Does the type of high school have any bearing in the selection process?

[Skimama]

Good morning everyone! I've been reviewing the threads for a while now and I haven't really found an answer to a pressing question on my mind and DS' mind. He is currently a junior at a competitive high school in our district and the only Project Lead the Way Engineering school with other STEM accreditations (Distinguished PLTW,PRIME and AdvancED).

He is not in the 10% of the class, but he's an Eagle Scout and has a lot of other leadership through the JROTC program (with medals) and letters in Marksmanship and Color Guard. His SAT is 640 Reading / 680 Math. He's working on his PFE. He's thinking about retaking the SAT, but not sure. His unweighted GPA is 3.5, but he's taking a lot of AP classes, including Calc and Physics. He's also taking engineering classes.

My question is, I know his GPA isn't in the 3.8 range but does the type of H.S. he attend make a difference? We are trying to come up with a plan to make the strongest application he can and everyone keeps telling us the High School will make a difference, we just don't want to put too much weight in that.

Sorry for the long post - he's spent hours combing through the discussion threads trying to come up with the next part of his plan.

 

[2022mom]

Good morning everyone! I've been reviewing the threads for a while now and I haven't really found an answer to a pressing question on my mind and DS' mind. He is currently a junior at a competitive high school in our district and the only Project Lead the Way Engineering school with other STEM accreditations (Distinguished PLTW,PRIME and AdvancED).

He is not in the 10% of the class, but he's an Eagle Scout and has a lot of other leadership through the JROTC program (with medals) and letters in Marksmanship and Color Guard. His SAT is 640 Reading / 680 Math. He's working on his PFE. He's thinking about retaking the SAT, but not sure. His unweighted GPA is 3.5, but he's taking a lot of AP classes, including Calc and Physics. He's also taking engineering classes.

My question is, I know his GPA isn't in the 3.8 range but does the type of H.S. he attend make a difference? We are trying to come up with a plan to make the strongest application he can and everyone keeps telling us the High School will make a difference, we just don't want to put too much weight in that.

Sorry for the long post - he's spent hours combing through the discussion threads trying to come up with the next part of his plan.

I don’t see any harm in taking the SAT again or trying the ACT. If his GPA is on the low side a high test score could help.

 

[YellowRoseofTexas]

When you apply, your counselor sends a report about the school so that admissions can take rigor into consideration.

 

[Skimama]

Good morning everyone! I've been reviewing the threads for a while now and I haven't really found an answer to a pressing question on my mind and DS' mind. He is currently a junior at a competitive high school in our district and the only Project Lead the Way Engineering school with other STEM accreditations (Distinguished PLTW,PRIME and AdvancED).

He is not in the 10% of the class, but he's an Eagle Scout and has a lot of other leadership through the JROTC program (with medals) and letters in Marksmanship and Color Guard. His SAT is 640 Reading / 680 Math. He's working on his PFE. He's thinking about retaking the SAT, but not sure. His unweighted GPA is 3.5, but he's taking a lot of AP classes, including Calc and Physics. He's also taking engineering classes.

My question is, I know his GPA isn't in the 3.8 range but does the type of H.S. he attend make a difference? We are trying to come up with a plan to make the strongest application he can and everyone keeps telling us the High School will make a difference, we just don't want to put too much weight in that.

Sorry for the long post - he's spent hours combing through the discussion threads trying to come up with the next part of his plan.

Good morning everyone! I've been reviewing the threads for a while now and I haven't really found an answer to a pressing question on my mind and DS' mind. He is currently a junior at a competitive high school in our district and the only Project Lead the Way Engineering school with other STEM accreditations (Distinguished PLTW,PRIME and AdvancED).

He is not in the 10% of the class, but he's an Eagle Scout and has a lot of other leadership through the JROTC program (with medals) and letters in Marksmanship and Color Guard. His SAT is 640 Reading / 680 Math. He's working on his PFE. He's thinking about retaking the SAT, but not sure. His unweighted GPA is 3.5, but he's taking a lot of AP classes, including Calc and Physics. He's also taking engineering classes.

My question is, I know his GPA isn't in the 3.8 range but does the type of H.S. he attend make a difference? We are trying to come up with a plan to make the strongest application he can and everyone keeps telling us the High School will make a difference, we just don't want to put too much weight in that.

