DQ Missing teeth

Jmoney457 said:
I'm probably going to get mine removed...but this is the Dental Evaluation form:

http://www.usmma.edu/sites/usmma.edu/files/docs/Record of Dental Examination For Third Molar Status.pdf

It clearly says that if the 3rd molars still exist, a waiver of financial responsibility from the parents is required, as well as a letter from the dentist explaining that the specifications of the plebe's jaw are good (there is enough space) and the teeth are asymptomatic/not causing infections.

There is no explicit requirement here to get them removed. And there's just no way that the academy can "Require" everyone to have their wisdom teeth removed. The removal of wisdom teeth is major dental surgery, and if said surgery is contraindicated or suggested unnecessary by dental professionals, and the teeth themselves are asymptomatic/free of disease or infection, there is no way that the academy can force anyone to have their wisdom teeth removed. And of course, the academy knows this, which is why they have the waiver form....If it was in fact true that everyone was 'required' to have their wisdom teeth removed, then they would've just said do not report with wisdom teeth in place. Just to make the distinction, a suggestion is not a requirement.

Not trying to be a dick, and as I said I'm going to get mine removed, but everyone here should understand the inherent risks of major surgery and the use of anesthetics, and that 60% of wisdom teeth removals are completely unnecessary. The bottom line is that wisdom teeth removals are a boon for the dental industry, so the dental industry usually advocates having them removed....

You and your dentist should make this decision (not a federal bureaucrat), and possibly an independent dentist who doesn't have a vested financial interest in whether or not you go ahead with the procedure.
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Uh, that's what I thought- not a requirement...
 
cmakin said:
I often wonder how many incidents of impacted wisdom teeth occurred before this was made mandatory. To be honest, in 10 years at sea, I don't recall ever having anyone onboard any vessel I sailed on having an issue with it. It certainly wasn't a requirement during my sea year (in the late 70s). Meh, it is what it is, but I am one who doesn't feel someone should be cut on needlessly. I would think that having a burst appendix is more common. . . . . good luck to all. . .
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Lets not give them any ideas of what other body parts the plebes/mids should remove prior to INDOC or the sea year :D


@ Jmoney457

I am looking for the source right now, but I am 100% sure, you required to do so prior to sea year.
They state its not mandatory, since if you will have them in, they will be extracted at KP prior to sailing...
 
If that's true then they've created a slippery slope....As @cmakin said, are they going to ask for people to remove everything from their bodies that could cause problems at sea?
 
Jmoney457 said:
If that's true then they've created a slippery slope....As @cmakin said, are they going to ask for people to remove everything from their bodies that could cause problems at sea?
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Ok, rereading it over and over, AND searching this forum in DODMERB section - cmaking is correct, the academy requires to remove wisdom teeth when there is a concern that any of them might infected.
 
Putting my legal hat on, I think that the private shipping companies whose ships we would work on could require wisdom teeth removal as a prerequisite to 'employment' as we will be drawing a monthly salary from them.

The private shipping companies have a vested interest in operating with as few interruptions as possible, and if this is something which has created problems in the past (although, as @cmakin said it's not common) then they would be within their rights to require it.

Not sure if this is a requirement from the academy itself or the private shipping companies, although I don't think most shipping companies could care less whether a kid has a couple of teeth still in his or her mouth.
 
...as a "mom". What I KNOW is that the wisdom teeth removal is a BIG requirement before you go to sea. It is NOT required at INDOC, but be aware your future “break” (Fall/Winter/Spring) would be the suggested time to complete the requirement to be ready for “sea term”.

I think it does have to do with cadets working on commercial shipping vessels.

I believe, most dentists agree that removing them on a prophylactic basis is an accepted practice.

I suggest not getting so upset about the “legal” aspect of this. Being a Plebe Candidate will make you wonder about your civil “rights” on several occasions. If you are not up to the task and your “civil liberties” are more important than serving the country as a Merchant Marine then USMMA may not be for you.

This is a tough school and a tough environment, the pride of completing the four year and completing licensing and being graduated is well deserved.

17TexasMom
 
17TexasMom,
This is a very good way of looking at it. DS is excited and can't wait to go there. We looked at indoc pictures and the physical training, he said it looks like fun summer camp :)
When he already got in and has a chance to fulfill his long time dream to become a Naval Architect, and to construct ships with opportunity to serve his country, its a dream come true for him, so afraid to mess it up with some technicality.
 
Yes it is, its under Marine Engineering Systems , he want to major in it and minor in Nuclear Engineering. To be an architect he will need a graduate degree. That will put him on a path to a career to design and build ships/submarines etc...
 
17TexasMom said:
If you are not up to the task and your “civil liberties” are more important than serving the country as a Merchant Marine then USMMA may not be for you.
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Now I feel like this was unnecessary, I said before (previous messages) that I was going to get them removed anyways....

I just (philosophically and medically) see this as a requirement that's probably unnecessary in 99% of cases....And many here have agreed (like @cmakin who's probably had decades of experience in the maritime industry).

Of course dentists will say that wisdom teeth removal is a good thing, because procedures like that are the most lucrative component of any dental practice.
 
This is an excerpt of an article that appeared in the New York Times:

"But scientific evidence supporting the routine prophylactic extraction of wisdom teeth is surprisingly scant, and in some countries the practice has been abandoned. “Everybody is at risk for appendicitis, but do you take out everyone’s appendix?” said Dr. Greg J. Huang, chairman of orthodontics at the University of Washington in Seattle. “I’m not against removing wisdom teeth, but you should do an assessment and have a good clinical reason.'"
 
