Graduation Fact Sheet: c/o 2023

[aranders75]

For what it's worth, my son considered cross commissioning at USMA; however, since he didn't want to be considered a "second class cadet" (another way of saying - Not loyal to the army) for the remainder of his time at USMA, he opted not to try. IMHO, he would have been a better match for the USAF. I think that he now realizes that I may have been correct. Oh well, we live and we learn.

If you don’t mind me asking…why did your son feel he’d be a better match at USAF? DD is struggling right now between USMA and USAFA and any insights would be helpful. Thanks!

 

[Capt MJ]

If you don’t mind me asking…why did your son feel he’d be a better match at USAF? DD is struggling right now between USMA and USAFA and any insights would be helpful. Thanks!

I hope your DD is looking beyond USMA and USAFA to do her comparative analysis. The commissioning path, whether SA or ROTC, is a 4-year waystation, not the goal. She should be deep-diving into the officer paths available, determining if there are officer specialties which appeal to her, because that is where she will be spending at least 5+ years. If she can identify those, she can then reverse engineer to the path that gets her there.

The more visits, the better. If she applies to both, and is offered an appointment to both, then the decision can be made in the spring.

 

[aranders75]

I hope your DD is looking beyond USMA and USAFA to do her comparative analysis. The commissioning path, whether SA or ROTC, is a 4-year waystation, not the goal. She should be deep-diving into the officer paths available, determining if there are officer specialties which appeal to her, because that is where she will be spending at least 5+ years. If she can identify those, she can then reverse engineer to the path that gets her there.

The more visits, the better. If she applies to both, and is offered an appointment to both, then the decision can be made in the spring.

She’s applying to all! For the senator nominations she has to indicate which is her top choice and she’s trying to decide between the two to place at the top. She has her pros/cons lists for all and the list is mostly life AFTER the SA. She’s leaning towards AF but any other factors she could consider that she hasn’t uncovered are always helpful. Thanks!

 

[Luke Gs Dad]

921 walked the stage. Reports 919 graduating. Quite possible this list was made before Grad keep that in mind.

So, a little more than 200 did not make it. What would be some of the reasons why? Seems like a lot of non graduates for a bunch of smart people.
Thanks.

 

[Capt MJ]

So, a little more than 200 did not make it. What would be some of the reasons why? Seems like a lot of non graduates for a bunch of smart people.
Thanks.

Involuntary separations can occur for reasons related to medical, academic, conduct, honor, military performance, physical fitness, etc. along the way. The cadet has to meet all standards for commissioning. The DoDMERB exam during the application process is just the accession hurdle. Some develop conditions that are caught during the pre-comm medical exam. We have had USNA sponsor family mids have to leave for a variety of unwaiverable (per applicable Service policy) medical reasons, including onset of Type 1 diabetes and a tendency to suffer from heat-related incidents (more than X number of diagnosed heat exhaustion incidents in your history, and you’re out).

Voluntary - any number of reasons. There are usually a few in each class who leave to go on mission and reapply to return in another class. There are ones who go before the 2-year mark, some after. No doubt Admissions has the attrition data sliced and diced in any number of tabled and graphic ways, the when and the why and the how many. Some years the regression analysis dots are further out from center mass.

 

[OldRetSWO]

So, a little more than 200 did not make it. What would be some of the reasons why? Seems like a lot of non graduates for a bunch of smart people.
Thanks.

Attrition of only 200 was way beyond what anyone used to dream of. My class at USNA was the largest to ever start with almost 1600 and we graduated less than 1000. That level of attrition was not considered unusual at the time. Thankfully, attrition at the SAs is much lower now but there are still a significant number of voluntary resignations for a wide variety of reasons.
While I don't necessarily understand many of the decisions, I reflect back that we lose a not-insignificant number from our one-week Boys State every year with many who are no-shows and others who leave for one reason or another and that is a ONE WEEK event.

 

[Falcon74]

If you don’t mind me asking…why did your son feel he’d be a better match at USAF? DD is struggling right now between USMA and USAFA and any insights would be helpful. Thanks!

I made the claim not as a parent, but as a USAFA graduate and USAFA faculty member (aeronautical engineering). I always told him that, despite his athletic accomplishments (3 X TC, 7 V letters, awards) in high school, he was more likely to make his career based on his brain than his brawn. I would not have made that statement with regards to ALL cadets at either USMA or USAFA. My observation was based on my son’s specific situation.

My son was a math and science whiz. He completed the mechanical engineering degree with honors as well as most of the courses for the nuclear engineering major. Clearly, he had well above average engineering potential as a young officer.

Given the scripted nature of early (0-10 years) Army officer careers, he was more likely to make a significant engineering contribution in the USAF (or the USN for that matter) than the Army. The Army’s foremost goal for junior officers is to teach/develop leadership skills. I didn’t observe the same emphasis on leadership development in the early careers of USAF officers.

If he had attended USAFA, he probably would have gone straight to graduate school. Only a handful of major scholarship winners go to grad school after USMA graduation. Even though he branched engineering in the Army, you have to understand that even an English major can branch engineering in the Army which is a clue as to how little traditional engineering work (as defined by the world outside the Army) is done by Army “engineers” early in their careers. Make no mistake – the role of a combat engineer is important, but it doesn’t include areas normally associated with the word “engineering” outside the Army. My comment is not intended to denigrate either Service, but simply an observation regarding the type of work done by an early career Army engineer versus an engineer in the other Services.

The flip side of that coin is that he undoubtedly developed more leadership skills in the Army than he would have as a junior officer in the USAF.

BTW, if you were to ask why I referenced the USAF and not the USN, his chances at cross-commissioning to the USN would have been much less given my 28-year career as a USAF officer.

If you desire more feedback on this subject, please feel free to contact me.

 

[Bellarmine2024!]

I'm very interested in going to to medical school. How many graduates were selected to go at USAFA?

Do you know the numbers for selected med students at Navy and WestPoint?

 

[trailrunner612]

So, a little more than 200 did not make it. What would be some of the reasons why? Seems like a lot of non graduates for a bunch of smart people.
Thanks.

COVID was tough for the class. Many left after the few months while at home. A lot went through the honor violation process after that year due to Chegg and other online resources. Some were kicked out, some left voluntarily after that. Expect Class of 24 to be similar, as their freshman year they had to sit in their rooms all day for the full year due to COVID. Mentally that was exhausting.

 

[flying2024]

If 919 graduated and a little over 500 have assignments, where did the additional 400+ students go - grad school, etc.? That seems like a very high number to not have assignments. Maybe it was just because this was done as of 5/31 and they had not received their assignments yet?

 

[trailrunner612]

If 919 graduated and a little over 500 have assignments, where did the additional 400+ students go - grad school, etc.? That seems like a very high number to not have assignments. Maybe it was just because this was done as of 5/31 and they had not received their assignments yet?

25% of my class went to grad school. All have assignments. The 500 is for those going pilot. The rest are non-rated, aka nearly anything except pilot.