How much does USAFA care about AP test scores?

The big question is what you do with the scores. Should you or should you not test out of classes? Some say yes, some say no. Many threads have been started over this question so why not bring it up again! Any cadets/parents that have been through USAFA or are in USAFA have any thoughts on this?
 
USAFA does not require AP test scores. However, it is something they ask about if you have taken the test. Whether or not you give them is up to you. You can use them to validate some courses, but they have very specific rules about this. You cannot use just AP scores to get out of calculus; you will have to take a math placement test too. Attached is the validation info for 2020-21 school year.


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My DS took the calc AP tests. He scored a 5 on Calc AB and a 3 on Calc BC. He's an astro major. He opted to start back at calc 1 and not provide any scores. He took Calc BC as a junior in HS, and was a little rusty. He's gotten A's in Calc classes so far. He is paying more attention to what he was a little "iffy" on in HS calc. He thinks this strong understanding of calc will only help him through his engineering major.
 
I'm a Senior in HS and an appointee for USAFA '25. I'm currently in Calc AB, I'll be taking the AP test in a few weeks and I'm feeling pretty confident. That said, I was told by my ALO that it might be a good idea to start back at Calc 1 to make first year a bit easier. Is this something that is commonly done by students or is it frowned upon?
 
whitetail317 said:
I'm a Senior in HS and an appointee for USAFA '25. I'm currently in Calc AB, I'll be taking the AP test in a few weeks and I'm feeling pretty confident. That said, I was told by my ALO that it might be a good idea to start back at Calc 1 to make first year a bit easier. Is this something that is commonly done by students or is it frowned upon?
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From what I understand about hopefulmom182, her DS didn't send in scores so he started back at Calc 1 to focus more on the topics he didn't understand. I was thinking about doing that for AP Physics, I'm not overly confident about my knowledge of it so (assuming I'm accepted), I'll start at Physics 1.
 
All AP doesn't need to be sent in during admission, but I think you could send it after you get admitted to validate the classes. That's how most colleges work for APs, and I would assume the same for SAs
 
whitetail317 said:
I'm a Senior in HS and an appointee for USAFA '25. I'm currently in Calc AB, I'll be taking the AP test in a few weeks and I'm feeling pretty confident. That said, I was told by my ALO that it might be a good idea to start back at Calc 1 to make first year a bit easier. Is this something that is commonly done by students or is it frowned upon?
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I think your ALO think it's a good idea since USAFA might teach calculus different from your HS. I know from my school they teach things like integration by parts in AB, and expect you know it in BC, but some other school teach it in BC.
 
I cannot see any disadvantage to starting in Calc 1, even if you are a math genius. It will solidify one's knowledge moving forward, or give you an "easy A" during your freshman year.
 
hopefulmom182 said:
My DS took the calc AP tests. He scored a 5 on Calc AB and a 3 on Calc BC. He's an astro major. He opted to start back at calc 1 and not provide any scores. He took Calc BC as a junior in HS, and was a little rusty. He's gotten A's in Calc classes so far. He is paying more attention to what he was a little "iffy" on in HS calc. He thinks this strong understanding of calc will only help him through his engineering major.
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Ok that makes sense. I’ll probably not submit my AP Physics test score then, at least not to try to get out of taking that class in college. I don’t feel that confident in the class yet. But it doesn’t look bad on the application if I don’t send them, right?
 
i_like_planes said:
Ok that makes sense. I’ll probably not submit my AP Physics test score then, at least not to try to get out of taking that class in college. I don’t feel that confident in the class yet. But it doesn’t look bad on the application if I don’t send them, right?
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I do not think it makes you look bad. However, if they are ok you might think about sending them in anyway. You can always refuse to be put in a higher level class.
 
Jdjuli said:
I do not think it makes you look bad. However, if they are ok you might think about sending them in anyway. You can always refuse to be put in a higher level class.
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This is the advice I have heard in the past. Basically you should do the best you can and allow yourself as many options as possible. You can always validate classes and then choose to take them anyway.
 
While AP classes on your transcript likely inform the admissions board, I do not believe the AP score impacts the admissions process.

AP scores obviously impact your ability to validate classes. For your reference, my DS scored a 5 on Calc AB and BC. He took the USAFA placement tests and was encouraged to take Calc III. He did and got an A+. Not much to do with that info since your high school teacher was different, your study habits different, and he took Calc III during COVID restrictions so I think his study habits were probably great because he couldn't do much of anything else and they had less military training going on.

As far as math goes, I would lean heavily on the placement test results you get from USAFA. They have been doing it for a while and have every hope of placing people correctly and gain nothing from pushing you too hard only to see you on academic probation. You can always choose to not validate if you really want. (My other son at a civilian school had a third option, the school has accelerated Calculus where they cover Calc I, II and III in two semesters - so he gets to pick up room in his schedule, but still make sure his foundation in Calc is solid - maybe USAFA has this too?)

Validating other classes again is up to you. One argument is to validate anything you can and free up your schedule - this is what my son did and it made a double major more practical for him. Another argument is to not validate classes - you repeat material you already had so it should be easier and should get you an A. This works for some, but as many find out, it often results in an unsatisfactory outcome. Another approach is to validate classes that are not in your major and retake classes that are. So if you are an engineering major, validate English, History, Pysch, etc if you can but take Calc and Physics again to build your foundation.

USAFA doesn't really care about your choice - the final outcome is all they really care about it.