Another relevant excerpt:

"Britain’s National Health Service stopped paying for the procedure if there was no good reason for it after an analysis by its Center for Reviews and Dissemination at the University of York concluded in 1998 that there was no solid scientific evidence to support it. Also that year, the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh said that for patients who do not have a condition related to third molars or whose teeth would probably grow in successfully,removal is “not advisable.”"

And that's all I'm saying on this issue.
 
17TexasMom...so true...and when the entire company is out doing PT at 2300 because one plebe Candidate messed/screwed up or mouths off to the wrong person or thinks they know it all...the entire company will let them know in their own way to stop because they have to get up at zero dark 30 for more PT and they don't want or need any restrictions and they want to call home on Sunday for 5 mins and if you keep being a knucklehead we will all lose that chance to call home and their parents (MOM) will be ticked and upset that they can't talk to them because of your attitude...then the loud mouth/know it all will not have liberty at parents weekend or acceptance weekend and they will get to watch the rest of their company/class mates leave the academy with smiles on their faces...
 
@BuckeyeGuy rest assured I'm not that guy. I'm way too shy/introverted in person to express my opinions to a level which would be disrespectful. On the internet is another story.
 
Jmoney457 said:
Another relevant excerpt:

"Britain’s National Health Service stopped paying for the procedure if there was no good reason for it after an analysis by its Center for Reviews and Dissemination at the University of York concluded in 1998 that there was no solid scientific evidence to support it. Also that year, the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh said that for patients who do not have a condition related to third molars or whose teeth would probably grow in successfully,removal is “not advisable.”"

And that's all I'm saying on this issue.
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But see, that's the thing with trying to apply a broad overview to a very specific case. Sure, in the general population the regular removal of wisdom teeth is probably not necessary...but you can't necessarily apply that to the small subset of the population who spends months at sea at a time, potentially with weeks between ports with the nearest dentist being days, if not a week, away. Oh, but you may say the US Navy doesn't require it of it's sailors, well true, but the US Navy also has dentists on board their large deck ships. They also have at least Independent Duty Corpsmen on every ship. A merchant ship at sea is a different beast.

So, how do we apply this. Well how many sets of teeth do we need to remove to prevent 1 death or serious morbidity? Is the risk of removing "non problem teeth" in a controlled environment more than having one bad outcome in the middle of the ocean? I don't know the answer. But the debate isn't as easy as saying well, see, these people say it's not necessary. True, but they are looking at the macro scale, not the micro world of the Merchant Marine.
 
kp2001 said:
Is the risk of removing "non problem teeth" in a controlled environment more than having one bad outcome in the middle of the ocean?
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Well, of course there is inherent risks in the use of anesthesia (however minute), and a more serious risk of post operative infections which might not be followed properly...

Can anybody actually find a record of one person dying at sea because of his/her wisdom teeth not being extracted prior to going underway?

Of course the cumulative downside of everyone's wisdom teeth being removed is greater than the upside which there is no actual record of.

And that begs the question, an acute appendicitis at sea represents a far greater risk of death. Should we (thinking micro here) have all of our appendixes removed?
 
Although each argument seems valid, we should understand that such logic of somewhat risky or unnecessary preventative measure can be taken further to immunization for example... blood tests, etc...
Seems like the Academy position is clear - if there is a sign of impacted third molar - it should come out prior to sea year.
So to summarize the discussion on a practical basis - as a parent, I am very much against any unnecessary medical treatment due to the risks, but I also fear every time he is driving since motor vehicles crashes are the leading cause of death for teens in US...
My son decided and worked hard toward his goal of attending the academy, he is also NROTC scholarship recipient - with heavy heart we realize that it comes with a risk... risk of being involved in a combat, risk of basically being shot...
With that said, to make it as easy as possible on us, I prefer to take care of the third molar while he is at home, so I can take care of him post surgery, and not to have him stuck somewhere in a third world country with impacted tooth... or even on his Christmas break in Kings Point sitting at a surgeon office in order to be cleared for Sea year...

@Jmoney457
You will be fine in USMMA, my DS often plays devil's advocate in discussions in attempt for others to look at the issue from all angels.. I think its engineering way of thinking ;)
 
Jmoney457 said:
Britain’s National Health Service
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That right there is reason enough to take the advice and get your wisdom teeth pulled. I don't hear much that's positive about the UK's NHS, but regardless, the quality of English dentistry is on display among its subjects. If British dentists advise something, I'd do the opposite. Maybe you'll have the opportunity to meet some limey sailors during your sea year travels and see what I mean.
 
Jmoney457 said:
Can anybody actually find a record of one person dying at sea because of his/her wisdom teeth not being extracted prior to going underway?
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Death isn't the only possible morbidity or risk involved. There is also a significant monetary risk involved to the shipping companies who in reality don't have to take cadets.

Of course the cumulative downside of everyone's wisdom teeth being removed is greater than the upside which there is no actual record of.
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Not necessarily. A lack of evidence doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exist. The studies that would be required likely won't ever be done.

And that begs the question, an acute appendicitis at sea represents a far greater risk of death. Should we (thinking micro here) have all of our appendixes removed?
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The mortality/morbidity of an abdominal surgery requiring general surgery is higher than that required for routine molar extraction.

I'm not 100% convinced that molar extraction is completely necessary; however, there are points to both sides and it's not as clear cut as one might think at first glance hence my comments on the topic.
 
For what it is worth, several members of the Class of 2018 did not have their wisdom teeth removed prior to Indoc. The "academy (not sure exactly what employee/department) determined that the wisdom teeth would have to go before sea year could commence. These Plebes missed classes to have the surgery done and then had to recuperate at the Academy while juggling their athletic, academic, and regimental responsibilities. We thought long and hard about this as a family and decided to have them removed asap after DS accepted his appointment. He recently said it was the right decision after watching what a few of his class members endured.
 
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