I was taking a look at the West Point class profile ......

Ant345

Ant345

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I was taking a look at the West Point class profile when I noticed that 3% of candidates were admitted with an SAT score between 400 and 499 in at least one of the two sections, how is this possible?Screenshot_20211022-124849_Chrome.jpg
 
I would ASSUME it goes something like this. Applicant is great in all other areas and coming from a school district that he may have even be top 10% in his class. That district is just not producing great numbers due to resources. Then this applicant is routed through prep school. Also don't forget about priors who may have been out of school for awhile but are high achievers in the fleet.
 
Because they must bring something stellar, unique or desirable in the many other categories that are assessed as part of the “whole person” concept, which you have no way of seeing. Some people do not test well. The SAs have been at this a loooonnnnng time. You have to trust their class-building expertise. There is something about those candidates that makes USMA believe they will be able to stay the course, get through the academics and have the potential to become fine officers.

You can drive yourself crazy by hearing about someone getting an LOA or an offer of appointment, and you know those people have a lower (fill in blank) than you or fewer (blank) than you. The Navy says “keep your eyes in the boat.” I am sure the Army has an equivalent.
 
It’s also a good reminder to apply!! I often think that people here on the forums especially, reading all stellar academics/resumes/ etc posted on the SAF’s, or heard about elsewhere, can be dissuaded from trying.

It’s MORE than one data point, applied to everyone. It’s truly the WCS of the individual person, and what admissions is putting together that year, with a dash of MOC’s. It’s a secret recipe, tweaked every cycle.

Academics are NOT the entire picture. If you have a desire, apply. Let XXX SA decide what to do with you. You may be surprised with the outcome 🙌
 
Ant345 said:
I was taking a look at the West Point class profile when I noticed that 3% of candidates were admitted with an SAT score between 400 and 499 in at least one of the two sections, how is this possible?
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It's possible because academic prowess is only part of the admissions rubric. The service academies value both brains and brawn, as they must, and the mixture of these traits, along with leadership potential, forms an incoming class of cadets/mids whose individual components can differ significantly but whose collective makeup meets the military objective of producing capable officers.

I've posted elsewhere that the rubric used to determine academy appointments, by design, does not value academics the same way civilian colleges weight them. Until he was fully into his major, our son was underwhelmed by the academics at West Point. The brain trust is there, but cadets sometimes have to seek it out. When he discussed this with his department head, the LTC explained to him that only about one third of any incoming class is selected for academic chops*; the other 2/3rds are chosen for other equally shiny traits. All are academically capable, all pass the academic bar, but only that third is what you might label “scholarly.” Our son learned to value those other critical equally shiny traits in his band of brothers very highly. The corps needs a balance of all of them in a way civilian colleges do not as their missions differ vastly. The Army puts it this way (as inscribed in stone at West Point):

The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. -Thucydides-

The service academies are looking to produce capable officers for each branch of our armed services. It takes a certain kind of kid to go this route, and those kids don’t always look like the applicants to the usual civilian suspects. If academics rather than service is the main concern of any applicant’s college evaluation, then the SAs probably aren’t for them, not because that applicant can’t be academically satisfied (s/he can) but because getting through a service academy and the years of service that follow takes a gut commitment to something else.

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*The 1/3 that is chosen for scholarship, though, is as rarefied a pool as you'll find anywhere. These are the kids who turned down Ivies and equivalents and who earn Rhodes, Marshall, Truman, Fulbright and other scholarships at the same rate as those top-tier civilian universities. Because these students are mixed in with others whose talents are stronger on the other equally important legs of the military stool, the GPA and test statistics of the academies don't align well with those civilian universities--and aren't meant to.
 
How do the kids with high scores struggle but a kid who doesn't know Algebra II concepts and reads poorly can succeed? I've asked this before and got a snarky response.
 
Pretty simple. The field-grades and generals responsible for admissions prioritize diversity and sports over Officer excellence. They just don't want you to think of it that way.

