Controversy of Cadet Group Photo -- Reactions from West Pointers?

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Not sure how this thread has veered so off topic. As West Point has made its decision on this matter, not sure there is much more to discuss.
 
VelveteenR said:
Not sure how this thread has veered so off topic. As West Point has made its decision on this matter, not sure there is much more to discuss.
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I'm minoring in philosophy. Can't help it. :biglaugh:
I love a good discussion!
 
haleym said:
Additionally, my mother is a teacher in one of these poorer districts. She is routinely frustrated by the curriculum, just like most of her colleagues. Our schools have become so focused on collecting data and measuring kids through standardized testing .
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I agree with this part. The problem with the schools is not the school but with lack of parental help. Most children that have problems with school are the result of non-Parental guidance. Soooooo many children are raised by moma that has had her 3rd..... boyfriend.....non existence of Daddy. Many are somewhat raised by grandparents. Without an organized home life with positive care and interaction --forget about the battle. By the time these young kids get to high school they know exactly how to tell teachers where to get off because there are no consequences for them. The HS's are just trying to get them thru so as to not show another drop out. We have a BASIC FAMILY PROBLEM. The parents(some drug addicts) have left their children behind and have no values to raise children. No parent adult supervision-what do you think you will get--that's what's happening more and more to our schools and country. It's called a Break Down in Society and it's blamed on the teachers and the school.


Sorry no more derailing from me...
 
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Maplerock said:
America's educational system is not failing. We produce many of the world's greatest minds.
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Those minds that are not imported are largely educated at the university level by non-native Americans. Go to practically any college/university website and check out the STEM faculties. Why are there so many complains from students who can't understand their grad Students lab instructors and TA's.

You're right. American parents don't stress the importance of learning which may be kind of difficult and hurt little Johnny and or Janie's GPA..
 
MemberLG said:
Very valid points, but what's the solution? I can point out all the wrong things in the world until I get tired of typing, but that's not going to change anything.

Are you naïve enough to believe that there should be an "equal starting line." Even if I agree with you, I don't see how we can create an equal starting line.
Care to share some ideas on how to create an "equal starting line?" I got a solution, why don't take resources from your school and send it to the other school.

I send my kids to private schools. My older kid told me how other kids in her class talk about helping people and trying to make things better for others. So I asked my kid what would her friends say if we propose we should allow any student that wants to attend her private school, as it is a good school and all kids should attend goo schools, should be allow to attend the school - total silence from my kid.
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Closest to equal starting line: Affirmative Action, a Yale administrator once said its not how fast & well you finish the race but what was your incline?
 
haleym said:
Do I have all the answers? No. But I absolutely believe in the equal distribution funding among districts, even if that means taking from my own funds and giving to others who are in desperate need of it. Why? Because it's the right thing to do. Right now we have a system that is designed to keep the poor poor and uneducated.
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In Maryland, less funding for poor school district is a liberal propaganda. Baltimore City Public School system has the highest spending per student with the lowest graduation rate and lowest test scores. The reply from the liberals are that it's unfair to use spending per student as the school system has many students that needs additional attention, aging schools need more funding for maintenance and etc. Being a product of the Baltimore Public School System, I am going to say even if the spending per student doubles, we won't see any significant improvement.

If you don't mind, why don't research how schools in your area are funded.
 
Blessedmom said:
Closest to equal starting line: Affirmative Action, a Yale administrator once said its not how fast & well you finish the race but what was your incline?
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Regardless where your start, have incline or decline, you have to run the race to get a result.
 
MemberLG said:
In Maryland, less funding for poor school district is a liberal propaganda. Baltimore City Public School system has the highest spending per student with the lowest graduation rate and lowest test scores. The reply from the liberals are that it's unfair to use spending per student as the school system has many students that needs additional attention, aging schools need more funding for maintenance and etc. Being a product of the Baltimore Public School System, I am going to say even if the spending per student doubles, we won't see any significant improvement.

