Latest Hegseth Order

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triplerole07

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SECDEF Order
Just saw this latest, which includes guidance to not consider sex on top of race and ethnicity in service academy admissions.

Curious for others’ thoughts. This seems to me that it would significantly disadvantage women applicants depending on how their CFA score is treated. Feels like a step backward.
 
What does "exclusively on merit" mean? Like genuine question. What is considered merit? Isn't this up for inteperation? One may say that a blue chipped football player was not admitted exclusively on "merit". I am not saying this, hut the argument could be made. Just my $.02.
 
"Hegseth's memo goes on to say that admission to the academies will be based "exclusively on merit," because "selecting anyone but the best erodes lethality, our warfighting readiness, and undercuts the culture of excellence in our armed forces.""

So, where does that place athletes? Or consideration given to applicants of grads or retirees? Or children of politicians? There'd have been hell to pay if Speaker Johnson's kid didn't get in.
 
unkown1961 said:
"Hegseth's memo goes on to say that admission to the academies will be based "exclusively on merit," because "selecting anyone but the best erodes lethality, our warfighting readiness, and undercuts the culture of excellence in our armed forces.""

So, where does that place athletes? Or consideration given to applicants of grads or retirees? Or children of politicians? There'd have been hell to pay if Speaker Johnson's kid didn't get in.
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You bring up good questions! Does releasing athletes to professional leagues undercut the culture of excellence in the armed forces? How do the academies adhere to Title IX or are they good if they use the athletics to cover looking at sex? How do you quantify “merit” across interviews, letters of recommendation, and different GPA systems?
 
futurecadet29 said:
What does "exclusively on merit" mean? Like genuine question. What is considered merit? Isn't this up for inteperation? One may say that a blue chipped football player was not admitted exclusively on "merit". I am not saying this, hut the argument could be made. Just my $.02.
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Good question, I really don’t know!
 
Don’t assume that females will be at a disadvantage because of the CFA. Plenty of ladies out score males on the test.

Also, remember the memo may state something, but how a SA calculates scoring is another. The SAs will figure this out like they have for a very long time.
 
Merit-based doesn’t necessitate elimination of gendered standards.

Not considering sex for qualification may mean not seeking a desired gender quota.

But scoring could still be gender-based in both scenarios.
 
unkown1961 said:
"Hegseth's memo goes on to say that admission to the academies will be based "exclusively on merit," because "selecting anyone but the best erodes lethality, our warfighting readiness, and undercuts the culture of excellence in our armed forces.""

So, where does that place athletes? Or consideration given to applicants of grads or retirees? Or children of politicians? There'd have been hell to pay if Speaker Johnson's kid didn't get in.
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Children of grads (and other vets who do not stay for a career do not get any special "consideration". Children of career military people have another nomination available to them. This will not change under SecDef's order. Same thing with children of politicians and I personally know of some children of politicians who were DISADVANTAGED due to having fewer noms available to them since their parent could/would not nominate them. I've known/met a few politician kids who got in and they were very deserving. One example - a senior government official (and classmate) whose son got in on a fleet appointment after serving in the USMC. Ended up as USNA Brigade Commander and a Rhodes Scholar.
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Bottom Line: Don't assume that they didn't get in on their own merit.
 
NavyHoops said:
Also, remember the memo may state something, but how a SA calculates scoring is another. The SAs will figure this out like they have for a very long time.
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Think this nails it...as the political pendulum swings the academies seem to continue to navigate through....
 
Asgard said:
Ultimately you aren’t looking for leaders who can do X pull-ups. You are looking at the badass scale. And a woman who does 8 pull-ups is often more badass than a guy who can do 9.
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You may be interested to know that a female doing 7-8 pullups is quite common (at least in the Marine Corps). Not sure your statement is a good comparison though...I would consider a man that can only do 9 pull ups to have a very minimum level of fitness.
 
Just make everything public / publish it to the internet.

Redact the names. Replace them with numbers.

In my class, I think we started with 1,391.