Data:
usmadata.com

On Admissions Excellence

Reminder: LTC Heffington’s letter and Supe’s letter LTC Heffington says that The Superintendent refuses to enforce admissions standards or the cadet Honor Code, while t…
usmadata.com usmadata.com
usmadata.com

On Diversity as Strength

Reminder: LTC Heffington’s letter and Superintendent’s responses: The Academy leadership says, in response to LTC Heffington’s concerns about a degraded Academy, …
usmadata.com usmadata.com
usmadata.com

Corps Squad Athletes and Test Scores

Reminder: LTC Heffington’s letter and LTG Caslen’s letters LTC Heffington made a specific, and fortunately for us, easily and empirically test-able claim that: Every fall, the Superin…
usmadata.com usmadata.com
 
lipton_hot_tea said:
Even if they are athletes and the low scores are acceptable for admission, how do they actually function in class to receive passing grades?
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They don't. They're pushed through to graduation through relaxed standards. LTC Heffington noted this in his letter a few years back.
 
Old Enlisted Marine said:
GRIT!
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I'm not saying a kid with low scores isn't hard working. Before applying my ds worked through math he was deficient in so he could 1. Have a competitive math score and 2. Be prepared for the higher math required at SA. You can't skip though. All of the grit in the world doesn't let you jump from junoir high grade math to Calculus and pass. If you don't read well you need to correct that before being able to analyze a text and write a paper. My point is how are they skipping these steps?
 
Very simple explanation - USMAPS.

Candidates from the prep school generally do not retake standardized tests. The reported scores are from tests while in high school. A requirement for admission to USMAPS is to be academically disqualified from USMA, and test scores are a large part of that determination.

After a year of intense preparation in Math and English, standardized test scores are irrelevant. Classroom performance at USMAPS is a better predictor of ability to perform at the college level than old test scores.

The majority of those at USMAPS are recruited athletes and soldiers.
 
NJROTC-CC said:
Football
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So true. I have a child who is not a 3 or 4 star football player but is being recruited at FCS and D2 level. He would love to play for Army football. He has gotten little to no interest from Army recruiting. He's going to try to do it the hard way by getting admitted and then see if he can latch onto team. As a result, we both watch Army recruiting pretty deeply on social media. You can see the twitter accounts of Army signees and some would make you shake your head.

usmadata said:
They don't. They're pushed through to graduation through relaxed standards. LTC Heffington noted this in his letter a few years back.
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Or the leave. Many of the recruits come for a visit, get the blue chip admission and have no idea what they are getting into. I don't know if the number is available but I'd love to see the stats on the number of football players that come through prep and even direct that leave.
 
Also, for comparison purposes note that few prestigious colleges publish the full range of test scores, rather relying on the 25th, 50th, 75th percentiles. Look closely enough and you will find equally eye-popping stats at other top colleges. Even the Ivies have to fill football and hockey rosters.
 
Lots of examples given about athletes, prep school and other things. The other one is prior enlisted. Most will go to prep school, but they could of had decent high school grades and just not done well on the SAT/ACT and never retook them at prep. It doesn’t mean a kid with a 400-499 is walking in the doors to USMA directly. They want appointees to succeed and graduate, a 400 is not setting someone up for success without some other prep activities.
 
lipton_hot_tea said:
How do the kids with high scores struggle but a kid who doesn't know Algebra II concepts and reads poorly can succeed?
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In addition to the answers about Prep that you already got, I'll add that there are layers of difficulty baked into many of the toughest classes. At USNA, that NAPS grad who had a below 500 SAT math score will probably NOT end up in the higher level Calculus class. When I was a mid, I recall there being three different courses for some of the most difficult classes - such as Physics where there was regular Physics (AKA Physics for Poets) which was certainly hard enough, tougher level Physics (Engineering Physics??) which was a LOT harder and an upper level Physics for Physics Majors which was reputed to be REALLY hard. Youngster classes like Thermodynamics which we all took at some level and then Second Class Year Electrical Engineering also had multi levels of the course and while the lower levels were indeed difficult, the upper levels were frighteningly complex.
 
NavyHoops said:
Lots of examples given about athletes, prep school and other things. The other one is prior enlisted. Most will go to prep school, but they could of had decent high school grades and just not done well on the SAT/ACT and never retook them at prep. It doesn’t mean a kid with a 400-499 is walking in the doors to USMA directly. They want appointees to succeed and graduate, a 400 is not setting someone up for success without some other prep activities.
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Exactly. We have had a few in the USNA sponsor family who had not-the-best HS scores come in via prep or NAPS, and they had zero problem outside the norm with USNA academics.
 
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