Ivy League/UC's vs. Academies

I've heard is said that 1/3 of a SA class could get into an IVY and 1/3 of an IVY class could get into a SA. Personally, I have no idea and I doubt anyone else does either
 
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My son (high academics and a recruited athlete) had offers at 3 Ivies and MIT. He picked 3 (and USNA) to have recruiting weekends at this past Fall. He went to Navy first and then the others. He loved the visits, different pros and cons for each, different kinds of people, emphasis, everything. After the visits he realized he wanted what he considered the “whole package” of USNA and the life as an officer after. He said he knew that he would always wonder what he was missing at USNA if he went to one of the Ivies/MIT, but he knew he would never wonder about what he was missing at Princeton upon choosing USNA. He committed to USNA the week after his last visit and then told all these other schools NO.
 
FiveByFive said:
Now it will be all but over soon for the test score world:

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That will be interesting. Having lived in two states while my kids are going through High School, the grading policies alone alters GPA significantly which is why I think the tests do help. In our case we went to a tougher policy and honestly tougher course work.

I understand there are kids that just aren’t good test takers, and therefore the test can hurt some people, but I always viewed it as kind of an equalization or comparability metric.

School A 4.0 average: SAT 1500
School B 4.0 average: SAT 1100

The above is not meant to represent a person just more of School Comparability.

The analytical part of my brain just can’t compute the end of that exam, but I have zero experience in college admissions.
 
georgiemason said:
My son (high academics and a recruited athlete) had offers at 3 Ivies and MIT. He picked 3 (and USNA) to have recruiting weekends at this past Fall. He went to Navy first and then the others. He loved the visits, different pros and cons for each, different kinds of people, emphasis, everything. After the visits he realized he wanted what he considered the “whole package” of USNA and the life as an officer after. He said he knew that he would always wonder what he was missing at USNA if he went to one of the Ivies/MIT, but he knew he would never wonder about what he was missing at Princeton upon choosing USNA. He committed to USNA the week after his last visit and then told all these other schools NO.
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Cool, what sport? Is he already accepted or in the process? I like the logic he went through. Sounds pretty mature for his age.
 
DS was accepted to an Ivy and SA's. He had the SA's first and was super excited but then the Ivy with ROTC scholarship came in and he had serious thoughts about the Ivy. The temptation was that he could have a "normal" college experience. I quickly reminded that if he went to Ivy he would have loans as ROTC does not cover R&B and Ivy did not offer additional money. So he would have same commitment of 5 year payback AND loans.

I also pointed out that he could go to Ivy school for Grad school but could not go to USNA for grad school.

He ultimately chose the USNA because he wanted to be Naval officer and be with the best.
 
LT360 said:
DS was accepted to an Ivy and SA's. He had the SA's first and was super excited but then the Ivy with ROTC scholarship came in and he had serious thoughts about the Ivy. The temptation was that he could have a "normal" college experience. I quickly reminded that if he went to Ivy he would have loans as ROTC does not cover R&B and Ivy did not offer additional money. So he would have same commitment of 5 year payback AND loans.

I also pointed out that he could go to Ivy school for Grad school but could not go to USNA for grad school.

He ultimately chose the USNA because he wanted to be Naval officer and be with the best.
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My ds is coming to the same conclusion. We anticipate he will be admitted to an Ivy in the new year and already has AFROTC and AROTC scholarships. Because of ROTC, he already has a full-ride to one of our state flagships. He already decided that he desires an SA over his dream Ivy. He can't go to grad school at an SA but can at the Ivy so he's not losing out on the Ivy ultimately. (His dad went to WP and then to an Ivy for grad school.)

Now with the full-ride to the state school, he sees that as more prudent than paying R&B at the Ivy. He and DH were crunching salary numbers between state and Ivy the other night. I'll be excited if he gets an appointment to an SA and the decision is easy.
 
