasn’t ready for the pace of instruction or the difficulty of some subjects and he paid dearly for it. Being in the maritime industry, I was able to help him out a bit with his professional classes, so he did manage to keep his GPA above the required minimum. He found the bubble after plebe year and went on to graduate on time with a halfway decent GPA. He was a Marine Transportation major.

Getting in is one thing; staying in and graduating is a whole other ball of wax. Just to give you some perspective, only 65% of the class that my son matriculated with graduated 4 years later.. Another 9% graduated the following year, but that was back when I think the 'set back' policy was a bit more lenient. I don't know, maybe the school is easier now than when my son attended, but I wouldn't be willing to bet money on it. If your daughter gets in, she better make sure she’s prepared..
MorningMommy said:
I honestly think as long as the food is good enough (she is a foodie) once on a boat she would never have to step on land again.....
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I vaguely remember being that Gung Ho about working on ships too.. My first license job was on an old ex-Grace Lines C-2 built in 1944. After spending 6 months on articles shuttling in the Far East on that old wreck, I arrived in Hong Kong with a full blown case of channel fever.. I couldn't wait to get paid, sign off and then join the 'suitcase parade' down the gangway heading for Kai Tak Airport and a flight back home.. The novelty tends to wear thin pretty fast..
 
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