Enlisting First to Gain Respect

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40Arriving

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Jul 6, 2022
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Good morning, I have an interesting question. I heard that new officers don't have any respect, since they are less experienced. Would it be wise to enlist to gain respect, before doing West Point or OTS? I would like to do Special Forces.
 
That is a long and winding path to a commission.

If you look at the class profiles, you’ll see what portion of the class has that background. Not the majority. Prior enlisted are certainly respected, but they are generally just as new to junior officer skills as someone right out of HS or a college re-applicant.

If you’ve been talking to an enlisted recruiter, and they are enthusiastically promoting the idea, remember their mission, quite legitimate, is to make their monthly quota of enlisted recruits, not convince strong candidates to apply to a commissioning program.

At USMA and AROTC, you’ll be exposed to the demanding academics of your college degree, formal professional training and informal exposure to a carefully selected group of officers of various ranks, branches, and top quality senior enlisted leaders. These two routes have proven very successful over the years, taking 17 year olds from the most unmilitary backgrounds and delivering well-trained, ready to go junior officers to the Army.

And no one expects an O-1 (2nd LT pay grade) to know much of anything, regardless of commissioning path. Senior enlisted leaders have broken in new officers for generations, and your troops won’t care how you got your butter bars, as long as you treat them fairly and respect them for their skills and accomplishments.
 
The enlisted don’t respect prior enlisted , now commissioned officers , because they were priors , they respect them because they are good.

Good officers will always get respect. And no,one cares where those good officers came from.

But as far as special forces.

If you want to be a full time operator then enlisted might be the way to go. If you want to manage full time operators then the commissioned route is the way to go.

Officers are rarely the people kicking in the doors
 
This actually gives me two questions. Do officers in the Army Special Forces do the shooting? Or only enlisted? Also, does the Marine Corps have more Special Forces units?
 
Boeingaircraft787 said:
This actually gives me two questions. Do officers in the Army Special Forces do the shooting? Or only enlisted? Also, does the Marine Corps have more Special Forces units?
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I looked at this for one of mine who was considering enlisting on a SEAL contract vs USNA.

In my day teams were lead by officers and NCOs. Usually the officers were getting a little experience , sometimes for a few months, the enlisted were doing what they were going to do.

Everything I read and hear about today is that small teams are usually enlisted. The team is lead by an officer who is likely back in the rear working the radio and an enlisted nco leading in the field. Both important jobs.

USMC has ——Bn Recon, Force Recon, Marsoc. All require similar skills . I don’t know if you can enlist on a marsoc contract but there has been an enlistment contract for recon. All that means is that you are for sure going to get a shot at recon not that you will be in recon.

You don’t make it in recon you then likely have the single most important job in the USMC——0311 infantry.

I know that Army also has an enlistment contract for ranger . Like the Corps it only give you the fast track opportunity to try out.

If I really wanted to be a kick in the door operator I’d strongly consider enlisting.

Then hope I actually liked it, and it turned out like I had wished it would :)
 
Boeingaircraft787 said:
This actually gives me two questions. Do officers in the Army Special Forces do the shooting? Or only enlisted? Also, does the Marine Corps have more Special Forces units?
Click to expand...
The Marine Corps has its own special operations forces (SOF) under the Marine Special Operations Command., but they are not referred to as Special Forces.

Special Forces refers specifically to a unit of US Army Special Operations Command, like Army Rangers.

Although there is some overlap between SF and MARSOC missions--they may end of operating together--there is a lot which doss not.

Like @Small Team Bacsi says SF Officers would rarely kick down doors, but they may end of doing a certain amount of shooting.
 
Boeingaircraft787 said:
Do officers in the Army Special Forces do the shooting? Or only enlisted?
Click to expand...
Ask Major Mark Nutsch.
www.militarytimes.com

How the ‘Horse Soldiers’ helped liberate Afghanistan from the Taliban 18 years ago

On Oct. 19, 2001, a team of 12 Green Berets with the 5th Special Forces Group's Operational Detachment Alpha 595 were inserted into Afghanistan to liberate the region from the Taliban without tanks or trucks. Just horses.
www.militarytimes.com www.militarytimes.com

Or Captain William Doyle:
www.stripes.com

Green Beret’s Silver Star sheds light on US ground combat in Somalia

An Army Green Beret was instrumental in retaking a key al-Shabab stronghold during a brutal firefight six years ago, newly released records of his Silver Star award reveal.
www.stripes.com www.stripes.com

Or Captain William Albracht:
valor.militarytimes.com

William Albracht - Recipient -

valor.militarytimes.com valor.militarytimes.com

Granted the officers normally are leading and directing, but the nature of special ops can clearly lead to being in the thick of it.
 
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Who cares if new officers get no respect. That is how it works. The officers above them have little respect for them because they know nothing and the enlisted don't respect the new officer because they know nothing. Even if you were enlisted, you would still know nothing about being an officer. New officers are there to learn from both other officers and NCOs
 
There are many reasons to enlist, to gain respect is not one of them. You gain respect by setting a good example and being there when your buddies need you. I have met some pretty high ranking people that did not command much respect. Just saying ……… 😳
 
40Arriving said:
I heard that........
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My first question would be who did you hear that from? One thing you will find when applying to any SA is that well-meaning friends/relatives/neighbors or even your postal carrier will offer ALL sorts of opinions about the military even if they have NO idea what they are talking about. You can find lots of older threads here for all of the SA areas that describe enlisting as at best a roundabout way to attending an SA with no guarantees.
 
I am prior enlisted now serving as a commissioned officer. It was never my intention to go this route, it just so happened that I was able to use my medical profession to continue to serve as a commissioned officer. I actually know Guardsmen who serve as NCOs that are the same medical profession - they choose to use the Guard as an escape from the daily duties of being an active duty MS officer. Now, having said that..

I think you will find it more difficult if you try to enlist as a means to gain respect. Respect as a leader/officer/NCO is earned, not given. Yes, by regulation people are compelled to obey your orders, but they may not respect you. Simply having enlisted experience does not grant that. It is my belief that if you go this route, end up being appointed to USMA and then show up expecting/demanding respect simply because you were previously enlisted - you will be sorely lacking in both peers that respect you, and peers that will go the extra mile to help you.
 
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