LT360 said:
He ultimately chose the USNA because he wanted to be Naval officer and be with the best.
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May I respectfully say “be with the best” should never imply ROTC or OCS/OTS source cadets, midshipmen and officers are in any way “lesser.”

The SA leadership does try to instill a balance of pride in taking the full immersion experience route with its associated challenges and guard against slipping into a sense of smug elitism, the worst stereotype of an SA grad. All commissioning sources will produce a range of bad-to-best officers. I experienced this as a subordinate, a peer and a commanding officer. The sailors and Marines won’t care where their officer got their degree and commission. They will care if they are fairly treated, well led and respected for the role they play. That is taught and modeled at all commissioning sources. I have always said SA grads are by far the most professionally prepared to do well in their respective services, but though ROTC and OCS/OTS grads may have a little catch-up to do, after about 1-2 years the SA effect has worn off. Of course, the bonds built at the SA are one of the best things about that experience and creates an instant network, but that has nothing to do with quality of the officer. As a CO, I had outstanding officers from USNA, as well as awful ones and everything inbetween, but I could say the same about ones from NROTC, OCS and other commissioning paths.
 
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LT360 said:
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He ultimately chose the USNA because he wanted to be Naval officer and be with the best.
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My best friend is a roofing contractor …. Some of my other best friends are brick masons and farmers.

They’re all rich human beings in every way.
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RedDragon said:
Neither one of my SA grads would have made the initial screening for any Ivy…ACT too low. Both did well at their respective academies, even with a few bumps along the way…. Both are doing well as junior officers. I am a true believer in the process the academies use when seeking those likely to survive the SA cauldron and those likely to become good officers.

And yes, with a nod to Hornetguy, vet resumes rise to the top of my pile and always will.
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Would mind saying what your grads ACT scores were? Thanks
 
I recommend going to KP Spotlight, a 12 minute vignette by Capt Robert Johnson. 6 minutes on KP. 6 minutes on why one should go or should not go to any Academy.
 
Daughter went USNA and is now in Ivy grad school. One of the people in her group is USNA SEAL. It can be done.
 
AF6872 said:
Daughter went USNA and is now in Ivy grad school. One of the people in her group is USNA SEAL. It can be done.
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NAPS-2-USNA-2-MIT-2-ISS_Commander

ISS astronaut Chris Cassidy center (NAPS, Naval Academy, MIT) along with the 2 new SpaceX Dragon capsule astronauts to the right of center, and the 2 Russian cosmonauts on ISS to the left of center.

Chris Cassidy spoke to the NAPSters at their online graduation from the ISS this year.

 
This is a great debate triggered by the OP on the same topic we get asked every year. And certainly have been asked before this forum was established.

Nevertheless, the response remains the same. In the view of the public at large and in the view of Ivy League graduates and civilian employers around the world, students and graduates at the Naval Academy, West Point, and Air Force Academy have the same respect of an Ivy League graduate. In fact, with a special celebrity status and reverence that Ivy League graduates don't get.

Ivy League graduates often get the stamp of privilege and intellectual respect for their accomplishments and association with an Ivy School. But the Service Academy graduates always get the stamp of admiration and respect, in addition to academic rigor at their academies. Ivy and Academy graduates may even seem alike, but they are clearly different. This is because each Service Academy represents the best of their service and the best students chosen from each districts in the country. While, we often debate which is the best Ivy League and whether MIT, Stanford, CalTech, Chicago, Duke and even UCLA and Berkeley are equally good or even better than some of the Ivy League, this debate is put to rest when we debate each Service Academy and their Super Power that endures in the minds of the public.

Nevertheless, I do have to say with great pride that Navy did Beat Army last weekend and clearly Navy is the better Academy this year! This is from a guy who championed Army all his life before his DS and DD went Navy.

Be proud where you land and serve. It doesn't have to be at an SA, Ivy League where you begin your journey. Many led successful careers, went on to excellent graduate schools, graduating from Senior Military Colleges, ROTCs, and OCS. People will salute you for your service and for the flag and the rank you wear on your uniform.
 