Sorry for the long post - he's spent hours combing through the discussion threads trying to come up with the next part of his plan.

I don’t see any harm in taking the SAT again or trying the ACT. If his GPA is on the low side a high test score could help.

When you apply, your counselor sends a report about the school so that admissions can take rigor into consideration.

Good morning everyone! I've been reviewing the threads for a while now and I haven't really found an answer to a pressing question on my mind and DS' mind. He is currently a junior at a competitive high school in our district and the only Project Lead the Way Engineering school with other STEM accreditations (Distinguished PLTW,PRIME and AdvancED).

He is not in the 10% of the class, but he's an Eagle Scout and has a lot of other leadership through the JROTC program (with medals) and letters in Marksmanship and Color Guard. His SAT is 640 Reading / 680 Math. He's working on his PFE. He's thinking about retaking the SAT, but not sure. His unweighted GPA is 3.5, but he's taking a lot of AP classes, including Calc and Physics. He's also taking engineering classes.

My question is, I know his GPA isn't in the 3.8 range but does the type of H.S. he attend make a difference? We are trying to come up with a plan to make the strongest application he can and everyone keeps telling us the High School will make a difference, we just don't want to put too much weight in that.

Sorry for the long post - he's spent hours combing through the discussion threads trying to come up with the next part of his plan.

Good morning everyone! I've been reviewing the threads for a while now and I haven't really found an answer to a pressing question on my mind and DS' mind. He is currently a junior at a competitive high school in our district and the only Project Lead the Way Engineering school with other STEM accreditations (Distinguished PLTW,PRIME and AdvancED).

He is not in the 10% of the class, but he's an Eagle Scout and has a lot of other leadership through the JROTC program (with medals) and letters in Marksmanship and Color Guard. His SAT is 640 Reading / 680 Math. He's working on his PFE. He's thinking about retaking the SAT, but not sure. His unweighted GPA is 3.5, but he's taking a lot of AP classes, including Calc and Physics. He's also taking engineering classes.

My question is, I know his GPA isn't in the 3.8 range but does the type of H.S. he attend make a difference? We are trying to come up with a plan to make the strongest application he can and everyone keeps telling us the High School will make a difference, we just don't want to put too much weight in that.

Sorry for the long post - he's spent hours combing through the discussion threads trying to come up with the next part of his plan.

I don’t see any harm in taking the SAT again or trying the ACT. If his GPA is on the low side a high test score could help.

When you apply, your counselor sends a report about the school so that admissions can take rigor into consideration.

Thank you! I forgot to mention his weighted GPA is 5.06 but I know that doesn’t matter - they always convert it back to a 4.0 scale- it’s just nerve wracking trying to be a crystal ball. Either way- he’s a kids of service and discipline and he will find a way.

 

[CrewDad]

I think you have a very good question and a valid concern. This topic did come up many times in this SAF over the last 12 months. I even addressed my point of view along with others.

My quick answer to that is your son’s SAT or ACT has to be above his class average as a starting point. And the school SAT Average is expected to be a lot higher than other local school average.

If you want the SAs to acknowledge the difficulty of your school then he needs to produce a better SAT or ACT to start. So yes he should retake his SAT or ACT.

Normally magnet or STEM school candidates have higher SATs or ACTs. I have seen ranges from 1400-1500 as their school average.

Now that your DS currently has 1320, I would think that puts him at below average at his school. That’s not a good start. He should in any case get his scores to 700+ in all sections. Same for ACT 30+ in all sections. I think he may have hard time in ACT English and Reading and Writing but he should take a crack at it to see how he does in ACT. ACT Science is really reading comprehension with science content.

Once he has his scores in that range, the SAs will assess the classes he took and how he challenged himself. In my days in high school I went to a STEM school myself in NYC. The school is ranked in top 50 range nationally. At this school if I pulled 1400 I would be below average in the class size of 1200. The school SAT Average is 1500. So that means I would have to produce something better if I am competing against my classmates coming from the same district. Similarly this is how you have to look at it.

Benefit of attending STEM School is only when they assess your class rank with high SAT. You can be ranked 20-30 percentile in your class with 3.5 as long as you have high SAT. I think that would be fine. But this is the same for all applicants to SAs. So long as you have high SAT that puts you in the safe zone academically.