If you don't mind, why don't research how schools in your area are funded.
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I couldn't care less about who's agenda it is. I'm not a liberal and my prerogative is not political.
MI public schools are funded through grants that come from things like test scores (again, a significant contributor to the failure of the system), through district income, and through a property tax on the nonhomestead property in the district. I think this only further proves my point about the problems with public education that need to be fixed. Additionally, I don't advocate for higher spending for disadvantaged districts, but equal spending among all districts in a state.

MemberLG said:
Regardless where your start, have incline or decline, you have to run the race to get a result.
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What about when someone whacks you in the kneecaps before you even start?

Either way, I suppose I'm done here. I don't think there is anything else to say on my end, as this discussion is clearly not going to lead to any changes in opinion.
 
scoutpilot said:
LOL
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Did you major in arrogance? You certainly think you have all the answers. Awaiting your certain to come noxious response. You seem so bent on being right, and eager to point out how ignorant others are.

Much of what is written on this forum is the opinion of those posting. You have not yet learned to respect the opinions of others. IMHO.
 
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Maplerock said:
Did you major in arrogance? You certainly think you have all the answers. Awaiting your certain to come noxious response. You seem so bent on being right, and eager to point out how ignorant others are.

Much of what is written on this forum is the opinion of those posting. You have not yet learned to respect the opinions of others.
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No, I majored in a discipline that respects empirical evidence and pays little heed to personal demagoguery. I generally find little reason to respect opinions based on political bias and little fact. My advice to you would be that you should strive to be less wrong.

To help you understand your comment about producing the best minds as a measure for our system as a whole, I have included this handy graphic.
BqzcDIlIgAE9Uwj.png
 
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Sounds like someone is compensating for the size of their helicopter.
 
How did things get this far? The "Private Conversation" may be useful... just saying:yikes:.
 
1mom said:
How did things get this far? The "Private Conversation" may be useful... just saying:yikes:.
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Beats me. I was talking about macro social issues. Now all of a sudden we're talking about my major and my airframe. Go figure.
 
scoutpilot said:
No, I majored in a discipline that respects empirical evidence and pays little heed to personal demagoguery. I generally find little reason to respect opinions based on political bias and little fact. My advice to you would be that you should strive to be less wrong
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Now there's a LOL. You're no different than politicians, or trying to be politicians like Trump, who claim "indisputable empirical evidence" when making your case, but when empirical evidence tells a different story it is discounted as bias or rhetoric. You blame inner city murder statistics on socioeconomics and oppression and claim if black men shooting each other are caught they will go to prison therefore a non issue. But then if the incarceration rate for murder is more skewed to blacks then there must a larger issue with injustice in our judicial system right? You made this argument yourself with your "empirical evidence" on page one of this thread - 3/4 of prison inmates being black as if this proves your point. Very Trump-like use of stats. The number itself must tell the story. Or does it? Because I gave you "empirical evidence" that 3/4 of the murders in a major inner city were by black men. But these numbers don't apply or you explain them away.

This reminds me of years ago in my USN command a disgruntled black Sailor called his congressman claiming, among other things, the commanding officer was racist because the last several Sailors to be punished at captain's mast for UCMJ violations were black. It just so happened that the last four Sailors to commit robbery, assault, drug use, etc. were black but that didn't matter to the complainants. So the command had to endure very thorough congressional investigation. And guess what, after much pain and anguish and having to go back through years of legal, promotion, award, and performance evaluation documents, the end result was no discrimination issues. Besides determining no bias in command discipline, the committee found no bias in promotion opportunity, performance evaluations or command awards and recognition. But empirical evidence would have simply said in a six month period 100% of Sailors punished in our command were black therefore the commanding officer was racist.

You claim to be free from political bias and just base your arguments on numerical fact. Except you very much do have a bias - it's called "confirmation bias".

I agree with some others on here, I find your posts arrogant and you are unwilling to consider any opinion that differs from your own. Everyone who disagrees with you is simply wrong. You also find it OK to "LOL" others and make snide remarks questioning whether someone has written performance evaluations. You can pat yourself on the back all you want, but your words speak measures.
 
