CSO or Pilot

[F22>F35]

Hi y’all, I was wondering which one (in your opinion) is harder to become. This won’t affect my decision but I’m just trying to get some more information on CSO because I’m in between the two in what I want to do should I join the Air Force.

thanks!

 

[Physicsguru]

If you're a pilot, you can fly anything. If you're a CSO, you're limited to two seaters. Mind you, I was a Navy back-seater, so I preferred being the brains of the airplane.

I'll let one of the USAF folks address the career aspects.

 

[Tex232]

Pilot has traditionally been the most sought after so you could maybe say the most "difficult". Navigators usually get little to no stick time so if you want to have a career in the cockpit after you leave the service, then pilot is the way to go. Occasionally, student pilots who wash out of the pipeline are offered the opportunity to become CSO’s. Also, correction to what @Physicsguru said, you're not necessarily limited to two seaters as a navigator. Depending on what airframe you get, you could end up in heavies or bombers which also have CSO's.

 

[Army Al]

The AF will allow you to upgrade from CSO to pilot. But, never the opposite. For AF career advancement, being a pilot will always have the edge over CSO. NO CSOs as the Chief of Staff in its AF history.

 

[AROTC-dad]

Mod Note:
Moving this thread to the "Life After the Academy" forum.

 

[sam2580]

The AF will allow you to upgrade from CSO to pilot. But, never the opposite. For AF career advancement, being a pilot will always have the edge over CSO. NO CSOs as the Chief of Staff in its AF history.

How easy is it to switch from CSO to pilot when an age would be required ?

 

[CrewDad BGO]

CSO, WSO, EWO to Pilot all possible. But those who decide to switch early in their career usually make the switch within 1-2 years after FRS and while in their first tour while being a back sitter. How hard? It depends on the demand and the needs at the time. Not many apply to switch to Pilot, however. There’s few reasons why. One, if you want to pursue a long term career in the Navy or the Air Force, making the switch can hold you back with the rest of your class to be competitive for the O-6 and even to Flag Officer Appointment. Most who switch end up retiring after O-5 because of this.

Good thing is that there is a big need for more pilots in the Navy and the Air Force. So the chance is good. But, in the Navy, I am told about 3 switch to Pilot on average each year. And the priority is given to those who have strong FITREP and would plan to come back to the same squadron. So if you’re a CSO on F15 and want to fly the F22 or F35 at a different squadron, perhaps, that can be more challenging. You can reapply if you don’t get it after first application.

You can also leave the Air Force as a CSO and join ANG. This way you can go to UPT with a choice of aircraft you want to fly with a guarantee. As a CSO, you are already trained in everything except the stick time. To be most competitive, both the Air Force and the Navy like to see that you already have PPL which shows basic airmanship and motivation. You can also go straight to Primary to fly the T6 (Navy) or the T7 (Air Force).

I believe you can switch up to the age 35 at the time you start UPT. With a special age waiver even up to 38. Those who switch after WSO, EWO, CSO, do so at age 30. Your age depends on when you got your wings. But I wouldn’t wait too long to switch if you plan to make the switch.

The process is complicated so if you want to learn more about this, you should sign up for BogiDope.com. A lot of info there on this topic.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

I’m in between the two in what I want to do should I join the Air Force.

Aren't you putting the cart before the Horse ? If you are applying for Air Force, get in first then select whatever field.
As an aside, if interested in CSO rather than pilot consider Navy. I am certainly not an expert, but my BGO (a long time ago) gave me the advice that career opportunities are more limited as an Air Force WSO /CSO than a Navy NFO.

To be most competitive, both the Air Force and the Navy like to see that you already have PPL which shows basic airmanship and motivation.

I've never heard that from an official source, and in fact have heard the opposite since its easier to train someone from scratch than to unteach bad habits. I had a PPL before attending USNA -- the one advantage I think it gave me in NFO training was that I was already comfortable in the air and could focus on learning the platform and mission rather than be distracted by the thrill of flying.

 

[Usnavy2019]

I think it is hard to say which one is harder to become. While they are both flying, pilots are obviously more concerned with the aviating of the aircraft. CSOs are primarily concerned with weapon/sesnor operations. So while you are flying, your main focus is operating what's on board, not stuff like where the jet is headed and stuff like that. Also, navigators are increasingly a dying breed. To my knowledge, the only two USAF aircraft that carry navigators on the flight deck at the VC-25 and the E-4B.

 

[Thompson]

I've never heard that from an official source, and in fact have heard the opposite since its easier to train someone from scratch than to unteach bad habits.

That's because you'll never hear it from an official source

CrewDad is right - Air Force Reserve Command and National Guard Squadrons will (unofficially) use a PPL as a quantitative form of demonstrated airmanship and motivation as an indicator to make it through IPT/UPT/PIQ. With that being said like all testing - it's not necessarily a correlative indicator of a person's ability to then pass through AF flight school.

It's no longer relevant anymore - however - AFRC/ANG Squadrons would (unofficially) use a UPT hire's PPL as a way to exempt them from having to go through IFT (since money is a big deal in Reserve Components).

And also - with the post-COVID hiring frenzy at the airlines - you now have many applicants who have their PPL, IFR, Commercial, etc. So now it purely becomes something to have just to stay competitive and make it to the final round (interviews).