is there a pay difference between NA grad and NROTC grad

N

navyfamilyof4

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upon commissioning , just wondering if there is a pay gap or is everyone equal on day 1?

and then over time is there a difference?
 
mcfamilyof4 said:
upon commissioning , just wondering if there is a pay gap or is everyone equal on day 1?

and then over time is there a difference?
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Upon commissioning, everyone's an O-1. Same pay grade.

Over time (all things being equal), pay stays equal as promotions happen. Opportunity may differ for Academy vs. ROTC grads (no bitterness here :rolleyes:), but that's debatable.
 
No difference in pay for commissioning source. Pay tables are available on line. They are driven by rank and years and service. If someone was prior enlisted before commissioning they can receive higher pay with the O-1E pay grade.
 
out of curiosity since academy cadets are active duty military do they get TIS credit on their pay once commissioned?
 
I’ve got a friend who went to USMA, served 27 years, and retired as an O6.

A year or so after retirement, took a GS-15 job.

He “bought back” the 4 years of active duty service while a cadet at USMA. He was allowed to buy back those years because they were active duty BUT weren’t used toward his military retirement.

So he served 6 years as a GS-15. When he retired, it was as if he served 10 years as a GS-15 (6 years actual + 4 years buy back).

Now he’s got a military retirement check of 27 years service and govt civilian retirement check of 10 years served.

Can’t do that “buy back” thing as a NROTC mid.
 
One of our USNA sponsor family alumni spent 7 years on AD. Became an FBI agent, got credit/buyback option for 11 good years toward Fed retirement. The FBI Academy roommate, AROTC grad, got 6 years AD credit but no AROTC time, since it wasn’t AD.
 
GoCubbies said:
Now he’s got a military retirement check of 27 years service and govt civilian retirement check of 10 years served.
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You can not collect two pensions from the federal government. They do a consolidation of the FERS and Military to create a single pension. I think you still get your SSN since that's structurally/legally different. I think this was changed back in the early 90's. My dad retired in 95.
 
LurkingQuietly said:
You can not collect two pensions from the federal government. They do a consolidation of the FERS and Military to create a single pension. I think you still get your SSN since that's structurally/legally different. I think this was changed back in the early 90's. My dad retired in 95.
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Not true. I know many people who end up with dual pensions from the federal government. The key is that you can't have the same time count toward more than one pension.
Typical: Service Academy 4 yrs and then 20 on Active Duty and upon leaving active duty (age 42), becomes a civil servant for 20 more years. Retires from civil service at age 62 with 20 yrs in Civil Service plus buys back the four at the service academy (federal time not included in military pension) and thus has a 20 year military pension plus a 24 year Civil Service Pension.
And yes, Social Security is not affected/still eligible for SS.
 
OldRetSWO said:
Not true. I know many people who end up with dual pensions from the federal government. The key is that you can't have the same time count toward more than one pension.
Typical: Service Academy 4 yrs and then 20 on Active Duty and upon leaving active duty (age 42), becomes a civil servant for 20 more years. Retires from civil service at age 62 with 20 yrs in Civil Service plus buys back the four at the service academy (federal time not included in military pension) and thus has a 20 year military pension plus a 24 year Civil Service Pension.
And yes, Social Security is not affected/still eligible for SS.
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This aligns with what I know, from retired military who then did a full Fed career. But rules change, there could be grandfathering (think of the changes in military retirement plans we have seen over the last 50 years), so there may well be different things being allowed.
 
OldRetSWO said:
Not true. I know many people who end up with dual pensions from the federal government. The key is that you can't have the same time count toward more than one pension.
Typical: Service Academy 4 yrs and then 20 on Active Duty and upon leaving active duty (age 42), becomes a civil servant for 20 more years. Retires from civil service at age 62 with 20 yrs in Civil Service plus buys back the four at the service academy (federal time not included in military pension) and thus has a 20 year military pension plus a 24 year Civil Service Pension.
And yes, Social Security is not affected/still eligible for SS.
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damm, this was my exact plan.. HAHA
 
NavyHoops said:
No. It does not count towards their years. Now if they get out and become a federal civilian employee it does count.
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This is not completely accurate. Under the prior retirement model, a SA grad would receive credit for their 4 years of school at the point of retirement. 20 years became 24. However, 16 did not become 20 to trigger retirement eligibility. I am out of touch on the current model, but if TIS is part of the calculation, you may want to confirm with the regs about how it would be applied.
 
There is one typically one initial difference in pay between service academy and ROTC grads. Service academy grads are on active duty and are paid at the 0-1 rate immediately upon graduation. An ROTC graduate will typically not begin receiving pay until they start active duty training. While this is probably not enough to sway a decision, it is good to know that ROTC grads will be payless for a few months after graduation.
 
shiner said:
This is not completely accurate. Under the prior retirement model, a SA grad would receive credit for their 4 years of school at the point of retirement. 20 years became 24. However, 16 did not become 20 to trigger retirement eligibility. I am out of touch on the current model, but if TIS is part of the calculation, you may want to confirm with the regs about how it would be applied.
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If you mean the academy time counting toward military retirement, that fable has been around for a very long time. As someone who entered in the mid-70's and was interviewed by/served under people from the 40's and 50's, I too had heard this from many but strangely, nobody was ever able to find a way to do it.
 
I apologize if I have been furthering that widely spread rumor. Google did yield something helpful here. It depends... - GAO held that service as a cadet or midshipman at a service academy is creditable for the purpose of determining eligibility for retirement under enlisted retirement but is not creditable for a member retiring under commissioned officer retirement.


"Furthermore, we have· construed service at the academies as active Federal service. " - hence why you can buy the time back as a federal employee.

As with anything pertaining to government policy - its not exactly black and white

rme7d8 said:
Academy time only counts towards Civ retirement

So the real answer is -- it depends....

If you are retiring under Title 10 (military) -- the time at academy DOES NOT COUNT as active duty -

If you retire under Title 5 (Civilian) the Academy time is "active federal service"-- and counts -- but only once - -that is -- if you are collecting a Military retirement check - the time does not count again (none of your military time counts towards a civ retirement does if you are military retired/annuitant) . PS - you have to make a contribution to make the time count

http://www.opm.gov/retire/pre/fers/servicecredit.asp#military

Also - if you are not retired military (annuitant) your active time (including Academy time) counts towards Leave category
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