So just for example, USAFA could publish a list next year that starts out with:

30-0001

And goes all the way to

30-1391

Then include a column for race, sex, high school cumulative high school GPA, high school class rank (percentage), ACT score, SAT score, candidate fitness assessment score, boy scout/girl scout status, Civil Air Patrol status, sports participation status, nomination source, etc.

Then in June or July of 2030 that same web page (or excel spreadsheet) gets updated with that cadet’s / mid’s Academy cumulative GPA, their academic major, their academic minor, their class rank, intercollegiate sports participation, cadet or mid leadership position, and their officer AFSC.

As a quick side note….I got a hold of some form from the Commandant’s “shop”. It was just one page long, and one section of it had my academic composite score (ACS) on it. A couple of different people had told me that you take the ACS, subtract 300 from it, and then divide by 1,000. That was supposed to be a predictor of what your highest GPA would be. For me, it was dead nuts on.

Also as another side note….via various internet forums over the years, I couldn’t begin go tell you how many times I have heard / read , “I would have been West Point class of 2005, but my dad wasn’t friends with Senator such-And-Such like John Doe was.”

Getting all that info published to the web would put an end to all those woulda-coulda-shoulda stories.
 
USMC Crayons said:
You may be interested to know that a female doing 7-8 pullups is quite common (at least in the Marine Corps). Not sure your statement is a good comparison though...I would consider a man that can only do 9 pull ups to have a very minimum level of fitness.
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The USAFA PFT max for pullups was 21.

I max’ed it every semester. Or every other semester.

My firstie year, the grader lost count, and said “That’s enough! “. My roommate was right behind me in line and he went “Pssst….hey, that was twenty-seven.” while I was walking up to the next event.
 
A1Janitor said:
I bet there are plenty of D1 athletes that can’t do more than 9 pull-ups.
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As the parent of a D-1 athlete, I can tell you that "athlete" can be quite misleading depending on the school/sport. Of course there are exceptions for people that maybe throw the shot put, or happen to be a defensive lineman, etc. but my original statement still stands. I guess to clarify, if you are within the male height and weight standards for the military and you can only do 9 pullups, that's not very good.
 
USMC Crayons said:
As the parent of a D-1 athlete, I can tell you that "athlete" can be quite misleading depending on the school/sport. Of course there are exceptions for people that maybe throw the shot put, or happen to be a defensive lineman, etc. but my original statement still stands. I guess to clarify, if you are within the male height and weight standards for the military and you can only do 9 pullups, that's not very good.
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AGREED!
 
OldRetSWO said:
Children of grads (and other vets who do not stay for a career do not get any special "consideration". Children of career military people have another nomination available to them. This will not change under SecDef's order. Same thing with children of politicians and I personally know of some children of politicians who were DISADVANTAGED due to having fewer noms available to them since their parent could/would not nominate them. I've known/met a few politician kids who got in and they were very deserving. One example - a senior government official (and classmate) whose son got in on a fleet appointment after serving in the USMC. Ended up as USNA Brigade Commander and a Rhodes Scholar.
.
Bottom Line: Don't assume that they didn't get in on their own merit.
Click to expand...
Based on this statement you would lead me to believe politicians are HONEST ! 🤦‍♂️
 
USMC Crayons said:
As the parent of a D-1 athlete, I can tell you that "athlete" can be quite misleading depending on the school/sport. Of course there are exceptions for people that maybe throw the shot put, or happen to be a defensive lineman, etc. but my original statement still stands. I guess to clarify, if you are within the male height and weight standards for the military and you can only do 9 pullups, that's not very good.
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At USAFA, for males the min pullup count was just 7.

I think for females it was just 1 pullup.

There was a recruited football player in the class of 1997 who was in my flight of basics when I was 2nd BCT cadre. He could not do one single solitary pullup.

Different services emphasize different things.

Anybody want to venture a guess as to how many pullups I had to do as an Air Force “Ell Tee” and a very junior Captain?
 
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