Trigger said:
Now there's a LOL. You're no different than politicians, or trying to be politicians like Trump, who claim "indisputable empirical evidence" when making your case, but when empirical evidence tells a different story it is discounted as bias or rhetoric. You blame inner city murder statistics on socioeconomics and oppression and claim if black men shooting each other are caught they will go to prison therefore a non issue. But then if the incarceration rate for murder is more skewed to blacks then there must a larger issue with injustice in our judicial system right? You made this argument yourself with your "empirical evidence" on page one of this thread - 3/4 of prison inmates being black as if this proves your point. Very Trump-like use of stats. The number itself must tell the story. Or does it? Because I gave you "empirical evidence" that 3/4 of the murders in a major inner city were by black men. But these numbers don't apply or you explain them away.

This reminds me of years ago in my USN command a disgruntled black Sailor called his congressman claiming, among other things, the commanding officer was racist because the last several Sailors to be punished at captain's mast for UCMJ violations were black. It just so happened that the last four Sailors to commit robbery, assault, drug use, etc. were black but that didn't matter to the complainants. So the command had to endure very thorough congressional investigation. And guess what, after much pain and anguish and having to go back through years of legal, promotion, award, and performance evaluation documents, the end result was no discrimination issues. Besides determining no bias in command discipline, the committee found no bias in promotion opportunity, performance evaluations or command awards and recognition. But empirical evidence would have simply said in a six month period 100% of Sailors punished in our command were black therefore the commanding officer was racist.
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That "empirical evidence" of 100% would be dubbed statistically insignificant and cherry-picked. Sort of like contending that stats from the city of Chicago in one year are indicative of America as a whole.

You claim to be free from political bias and just base your arguments on numerical fact. Except you very much do have a bias - it's called "confirmation bias".

I agree with some others on here, I find your posts arrogant and you are unwilling to consider any opinion that differs from your own. Everyone who disagrees with you is simply wrong. You also find it OK to "LOL" others and make snide remarks questioning whether someone has written performance evaluations. You can pat yourself on the back all you want, but your words speak measures.
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Your lack of understanding of the arguments presented by others baffles me to a degree. Part of me wants to refute them, and the other part of me realizes that if you didn't read and analyze the original points, there's little hope you'll do the same with any further points.

Just to recap your stance:
1. One year of "data" from Chicago defines the black experience with police in America...because you want it to.
2. Black people kill black people at a high rate in Chicago, so therefore blacks should have no opposition to unjustified police violence...because as you said, it's not their "biggest" problem.
3. Socioeconomic realities have no effect on crime rates, are not at all tied to education problems, and black people just basically need to be better behaved and stop complaining about the police.

Let's now consider your other point, which reads thusly:
"But then if the incarceration rate for murder is more skewed to blacks then there must a larger issue with injustice in our judicial system right? You made this argument yourself with your "empirical evidence" on page one of this thread - 3/4 of prison inmates being black as if this proves your point."

The incarceration rate for murder may or may not be skewed toward blacks. I don't know, as I haven't looked for the data. That's also why I didn't argue that. What I argued, and what data confirms, is that the incarceration rate for shooting another human being to death skews away from police regardless of the race of the victim, and that when police use deadly force against an unarmed individual, he is far more likely to be black than white. Therefore, blacks live at the intersection of these two issues.

More to the point, there is ample evidence that black Americans are sentenced to prison more often and for longer than white Americans for the same crimes, especially low-level drug infractions. That's why the incarceration rate of blacks is an issue, and one that dovetails inextricably with a socioeconomic reality born out of the black experience in America from the middle passage to today.

You don't have to like my posts. I don't mind. But you don't get to pretend that the problems experienced in Black society in America aren't real because of some hand-picked stats about Chicago in 2015.
 
no one has mentioned the intial claim which was that the photo indicated support for black lives matter, if so this is clearly inappropriate. Absent any explanation from those involved guess we are left to make our own interpretation
 
no one has mentioned the intial claim which was that the photo indicated support for black lives matter, if so this is clearly inappropriate. Absent any explanation from those involved guess we are left to make our own interpretation
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USMA has resolved this issue finding that the photo was inappropriate but not political:

http://www.armytimes.com/story/mili...oto-inappropriate-but-not-political/84196326/

This information has been overshadowed by the off-topic discussion above. Not sure why this thread is still open as it does not appear to be serving any useful purpose.
 
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