What works for you may not work for others. Vice versa. There is no single formula. But having attended a STEM School and competed with my classmates for a spot at SA, I can share you my experience that only way to find yourself ahead academically is to be ahead in SAT or ACT compared to your class. So I would like to strongly encourage your son to retake his SAT or try ACT and get all sections past 700+ or 30+. I hope this was helpful.

To further strengthen your DS app, he should also have couple of team sports and captainship in one of the sports he did. Recommend he does Boys State for sure!

I think I will stop here and let others chime in.

 

[VelveteenR]

All of @CrewDad's comments are spot on. I don't see much more to add. GPAs are corroborated by standardized test scores. Our son was only in the top third of his class, but his SAT was well above 1500 as it was for all of the others in that bracket which spoke to the rigor of his well-known boarding school. In that context, his GPA "made sense" and did not penalize him.

OTOH, I posted in another thread that touched on the academic quality at the academies something a department head told our son:

A colonel explained to him that the SAs value a combination of brains, brawn, and leadership somewhat equally. Only about one third of the incoming class is selected for academics; the other 2/3rds are chosen for other equally shiny traits. All are academically capable, but only that third is what you might label as “scholarly.”

Your son should work to improve his standardized test scores as much as he can, but he appears to be academically capable. He is certainly not out of the running and may be selected for one of those other equally shiny traits. Ultimately, all any candidate can do is put together the best application s/he can and let the chips fall where they may. Best of luck to him.

 

[jl123]

My question is, I know his GPA isn't in the 3.8 range but does the type of H.S. he attend make a difference? We are trying to come up with a plan to make the strongest application he can and everyone keeps telling us the High School will make a difference, we just don't want to put too much weight in that.

Yes and no. When calculating objective scores your son will be at a disadvantage because his class rank and grades will be lower than if he attended a less competitive school. Even if his class rank is calculated on test scores, it is still difficult to objectively compare coursework between schools. A regular course at a strong school may be more rigorous than an AP course at a weaker school. Test scores will go a long way in reconciling differences - AP test scores as well as standardized test scores.

Also, admissions officers usually have discretion to take such factors into consideration. Assuming USCGA operates similar to the other SA's, regional admissions officers will be familiar with schools in their regions and, along with the school profile, be able to make an appropriate adjustment. A few years ago a USMA candidate was appointed even though she was in the bottom 10% of her class. But she was one of the most academically capable of all the appointees - she attended a small, very competitive, high school that sent almost the entire class to Ivy league or equivalent colleges.

 

[Skimama]

I think you have a very good question and a valid concern. This topic did come up many times in this SAF over the last 12 months. I even addressed my point of view along with others.

My quick answer to that is your son’s SAT or ACT has to be above his class average as a starting point. And the school SAT Average is expected to be a lot higher than other local school average.

If you want the SAs to acknowledge the difficulty of your school then he needs to produce a better SAT or ACT to start. So yes he should retake his SAT or ACT.

Normally magnet or STEM school candidates have higher SATs or ACTs. I have seen ranges from 1400-1500 as their school average.

Now that your DS currently has 1320, I would think that puts him at below average at his school. That’s not a good start. He should in any case get his scores to 700+ in all sections. Same for ACT 30+ in all sections. I think he may have hard time in ACT English and Reading and Writing but he should take a crack at it to see how he does in ACT. ACT Science is really reading comprehension with science content.

Once he has his scores in that range, the SAs will assess the classes he took and how he challenged himself. In my days in high school I went to a STEM school myself in NYC. The school is ranked in top 50 range nationally. At this school if I pulled 1400 I would be below average in the class size of 1200. The school SAT Average is 1500. So that means I would have to produce something better if I am competing against my classmates coming from the same district. Similarly this is how you have to look at it.

Benefit of attending STEM School is only when they assess your class rank with high SAT. You can be ranked 20-30 percentile in your class with 3.5 as long as you have high SAT. I think that would be fine. But this is the same for all applicants to SAs. So long as you have high SAT that puts you in the safe zone academically.

What works for you may not work for others. Vice versa. There is no single formula. But having attended a STEM School and competed with my classmates for a spot at SA, I can share you my experience that only way to find yourself ahead academically is to be ahead in SAT or ACT compared to your class. So I would like to strongly encourage your son to retake his SAT or try ACT and get all sections past 700+ or 30+. I hope this was helpful.