I do encourage new cadets to examine the Curriculum handbook with a parent or mentor before BCT. Testing, placement and scheduling occurs during and at the end of BCT. Your head is in a different place and you are prone to doing whatever someone tells you to do. However, you really need to own your academic career and schedule so try to have your academic goals and wish list figured out for first semester. My son got placed in a couple of things that he did not want and was hesitant to speak up/out initially coming out of BCT. Eventually he did though and got the classes he wanted ,but had he been prepared for it, it would have been smoother and less stressful for a few days.
 
USAFA_86 is correct. You shouldn't stress. Before academic year, you will meet with an academic counselor to set up your schedule. That is where you choose your classes. Incidentally with Physics, I have not heard of any of this year's doolies skipping Physics 1, while many skipped Calc 1. It happens to be a forte for my DS, he loves the class and has a 98 in it, but he's in the minority. He said they moved beyond his HS Physics in about 2 weeks.
 
BuckeyeDad20 said:
While AP classes on your transcript likely inform the admissions board, I do not believe the AP score impacts the admissions process.

AP scores obviously impact your ability to validate classes. For your reference, my DS scored a 5 on Calc AB and BC. He took the USAFA placement tests and was encouraged to take Calc III. He did and got an A+. Not much to do with that info since your high school teacher was different, your study habits different, and he took Calc III during COVID restrictions so I think his study habits were probably great because he couldn't do much of anything else and they had less military training going on.

As far as math goes, I would lean heavily on the placement test results you get from USAFA. They have been doing it for a while and have every hope of placing people correctly and gain nothing from pushing you too hard only to see you on academic probation. You can always choose to not validate if you really want. (My other son at a civilian school had a third option, the school has accelerated Calculus where they cover Calc I, II and III in two semesters - so he gets to pick up room in his schedule, but still make sure his foundation in Calc is solid - maybe USAFA has this too?)

Validating other classes again is up to you. One argument is to validate anything you can and free up your schedule - this is what my son did and it made a double major more practical for him. Another argument is to not validate classes - you repeat material you already had so it should be easier and should get you an A. This works for some, but as many find out, it often results in an unsatisfactory outcome. Another approach is to validate classes that are not in your major and retake classes that are. So if you are an engineering major, validate English, History, Pysch, etc if you can but take Calc and Physics again to build your foundation.

USAFA doesn't really care about your choice - the final outcome is all they really care about it.

I do encourage new cadets to examine the Curriculum handbook with a parent or mentor before BCT. Testing, placement and scheduling occurs during and at the end of BCT. Your head is in a different place and you are prone to doing whatever someone tells you to do. However, you really need to own your academic career and schedule so try to have your academic goals and wish list figured out for first semester. My son got placed in a couple of things that he did not want and was hesitant to speak up/out initially coming out of BCT. Eventually he did though and got the classes he wanted ,but had he been prepared for it, it would have been smoother and less stressful for a few days.
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Thanks a lot, this was very helpful. But by, "it often results in an unsatisfactory outcome", do you mean they don't get the grade they wanted or something else?
 
i_like_planes said:
Thanks a lot, this was very helpful. But by, "it often results in an unsatisfactory outcome", do you mean they don't get the grade they wanted or something else?
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The grade and/or it turns out to be as much work as the next level they could have validated too anyway. Folks sometimes think they will repeat it and therefore automagically get an A. What often happens is that they underestimate the class in some way - maybe the professor teaches it differently than they are used to or maybe they don't apply themselves because after all, its the second time through - the result is that they don't do as well as they had hoped. I think we tend to rise to the occasion, but we can also lower ourselves to the occasion so if we plan on not working hard then we do not work hard and we suffer the consequences. This is totally in your control though so as long as you treat it like a proper college class, you should do well.
 
My son took 11 AP courses in HS. I believe the course rigor (and grades in these courses) certainly helped for admissions. His scores helped validate the courses, he also had to test to validate at USAFA (after basic before the semester began) before moving up to higher level courses. He was able to take Calc 3 his freshman year as well as moving up in English and some other courses. You don’t get any credits, but if you’re considering taking more advanced classes from the get-go, the. The scores are important.
 
For admissions: short answer no, not required. The more important ones are did you take all the AP available and do well against that rigor? Knowing the finer points of how APs are handled may help explain the rigor of your school - such as no gatekeeping and no grade replacement.

For USAFA academic placement: Again, you will run the gauntlet of answers and experiences. The validation table in the core curriculum is straightforward, but here is where you have to be very honest with yourself. No one knows your actual content mastery or other circumstances to advise retaking or advancing levels.

Now, beyond APs, if you (and your parent) are sitting here and freaking out that you have no idea what to major in, skimmed the core curriculum and still have no clue, and secretly have no idea what you want to do in the AF even though you managed to talk a good game and get an appointment...don't worry you are not the first!! Remember this - only for some majors do you have to declare as early as possible. If you are like my DD and don't really know except not STEM, not med or law school, not English, not History; not pilot and not a few other jobs...well, that's fine for now! Only a few majors require you to declare early. The good news is whatever major you do pick, it's still the needs of the Air Force! She was very worried at one point that she hadn't self-actualized. But her roommate had the perfect mindset: She didn't join the AF to do one thing, and wanted to do many different things in different places, of which at least one was overseas. For that reason, she wasn't worried about her major, which she also had not decided yet. DD, by process of elimination, has identified a realistic double major compatible with her other goals - broad enough for most jobs and graduate school/national scholarships (nontechnical, heh heh!).
 
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