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Dr. Strange Love said:
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My best friend is a roofing contractor …. Some of my other best friends are brick masons and farmers.

They’re all rich human beings in every way.
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Pardon the interruption to the OP but @Dr. Strange Love your reply to my post has me confused. I don’t believe I disparaged roofers, bricklayers or farmers? I also don’t think I would as I have the same type of friends and am one generation removed from farmers.
 
LT360 said:
Pardon the interruption to the OP but @Dr. Strange Love your reply to my post has me confused. I don’t believe I disparaged roofers, bricklayers or farmers? I also don’t think I would as I have the same type of friends and am one generation removed from farmers.
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Bad hair day over here …. Sorry. It’s not about you. It’s more about my peeves.

It came down to use/combination of 3 things … USNA, Officer, and Best … in one short sentence. And especially, I never understood the word “Best” and why it adds value …. It’s a quality mechanism which is very superficial, and doesn’t get to the core attributes that are being measured.

I want the word “Best” to go away. There is no “best” anything in my vocabulary.
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HopefulDad2026 said:
That will be interesting. Having lived in two states while my kids are going through High School, the grading policies alone alters GPA significantly which is why I think the tests do help. In our case we went to a tougher policy and honestly tougher course work.

I understand there are kids that just aren’t good test takers, and therefore the test can hurt some people, but I always viewed it as kind of an equalization or comparability metric.

School A 4.0 average: SAT 1500
School B 4.0 average: SAT 1100

The above is not meant to represent a person just more of School Comparability.

The analytical part of my brain just can’t compute the end of that exam, but I have zero experience in college admissions.
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This is an article that triggers a great debate about the need for test scores.

Simply put, when the school has test optional, it means they expect to receive your BEST test scores. So if you do not have your BEST perceived test score for the school, do not submit. Test blind means, do not send test scores, PERIOD. This is the current policy of UCs through 2025.

As a rule of thumb, if you have test scores in the range of 34-36 on ACT and 1500-1600 on SAT, do send those scores, except test blind schools. The prevailing admissions standard at the IVY and schools in the US News ranked in top 20 is that you maxed out on your testing. So don't try to retake and resubmit if you have 34 or 1500.

At the SAs, if you have 34-36 on ACT or 1500-1600 on SAT, you will be considered for an LOA if you meet other competitive criteria like: quality of your classes (i.e. AP, STEM) and GPA/rank, Leadership, Athletics, Special Talent and awards, your District Competitiveness, quality of your personal experience and personal statement, and quality of your candidacy to other SAs. You will need Nom and Mecial quals for a full appointment but not for LOA.

Once you have high enough test scores, spend your time on other important areas. If you cannot break the high test score barrier, then move on to other things that matter and stop preparing for tests. However, for the SAs, you have to still submit test scores unless you can demonstrate you were prevented from taking tests due to test center closures in your area. However, you do not have to drive 100 miles to take your test.

Lastly, APs have become important to competitive colleges. So if your school offers AP, take those classes because the expectation is there you should be taking AP classes and submit scores if you have competitive scores. Again, you have the option to submit or not submit AP scores. But the expectation is there for you to challenge yourself!
 
Dr. Strange Love said:
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Bad hair day over here …. Sorry. It’s not about you. It’s more about my peeves.

It came down to use/combination of 3 things … USNA, Officer, and Best … in one short sentence. And especially, I never understood the word “Best” and why it adds value …. It’s a quality mechanism which is very superficial, and doesn’t get to the core attributes that are being measured.

I want the word “Best” to go away. There is no “best” anything in my vocabulary.
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We all have bad hair days. Thank you for explanation. But I disagree on “best” as I do have the Best DW.
 
ders_dad said:
Maybe this is not a popular opinion these days but, you’ve got your whole life to climb the corporate ladder - go out there and have an adventure while you can. There will be jobs for you when you’re done. Go write some good stories you can tell your grandchildren.
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I love this answer the most. Thank you. 🫶👐🙌
 
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