To further strengthen your DS app, he should also have couple of team sports and captainship in one of the sports he did. Recommend he does Boys State for sure!

I think I will stop here and let others chime in.

Thank you! All great insight and he's already decided to take the SAT again. He's not attending Boys State since it's the same week as the USNASS. UGH! This is tough.

 

[Skimama]

My question is, I know his GPA isn't in the 3.8 range but does the type of H.S. he attend make a difference? We are trying to come up with a plan to make the strongest application he can and everyone keeps telling us the High School will make a difference, we just don't want to put too much weight in that.

Yes and no. When calculating objective scores your son will be at a disadvantage because his class rank and grades will be lower than if he attended a less competitive school. Even if his class rank is calculated on test scores, it is still difficult to objectively compare coursework between schools. A regular course at a strong school may be more rigorous than an AP course at a weaker school. Test scores will go a long way in reconciling differences - AP test scores as well as standardized test scores.

Also, admissions officers usually have discretion to take such factors into consideration. Assuming USCGA operates similar to the other SA's, regional admissions officers will be familiar with schools in their regions and, along with the school profile, be able to make an appropriate adjustment. A few years ago a USMA candidate was appointed even though she was in the bottom 10% of her class. But she was one of the most academically capable of all the appointees - she attended a small, very competitive, high school that sent almost the entire class to Ivy league or equivalent colleges.

Thank you! He realizes he still has some work to do, the boy is driven. I think what's most important is that he does his best and has no regrets.

 

[CrewDad]

Skimama. Very nice. If I may, I would like to advise your son to go to Boys State and apply for CVW at USNA instead. Don’t miss Boys State but he can miss NASS. You get additional admissions points for Boys State but not for NASS. But be sure to attend CVW as he will experience the real USNA. He will get to do overnight with a Mid and be a Plebe for 1.5 days.

My son didn’t get selected to NASS but attended USMA USAFA summer. He got invited to CVW and loved it. Mids treat you like a friend during your stay. He was on the fence but CVW helped him sway his decision to USNA. My son has an Appointment to USNA and most likely will accept the Appointment if there’s no big changes.

 

[Skimama]

Skimama. Very nice. If I may, I would like to advise your son to go to Boys State and apply for CVW at USNA instead. Don’t miss Boys State but he can miss NASS. You get additional admissions points for Boys State but not for NASS. But be sure to attend CVW as he will experience the real USNA. He will get to do overnight with a Mid and be a Plebe for 1.5 days.

My son didn’t get selected to NASS but attended USMA USAFA summer. He got invited to CVW and loved it. Mids treat you like a friend during your stay. He was on the fence but CVW helped him sway his decision to USNA. My son has an Appointment to USNA and most likely will accept the Appointment if there’s no big changes.

Thanks again, unfortunately, Boys State is not going to happen since he's already made the plans. Wish we knew a little more a little earlier, but we were trying not to be "nutty" about the whole process.

 

[New@This]

My son chose NASS over Boys State last year. We knew it would probably cost him points but in the end it was the best choice for him. He was originally thinking USMA or AROTC would be his first (and maybe only) choice. But his time at NASS and AIM (Coast Guard) really swayed him to the maritime services over Army. That, in and of itself, was priceless. He also took the CFA while there and knocked it out of the park. Competing against others in the NASS environment really pushed him competitively rather than just running laps on a track by himself.

 

[Skimama]

My son chose NASS over Boys State last year. We knew it would probably cost him points but in the end it was the best choice for him. He was originally thinking USMA or AROTC would be his first (and maybe only) choice. But his time at NASS and AIM (Coast Guard) really swayed him to the maritime services over Army. That, in and of itself, was priceless. He also took the CFA while there and knocked it out of the park. Competing against others in the NASS environment really pushed him competitively rather than just running laps on a track by himself.

Thank you! I think that's a huge benefit of attending the summer sessions, so many young people think they want a path and realize once they are there, they realize it's not what they envisioned. I'm glad my son has the opportunity to see the Naval Academy to gain more perspective.

 

[CrewDad]

Yes all good. Enjoy the journey!