General Lee's LOA?

[DevilDog]

Yes, because he lost.

Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Adams (et. al) were traitors to the Crown, but they won, so they are remembered as patriots.

Those great men created a new country of which Virginia was a big player.

 

[condor17]

Keep in mind that after the Gettysburg Address, the War became defined as a war over slavery, not a War of preserving/dividing the Union, hence "defending/protecting" the country is irrelevant.

BTW, it wasn't after the Gettysburg Address (which is one of my favorite historical speeches) that the war became partly about slavery, it was after the issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation on 1 Jan. 1863.

 

[condor17]

Luigi,
So, in this friendly debate, it all boils down to your point of view: whether or not the Southern States were a sovereign nation when they seceeded. In my view of the historical evidence, they were. in your view, they weren't. You won't convince me, and I won't convince you. In my experiance, when debates get to an impasse like this, its better to agree to disagree. (BTW, I'm not saying this because I don't have an answer to Luigi.) So, Luigi, I commend you on your debate skills.

 

[sprog]

Those great men created a new country of which Virginia was a big player.

Agreed. And if not for the help of the French in fighting the British, those men would have been swinging from ropes. Was it Franklin who said that signing the Declaration ensured that, if the British should win, "we will all hang together" (versus separately)? I think it was him. Also, it's an interesting point that we remember the founders as "great." If the British had crushed the colonists' rebellion, we would be reading (in UK English..complete with all sorts of unnecessary extra "u's") about the "traitors" who tried to break with Royal power.

I'm not defending Lee, just pointing out the perspective that military victory plays the biggest role in who is a patriot and who is a traitor. While I'm a VMI grad, I don't engage in hero-worship of CSA military leaders. Actually, I find the whole notion of the Confederacy to be repugnant beyond words. It pains me that there are still commemorations made at my school for Confederate dead, when I disagree completely with the cause for which they fought. I can respect the courage and the heroism of CSA soldiers (you can do this for troops who fought fiercely for the Third Reich, too..or for any group of talented soldiers), but not their cause. Ever.

 

[Luigi59]

Luigi,
So, in this friendly debate, it all boils down to your point of view: whether or not the Southern States were a sovereign nation when they seceeded. In my view of the historical evidence, they were. in your view, they weren't. You won't convince me, and I won't convince you. In my experiance, when debates get to an impasse like this, its better to agree to disagree. (BTW, I'm not saying this because I don't have an answer to Luigi.) So, Luigi, I commend you on your debate skills.

It's a fascinating topic that has been debated by historians for far longer than you and I.

If you have never read this novel (yes, it is fictional) I recommend it.

The Secret Trial of Robert E. Lee by Thomas Fleming.

As it sounds as though you are a history buff as I am, I think you would enjoy it.

 

[freedomtruck]

BTW, it wasn't after the Gettysburg Address (which is one of my favorite historical speeches) that the war became partly about slavery, it was after the issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation on 1 Jan. 1863.

Corrected. My fingers and mind weren't in sync.